PlanetCatfish

What is my catfish? :: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Author Sanplec

2010-09-05T09:42:57+00:00

Good morning everyone,

Yesterday I've bought three pl*co's in Belgium as L260.
I was looking at them this morning and they where not colored as a L260.
This is why I doubt this is L260, please have a look.

Plec 1

I think this might be a mopskopf?

Plec 2

At the background one of my subadult L260, you can see different color of the stripes

Plec 3

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-05T09:47:39+00:00

How big are they? L411 gets much bigger than L260.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by Sanplec

2010-09-05T10:00:12+00:00

@ Mats:
Not fully grown, they're 7 cm
My subadult L260 has more yellow of golden stripes then these plecs

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-05T10:42:03+00:00

I do believe they are L411 at that size and colour.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by wayneg

2010-09-05T11:49:49+00:00

the top pic looks like it has a snubnose

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by Sanplec

2010-09-05T12:00:55+00:00

wayneg wrote:the top pic looks like it has a snubnose

I agree, the German call it a mopskopf

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by jbmm

2010-09-05T18:27:48+00:00

no spots, no l260

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by claro

2010-09-05T20:36:33+00:00

Hi,

for me it is L411.

Milan

What is my catfish? :: Re: New pl*co's, L260 or L411? :: Reply by pleco22

2010-09-05T21:10:12+00:00

Hi,
sorry to say, but this is Hypancistrus sp. L 411 and not L 260. Body shape, fin and pattern is typical. L 260 is blurred with L 410, so even when the pattern looks different, there are many hybrids out there. Real L 260 are very rare.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Help Please! It's an L number! After that I'm Lost! :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T16:19:31+00:00

definate flash pl*co

What is my catfish? :: Re: Wild Synodontis from Tanganyika, need help ID'ing please :: Reply by worton[pl]

2010-09-03T19:05:34+00:00

Hey,

I have a single specimen of probably this species in my tank for about 2 years now. It hasn't grown at all. Absence of growth rull out S. tanganyicae I guess. My specimen is 7-8 cm TL.
Here is a photo of my fish - comes from vicinity of crocodile island as well.

http://www.suephoto.com/index.php/galeria/index/5/343

Evert van Ammelrooy mentioned few times when we have met that in shores of crocodile island are numerous species of synos which he has not seen anywhere in a lake.

Regards.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Wild Synodontis from Tanganyika, need help ID'ing please :: Reply by MikesRifts

2010-09-03T20:46:18+00:00

Worton,
thanks for the link
the pics on Sue Photo, how accurate are they?
Its looks like I have tanganyicae, ilebrevis, polli and irsacae.
So the original estimate of 4 species by the exporter maybe right.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Wild Synodontis from Tanganyika, need help ID'ing please :: Reply by worton[pl]

2010-09-04T15:03:47+00:00

Hey,

all catfishes and mastacembelidae on Sue's page were identified by me in most cases after posting photos here and shorter or longer discussion, which in not obvious species usually ended like "probably this" or "maybe that" - that's the way discussion about not common tanganyikan synos usually ends.' So catfishes on Sue's page shouldn't be threated like 100% right ids. There are a lot of undescribed species in a lake and probably they are still during the creation phase in Lake Tanganyika - we won't be always able to say what is what and we just have to live with that . In last few years I've met few persons that regulary visit lake Tanganyika and they always says that there is much more species than a hobbyst may be aware of. Good rule is to avoid hybridisation in aquarium, so keep familiary looking species in different tanks.

Also in c*****ds cases exporters are interested in some varieties of particular species because they sell the best - for example N. leleupi - there is a lot of spotted specimens in a lake but we see only yellows - they sell much better than dull colored, spotted fish. In catfishes exporters do not know much more than that syno granulosus is expensive and multipunctata will sell for sure so we may see more different varieties than in c*****ds.

Anyway you have nice synos - enjoy them .

Have you seen this movie about breeding S. polli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Eq-mL-hIE
it will give you an idea how they may spawn.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Wild Synodontis from Tanganyika, need help ID'ing please :: Reply by Richard B

2010-09-06T13:00:38+00:00

I have a lot of reservations about the ID of Ilebrevis - the pic in Seegars looks very different (presuming that fish is accurately ID'd in the first place, which i'd hope it was), particularly headshape. I haven't got a copy of the '06 paper describing it to hand at present

What is my catfish? :: Re: Wild Synodontis from Tanganyika, need help ID'ing please :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-06T17:19:35+00:00

I have a lot of reservations about the ID of Ilebrevis - the pic in Seegars looks very different (presuming that fish is accurately ID'd in the first place, which i'd hope it was), particularly headshape. I haven't got a copy of the '06 paper describing it to hand at present

This is the one we still have the most trouble with of the described species...and am with you on the reservations,with the few questionable pics in Seegers (still a good book though) like I mentioned hope to bug Jeremy Wright on this and see about a photo(live)or some such thing to help us out.

Birger

What is my catfish? :: plecs need ID :: Author JoePlec

2010-09-06T14:03:55+00:00

i know its posted in wrong section but im unsure where it should go

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T14:52:52+00:00

They are both Pterygoplichthys, that's absolutely certain. The first is a breeding form of, I think, Pterygoplichthys pardalis, the second is, unless you have good evidence of otherwise [e.g. known export location from a well-known specialist], a nice coloured specimen of the same species, P. pardalis.

[Post edited to explain better]

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T15:02:55+00:00

Just by looking at the pictures i thought L011 for the silver one.. but im usually wrong

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T15:15:08+00:00

Definitely not Squaliforma - count the rays in the dorsal fin (no, I can't do that with the current picture, but the way the dorsal folds on that fish is clearly a large dorsal fin) - you'll find that it's definitely more than 8, probably 11 or 12. This is key to Pterygoplichthys species - there are a few other species with more than 8 dorsal rays, but they are so different that we can exclude them immediately.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T15:16:59+00:00

i was going off the shifty eyes and the orange fins haha

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T15:26:37+00:00

I'm going to move this post to the ID forum, by the way, as I don't see any form of "selling" info in the thread.

"shifty eyes" and "a tad orange on fins" is definitely not an unusual pattern in Loricariidae - several dozen species matches the latter, and nearly all match the former.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T15:43:53+00:00

so do they have specific l numbers? i keep going fish shops and buying fish i didnt really want to get haha

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T15:49:16+00:00

No L-numbers for these, as they have been in the trade before L-numbers were even thought of.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T16:00:46+00:00

also today fish i had bought as "dwarf bristlenose" 2f 1m, i looked in cave and the male has a nice little clump of eggs he is fanning.. do dwarf bristlenose have an l number, when i say dwarf. the male and female are both around 2 inches.. male has nice bristles

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T16:29:41+00:00

If they are Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus which is by far the most common bristlenose, then no, they don't have an L-number - for the same reason as above.

If they are something else, then perhaps... Without knowing what it is, it's almost impossible to say. I don't think there is any other fish than the above species that is commonly sold under "dwarf bristlenose" (which by the way is a misnomer, as the common bristlenose is by no means a dwarf unless it's stunted by inadequate care - I've had ones that were about 5", and yes, they can breed at the 2" length). There are some other species that are quite small, such as Ancistrus claro, but they are quite rare in the trade [particularly as they are similar to the common variant, but a bit harder to breed, and only available as import from South America, so more expensive].

Having an L-number isn't an important key to whether the fish is "good" or not - L-numbers are just a way to identify fish that haven't been scientifically described, and that are new in the trade (or were new when the first L-numbers came about), instead of using common names that are vaguely different (gold wavy stripe pl*co, yellow stripe pl*co, light brown wavy and spotty pl*co, etc, etc).

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: plecs need ID :: Reply by JoePlec

2010-09-06T17:28:54+00:00

well ill take a couple o pics for ya to look at but ive kept lots of bristlenose and never seen them this small.. the male has nice little bristles.. i had no idea they wud breed. i thought the previous owner had told a porky. but not at all..

What is my catfish? :: Which Peckoltia? :: Author tvemar

2010-09-06T20:54:25+00:00

Which Peckoltia?
About 15 cm TL.

Thanks!

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by Bijn

2010-09-06T21:05:37+00:00

I can't see any picture

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T21:06:41+00:00

Can you post links to pictures that doesn't need registration in a different forum to be seen? [I'm not even sure they work if you are a member of nettakvariet, but it certainly isn't working when you aren't a member].

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by tvemar

2010-09-06T21:19:08+00:00

Oops, sorry.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by tvemar

2010-09-06T21:20:15+00:00

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T21:45:51+00:00

It doesn't look like any species I recognise. Do you have any idea where it's from - even the country that it was exported from would be some help.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by husky_jim

2010-09-06T22:44:17+00:00

Maybe the adult version of Peckoltia sp(l377)???

I think it is the closest match.....

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by tvemar

2010-09-07T06:54:53+00:00

MatsP wrote:It doesn't look like any species I recognise. Do you have any idea where it's from - even the country that it was exported from would be some help.

--
Mats

I got them from someone who bought them as "WC L-340", unfortunately I don't have any more information.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by Yann

2010-09-07T07:22:45+00:00

Hi!

from what I see I would say this is Peckoltia caenosa

Really nice find!!

Cheers
Yann

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T08:30:19+00:00

I think Yann is right. Certainly the vermiculation on the belly area is right, which I haven't seen in any other Peckoltia.

Would be nice to have a ventral view of L377.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by Borbi

2010-09-07T09:11:12+00:00

Hi,

Would be nice to have a ventral view of L377.

You can find one here:
http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... roduct/392

Cheers, Sandor

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T09:58:09+00:00

I meant that it would be good if we had a picture in the Cat-eLog, but finding a picture elsewhere is helpful in that it rules out L377 - it's got plain white on the belly, which is different from Peckoltia caenosa and the fish in the picture. So I think we have a match.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by husky_jim

2010-09-07T11:44:09+00:00

Can anyone send the description/taxonomy paper of Peckoltia Caenosa ?

Thanks!

What is my catfish? :: Re: Which Peckoltia? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T12:04:03+00:00

There is a link to the 76-page Zootaxa paper in the Cat-eLog page (in the "references" section). It is freely available to anyone, so you don't need a subscription or anything.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Author klaw

2010-09-08T00:14:59+00:00

This fish was sold to a friend as a Common pl*co - Hypostomus plecostomus. Can you id please?
thanks
Kim

What is my catfish? :: Re: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Reply by Dave Rinaldo

2010-09-08T01:14:58+00:00

Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps

What is my catfish? :: Re: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Reply by corybrummie2010

2010-09-08T01:24:14+00:00

Hi Kim,welcome to planetcatfish
I agree with Dave Rinaldo,i think your friend was sold a Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps and not hypostomus plecostomus which is rare.They are very common and normally sold as sailfin plec.They can grow upto 45cm and a tank of 200cm must be needed when fully grown.

What is my catfish? :: Re: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-08T04:44:05+00:00

beautiful one at that !

What is my catfish? :: Re: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T06:58:18+00:00

Just to confirm the ID and epxlain why: Hypostomus have 8 rays in their dorsal fin. Pterygoplichthys species have 10-14 dorsal rays. Even without counting, I can see that the fish in this picture has more than 8 rays - simply by looking at the shape.

The pattern on the fish also puts it in P. gibbiceps.

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: ID Dark Brown Pl*co Pls? :: Reply by klaw

2010-09-09T03:37:17+00:00

Thanks everyone!! I was going cross-eyed looking at photos of catfish. I am VERY new to this and didn't realise just how many species or how fascinating fish can be.
Thanks Mats for the handy hint.
thanks again.
Kim

What is my catfish? :: Baryancistrus sp(l081)? :: Author Dave Rinaldo

2010-09-09T01:51:28+00:00

Is this Baryancistrus sp(l081)?

8cm SL

DSC_7835cs.jpg

DSC_7870c.jpg

What is my catfish? :: Re: Baryancistrus sp(l081)? :: Reply by corybrummie2010

2010-09-09T02:19:36+00:00

Looks like a L081 to me.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Baryancistrus sp(l081)? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T07:02:14+00:00

These are confusing even more than usual, have a look at this:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30700

--
Mats

What is my catfish? :: Re: Baryancistrus sp(l081)? :: Reply by sunfish

2010-09-09T08:00:51+00:00

Looks like the bog standard L81 to me.

The one in the other thread is difficult, in that case I'd rather say L47.

What is my catfish? :: Re: Baryancistrus sp(l081)? :: Reply by Yann

2010-09-09T10:33:35+00:00

Hi!!

looks like the correct ID Dave!!
cheers
Yann

What is my catfish? :: Re: WHAT IS MY PANAQUE? :: Reply by matthewfaulkner

2010-09-09T14:43:33+00:00

I took these at a shop in the UK, they were imported and on sale as 'L90 Papa Panaque'. Are they? They are patternless and instead of the white or orange colour in the caudal fin they are black.

What is my catfish? :: Unknown Otocinclus :: Author arinsi

2010-09-10T00:57:35+00:00

i have had 3 of these otos for a good year and i still have no clue what species this is

can anyone help me out with a name?

thank you in return

What is my catfish? :: Re: Unknown Otocinclus :: Reply by Mike_Noren

2010-09-10T01:53:22+00:00

Do you think you could get a couple of unobstructed photos of the tail of the fishes, with the tail fin extended and the pattern on the tail fin clearly visible?

What is my catfish? :: Re: Unknown Otocinclus :: Reply by arinsi

2010-09-10T02:16:25+00:00

i quickly snapped a picture of the tail
i hope this helps

What is my catfish? :: Re: Unknown Otocinclus :: Reply by Mike_Noren

2010-09-10T09:32:45+00:00

It would appear to be an unusually heavily pigmented Otocinclus vittatus. Normally they don't have that much color on the pelvic and anal fins, the dorsal surface is usually a bit lighter, and the spot at the base of the caudal fin a bit more distinct, but there is variation in pigmentation among populations of vittatus.

African Catfishes :: Re: Looking for a good home, can you help? :: Reply by kipper

2010-09-03T20:08:12+00:00

Hi Steve, I take it you want the fish? (i'm near bradford) and I guess the flatoutscreaming is your email?

If you do want them I have a polly box for transport but a couple of heavy duty bags may be a good thing to bring, sorry I don't have access to propper fish bag's anymore, the plec is at least 8" and the syno 6 to 7". (will save the syno getting scratched by the plec if they get bagged separatly) I guess one bag for the syno would do, and float it in the box with the cory and plec.

Let me know on here and I will e mail you my address and arrange a day for a pickup.

Best for now.........Kipper.

African Catfishes :: Re: Looking for a good home, can you help? :: Reply by catmandave

2010-09-04T14:09:42+00:00

Ah, I can smell the bacon cooking now!

African Catfishes :: Chrysichthys with tumor :: Author Dave Rinaldo

2010-09-08T23:11:05+00:00

This guy caught my eye as he made his dash to food and back to his cave.
He's still eating and the other three are fine.
Euthanize....?

DSC_7802cs.jpg

DSC_7798cs.jpg

African Catfishes :: Re: Chrysichthys with tumor :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-09T00:13:56+00:00

Euthanize....?

Seems to be totally integrated into some barbels...unfortunately, I think I would.

Maybe would be helpful to someone studying such things.

Birger

African Catfishes :: Re: Synodontis lucipinnis with Tropheus moorii :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-09T13:52:04+00:00

Boy have I been busy buying a car, buying a huge revolver, shooting the crap out of recyclables with said revolver, and going all over the place on weekends. Not to mention racing TT's on the bike and starting up ice hockey 2X a week.

As a result, my online forum time suffered. I will work on a video of them doing the dance shortly. I will also set up some caves (upside-down-flower-pot-in-pyrex-bowl with black marbles and a spacer on the bottom) to try to harvest some eggs. If I can get a video of them in the "cave" I will surely post it here.

Stay tuned.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by qwerty

2010-09-08T08:46:24+00:00

tokyo wrote:Thanks

How do you know when they are sexually mature? How long does it take to reach this point from 1" fish?

S. eupterus is mature in about one year of age in fast growing individuals and may be more than 2 years in slow ones. Your fish in 1 inch size may be 2 month old, but may be also 6 month. This is becouse growth of Synodontis is VERY irregular (or at least my 7 riverin species). There is no any visible sign of maturity, however for reproduction there is another condition required - females must have ripe oocytes (eggs). This is visible well - they have very enlarged abdomen. At this stage you have two possibilites: you may start trials with hormones, or you may wait for natural reproduction. In may opinion (and experiences), first possibility is a bit more difficult -you must start your own reserch, it requires work with literature, not one paper - many articles must be digested, for various groups of fish, put info together and find your own way. But there is certain chance for succes. You may obtain few thousand of eggs (bigger species of Synos are incredible fertile), if you will be really lucky, some ofe them will be fertilized, you will observe their hathing, development, growth and really fascinating changes in coloration of youngs. Second possibility is much easier - just sit and do nothink, wait - probably for ever. I have read here many times sentences how bloody Easteren European aquarists are unhuman using hormons for fish reproduction. But it seems to me that some aquarists in overseas are a bit lazy to try something new.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T09:09:46+00:00

qwerty wrote:I have read here many times sentences how bloody Easteren European aquarists are unhuman using hormons for fish reproduction. But it seems to me that some aquarists in overseas are a bit lazy to try something new.

Whether you are human or not, I can't say [unless you are a robot, you probably are].

It _IS_, in my opinion, inhumane to use hormone injections to breed fish. To NOT breed with hormones is not lazy, it is the natural method. I can see the purpose of using hormones for food production, but if the purpose of breeding the fish is a hobby project, for personal satisfaction, then using hormones is not the right way to go - it's about as satisfying as turning the cards over when playing solitaire [the card game that comes with many computers] and moving them around to solve the puzzle.

Breeding the natural way involves understanding what the fish needs - and sometimes that can be a complex set of circumstances involving changes in one or more of these:
temperature
pH
conductivity
food (availability/types)
water level
moonlight
day/night-length [unlikely in tropical fish]

Some species may also be affected by hormones in the water from other fish spawning, but I don't think that's really as common as people say it is - it is more likely that if the circumstances for spawning one species is right, another species spawning at the same time may simply be that it's right for that species as well.

--
Mats

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Bas Pels

2010-09-08T10:06:19+00:00

MatsP wrote:Some species may also be affected by hormones in the water from other fish spawning, but I don't think that's really as common as people say it is

personally, without any research done, I would assume only the true pisciforous fishes - where hatching fry will need other fry to predate upon might need other fishes hormones

For other fish it would, after all, be stupit to wait untill the competition has arrived - and evolution normally takes care of stupid solutions

Back to S eupterus - it has a large distribution, and in all those rivers it manages to do without human intervention. Whatever is the trick, the trick should be fairly simple

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by qwerty

2010-09-08T12:04:10+00:00

Hm...I expected reply like this

It _IS_, in my opinion, inhumane to use hormone injections to breed fish.

Why? Because of pain by a needle?

To NOT breed with hormones is not lazy, it is the natural method.

What do you mean by natural method? Glass tank with electric filter, light tubes,... fish fed by flakes containing tens of chemical additives, various conditioners and other chemicals in water? Is this natural? Please explain me why hormons are excluded in your natural methods. How many fish (synodontis)have you used for your natural method? How many of them were wild caught? There is no any documented report of so called natural method of riverin synodontis reproduction. So that how many experiments with breeding conditions (espetially moonligt may be interesting!) should be done to accept, that this is not a way to substitute import of wild caught fish? Of course, majority of Synodontis species are common fish in thair habitats but some fish species are not and you participate on that industry if you buy imported fish. Especially if you buy them without reasonable chance for reproduction. This is an solitair game: dead fish in collection is replaced by a new one from pet shop.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by qwerty

2010-09-08T12:09:48+00:00

Bas Pels wrote:
Back to S eupterus - it has a large distribution, and in all those rivers it manages to do without human intervention. Whatever is the trick, the trick should be fairly simple

It is clear that wild Synodontis know how to do it without hormon injection.

[Mod edit: Fix quotes to not attribute the actual quoted text to the wrong author --Mats]

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-08T12:58:41+00:00

There is no any documented report of so called natural method of riverin synodontis reproduction.

This is not true...Synodontis shoutedeni, Synodontis nigrita, Synodontis euptera are three I can quickly think of that have been done.
The amount of tank space needed may be one of the biggest problems in having natural spawns from riverine species.
Not everyone wants to dedicate up to three good size tanks to spawn one species.

Birger

[Mod edit: Fix "spilleng mitsake" in species name (and use Ferrari's style -a instead of -us) --Mats]

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-08T13:28:10+00:00

[Mod edit: Fix "spilleng mitsake" in species name (and use Ferrari's style -a instead of -us) --Mats]

Good catch, old habits and early morning LOL

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by qwerty

2010-09-09T06:33:13+00:00

Birger wrote:
There is no any documented report of so called natural method of riverin synodontis reproduction.

This is not true...Synodontis shoutedeni, Synodontis nigrita, Synodontis euptera are three I can quickly think of that have been done.

Birger, could you give citations or links to these documented reports?

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by sidguppy

2010-09-09T08:10:31+00:00

What do you mean by natural method? Glass tank with electric filter, light tubes,... fish fed by flakes containing tens of chemical additives, various conditioners and other chemicals in water? Is this natural?

if you cannot spot the difference between keeping a fish in proper water etc or sticking a needle in it and squeezing it to death to get the eggs or roe out; I strongly suggest you do a bit of research.

and because I'm not averse to teaching, I give you the link right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics

there are things you just don't do.

if you cannot understand that, if you are so blind that deliberately maiming and killing fish for profit is the same as our hobby, you suffer from a disorder called sociopthy.
it is known also as a total lack of empathy.

then not study, but professional help from a psychiatist is in order. really!

i can remember a while ago a guy from Russia who like you was all into sticking needles in Syno's.
he also made hybrids, because breeding them as species was "boring" to him.

you people amaze me.
NO ethics, NO morale, NO respect for nature or animals, nothing.
just pure undeluted greed.
disgusting, really.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-09T10:24:53+00:00

sidguppy wrote:
you people amaze me.
NO ethics, NO morale, NO respect for nature or animals, nothing.
just pure undeluted greed.
disgusting, really.

Sid, I don't agree with artificially breeding fish--especially to make hybrids--any more than you do. However, why stir up shit when someone is just ignorant? There are more effective ways to educate.

Get off your high horse. This is a catfish forum. Save the ethics and morals lessons for the appropriate place. Who the hell are you, God? Allah? Buddha? Vishnu? Hmmm...

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T11:05:00+00:00

Scleropages wrote:However, why stir up shit when someone is just ignorant? There are more effective ways to educate.

Then perhaps you should also try to keep to that principle, as I can't really see how your post will have any positive effect on the entire discussion. And I deleted the next post, as it contributes even less to a meaningful discussion.

--
Mats

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-09T12:01:01+00:00

Mats, the reason why I posted what I did is because Sid's post was way over the line for a forum about catfish. Spare us the morality and value judgements. I don't come to this forum to read that type of drivel. If you really felt the need to remove my next post, I'm disappointed, but I can understand. However, why not just remove or edit Sid's post?

Sid, if you want to take this up with me, shoot me a PM. I just think you are not being very tactful, to say the least. This is not the first time you've responded to other peoples' posts this way.

And, for the record, I did not stir the shit up. Sid did. I reacted to it in defense of anyone here who doesn't want to see that type of garbage. I am trying to do a nice, friendly water change and make the tank look great again. Sometimes you need to shake up the rocks, driftwood, and other decor, but you know it is in the best interest in all of the tankmates.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T12:29:04+00:00

If you want to throw words (or rocks) at each other feel free to do so in PM. Two last, completely meaningless for the overall subject, has been deleted, and any more of this and it's "warnings time".

I appreciate that you THINK you are doing the right thing, both of you. Alex (Sidguppy) may not express things the way you want it, Scleropages, but that doesn't give you the right to start a flame-war - which is exactly what you I see your actions trying to achieve (even if that wasn't what you meant to do). I know it's sometimes difficult to express in text what you are thinking and that would easily be understood when you talk person to person.

So, BOTH of you, please knock it off (in public at least).

--
Mats

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-09T13:23:10+00:00

Thanks, Mats. The funny thing is I agree with what Sid (Alex) is saying regarding this topic. I just don't agree with the way he attacks people when their views are different than his. It is uncalled for.

With regards to the topic: I wonder if qwerty has actually seen or performed hormone & sperm injections on fish. Have you, qwerty? Or, are you speaking from heresay? I mean, they do it all the time in fish farms. People gotta eat. Supply has to meet demand.

However, I can't help think and feel that it is cruel to inject fish with anything... except for medication, if needed. Creating artificial hybrids goes against the very thing that draws many of us to this hobby: NATURE

One more thing: how many of you own clown loaches? Were they wild caught? If not, how do you think they came into this world?

Alex, Vonnegut is a genius, BTW.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Bas Pels

2010-09-09T14:06:46+00:00

Sclerophagus

I do agree Sidguppy was harsh in what he wrote, too harsh in my eyes, but reading what you wrote today I'm very surprised

you wrote

This is a catfish forum. Save the ethics and morals lessons for the appropriate place

Although we might feel differtent about hormone treatments (but reading further I don't think so) but I do think all forums related to keeping animals, especially animals coming from the wild, of which not always a lot is known, should pay attention to ethics and morals. Some things are just wrong, period.

please tell me your quoted reaction was overdone, so we can go back to the morals, and fishes, themselves

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by sidguppy

2010-09-09T19:57:52+00:00

harsh or no, what I see is this:

Querty confesses and propagates the deliberate torture and wounding of fishes.
Scleropaghus doesn't give a peep, nothing.
nowhere to be found.

I blister some bark of said person who is practicing what is nothing less than terrorism-to-animals and only NOW does Sclerophagus jump in because he obviously has NO problem with cruelty to animals or the promnotion thereof, but he HAS a problem with ethics?

then yes, I should box his ears!
last I say of this, it's literally pearls for the swine; that much is clear.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-09T22:03:28+00:00

I agree with Sid and i like how he said it.

No offence to Scleropages.

And i agree with Bas, what better place to talk about fish treatment then on a fish forum.

Sorry, felt like I had to put my two cents cause I love the synodontis'.

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-10T00:04:12+00:00

Birger, could you give citations or links to these documented reports?

synodontis euptera....viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21292&p=119681&hilit=eupterus+spawning#p119681

Synodontis nigrita and shoutedeni...talk to Oliver at http://www.synodontis.net/ his spawnings are in article form but in German.

Synodontis shoutedeni, this has been spawned a few times, here is one from Shane's World...http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... choutedeni

There are more I just do not have much time right now.

Birger

African Catfishes :: Re: Breeding Synodontis eupterus? :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-10T01:32:51+00:00

I will repeat

So, BOTH of you, please knock it off (in public at least).

Scleropages that last post which was again deleted was not all that useful. Please stick to topic or close to it and use another option for such a communication.

Birger

African Catfishes :: Re: synodontis lucipinnis egg size :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-09T10:20:47+00:00

Steve, sorry you haven't gotten a response here yet. I think the short answer is: yes, your egg tumbler should be fine for both S. multipunctata and S. lucipinnis eggs. If you look for the "Petricola Egg Spray" video on youtube, you will get an idea of the size of S. lucipinnis eggs.

Good luck rearing those fry!

African Catfishes :: Re: synodontis lucipinnis egg size :: Reply by Richard B

2010-09-09T11:56:09+00:00

Yes this should be fine - how are you collecting the eggs firstly?

If you are using the pot of marbles, place a mesh underneath the marbles with some space below so the marbles can be removed without risk of squashing any eggs

African Catfishes :: Re: synodontis lucipinnis egg size :: Reply by walleye1

2010-09-09T23:44:05+00:00

Thanks for the replys. I plan on doing a modified trap like the marble trap, with a screened space at the bottom. We noticed the lucipinnis get more active just before a spawn. Hopefully I'll be ready when the next spawn occurs.

African Catfishes :: Re: synodontis lucipinnis egg size :: Reply by Scleropages

2010-09-10T10:53:32+00:00

Good luck! I'm in the same boat... going to install some "caves" for my S. lucipinnis and see if I can harvest some eggs. So I can eat them! Not!

Then, there's the whole rearing process...

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by nvcichlids

2010-09-07T22:35:31+00:00

I have yet to see mine come out.. is this common when they are new in a tank? What could I do to prod them into the open? I will be reworking the tank (darker and more rock caves along with clay pot cave as seen used by others.

I am just worried because I NEVER see them.. even with lights out. I see sand kicked out from under rocks, but never see the fish.

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-07T23:14:56+00:00

This is what they do...hide all day and cruise at night, even in the wild.

They will eventually start to show themselves but sporadically. Try tempting them out with bloodworms at lights out or better yet give them something to chase after, you will hear the splashing going on...they are definitely shy at first, they will get used to your schedule.

I did find that the more cover there was the better chance of seeing them as they know they can dash somewhere if need be.

Birger

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by nvcichlids

2010-09-07T23:47:15+00:00

Birger wrote: or better yet give them something to chase after, you will hear the splashing going on...

What do you mean by this?

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by Phyllonemus

2010-09-08T18:44:30+00:00

even a group of typus can cause tanganicae to starve to death...........................

I don't fully agree, I've kept the combination of Phyllonemus typus ( 2m/f, adult size) with 2 Mastacembelus tanganicae, and was handfeeding them 2 times a week.
Eels where looking well fed.
But when there are a lot of catfishes aroud I agree that the tanganicae will be out competed from food.

the only eel I have never seen going after (small) fish is the tanganyicae, but then, getting that species to eat ANYThing is a challenge all by itself
in my experience it is the hardest to keep Tanganyikan eel.

They are very fussy eaters indeed, mine where only eating earthworms and shrimps, only by handfeeding.

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by nvcichlids

2010-09-08T21:31:44+00:00

Am I able to sex the Phyllo's at 2" total length?

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by Birger

2010-09-09T00:05:10+00:00

nvcichlids wrote:
Birger wrote: or better yet give them something to chase after, you will hear the splashing going on...

What do you mean by this?

What it means is some young c*****ds about 1/2 inch or so would definitely get them out and about at night and you will hear plenty of splashing as they chase after them for a late night snack, for a typus there is nothing better.

Am I able to sex the Phyllo's at 2" total length?

I would say no...it can be difficult even with full grown adults with a practiced eye, best thing is let them decide from a large enough group, If someone says they can sex them at this size (2") they have x-ray vision

Birger

African Catfishes :: Re: Phyllonemus typus locational information :: Reply by nvcichlids

2010-09-10T11:55:44+00:00

Thanks for all the help. Yesterday the dark rocks came in and I have the slate so I reworked the tank, made it much darker near the bottom and they seemed to really enjoy it. I saw all 6 out just after lights out last night.. I just wish my camera did better focusing with the lights out.

They really do have huge mouths. I dropped in a single shrimp pellet (like what you feed corydoras) to bait them to the front of hte tank... fish fish out there swallowed the thing.. i was like ... They all seem to have their own friend two.. as of yesterday they are 3 groups of 2... not saying pairs, just friends

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Keeping P. virgulata :: Reply by medaka

2010-09-04T15:29:36+00:00

Silurus hits the nail on the head here.

They might be happier if you could give them some live food.

I have found that without live food in their diet, they tend to get hollow belly and waste away.
The live food that I use is: cyclops and sifted daphnia, grindal worm and If they are housed in the same tank as other compatible bottom feeders I offer micro worm at least once a week. This means that 'if' at times they do not get enough food, the smaller fine microworms are just about too small for anything larger than themselves to easily feast upon.

One live food to be careful with when feeding to small Pseudolaguvia is newly hatched brine shrimp.
Only feed a little; yes the catfish may be seen greadily feeding upon it, but it has a tendancy to constipate them if given to them in quantity.
Which usually ends in their death.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Keeping P. virgulata :: Reply by lalramliana

2010-09-05T09:14:10+00:00

Thanks all, very informative. I will follow the same.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Glass cat 'colour' :: Reply by snowball

2010-09-06T04:56:16+00:00

I think it is just light refracting as the fish undulates, not something the fish can actively control. Under good lighting I have seen all the colours of the rainbow shimmering from them.

White / opaque patches I once read (somewhere on this site) are possibly areas of nerve damage, which sounds plausible to me. I have had the odd glass cat with such a patch that never went away, though the fish did no seem affected in any other way.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T00:56:57+00:00

Hopefully I won't deviate from topic too much. My questions are actually about the all-important compatibility: at what stages of life or, maybe rather sizes, can these be combined with each other and/or other cats? Rob, you hinted that your guys shared the quarters with others.

People write a lot of stuff about these fascinating, arguably the most intolerant and aggressive freshwater species, with many people (like on aquaticpredators.com) claiming yarellies far superceding say infamous wykiis. Pair that with them huge, sharp teeth and the compatibility problem is perhaps pushed to an exreme.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:06:23+00:00

some i-net pics

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:08:08+00:00

...

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Redtailrob

2010-09-06T08:44:00+00:00

Hi Victor / all.

Well i can only speak as i find currentlty and also only the sizes that I've kept them.

The two where originally housed together in a 40G (UK) aquarium along with various other bits and bobs such as Small Green terrors, Juvenile Knifefish.
However this fish where moved out as I wished to keep the Bagrus @ the lower temps as recommended for these fish 68-71 degrees and didnt what to subject the other fish to such low temperatures.

The two showed NO aggresion towards any of the other inhabitants or to each other in their time together other than brief scraps if they tried to occupy the same cave etc.
A unique observation however was that even though both would eat readily only one showed any particular growth rate, the other would just refuse to grow or at least nothing like it's bigger tankmate.

Since separtion the smaller one has blossomed & is now approx 10" and kept alone.
The larger one of the two 12-13" approx is currently in a 315G along with some Pike c*****ds, Jaguar pair, and some Big cats and " Currently" shows no aggresion other than chasing fish away from its cave.
Time will tell.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T16:34:58+00:00

Nice. Thanx for sharing, Rob. And thanx for indicating that the gallons are UK - you must have remembered our prior discussions !

I already forgot and used US gallons in a few posts without specifying they are US since then

I wonder if the growth rate discrepancy can be tentatively attributed to a phenomenon I read about koi, wherein the alpha koi releases growth inhibiting hormone into the pond water to slow down the growth of its koi pondmates and hold on to its supremacy.

Asian Catfishes :: Re: Goonch Growth Rates :: Reply by Redtailrob

2010-09-07T10:39:23+00:00

Hi there.

There could well be something in that assumption.
As i mentioned other than brief territorial scraps there was never any fighting that I witnessed. The two of them i would say used to eat about the same amount of food when offered as i wolud make sure that they both received similar quantities, the slightly smaller one of the two grew at a much slower pace than the other.

Since being separated the smaller one has doubled in length & width.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Last Time I Let The Missus Go Solo To A Lfs :: Reply by L number Banana

2010-09-04T05:37:07+00:00

Lucky you, having a significant other who would think of calling you to pick up fish, heehee. She's a good choice for fiancee!
I think it's brilliant and now all you have to do is take your least favourite corys and set them up in 'her' tank. Or take her shopping with you next time to buy the rest of the clans. If 'her' corys breed, she'll be hooked

Girly tip: if she wants to put something goofy looking in her cory tank - just shut up and enjoy. It's how many of us got started, room decor/tank decor, all the same pleasure.

Thoughtful lady, heehee.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Last Time I Let The Missus Go Solo To A Lfs :: Reply by Mike_Noren

2010-09-04T08:40:28+00:00

Letting the significant other buy fish is certainly a gamble. My girlfriend has done so on a few occasions, and through sheer luck always managed to get extremely interesting fish which I would never have bought myself. Like this one:

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding Corydoras aeneus :: Reply by catmandave

2010-09-05T17:35:04+00:00

To remove Cory eggs from the glass I began with a razor blade but later used a plastic credit card as it is wider and worked better, collected more eggs per swipe. I can see how corybreed's suggestion of using a clump of Java Moss would work just fine too.Great tip, I'm going to try that next time. Thanks!

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Sexing Callichthys? :: Reply by PeterUK

2010-09-03T22:24:28+00:00

The last picture doesnt look very 'male' like to me.
The pectoral spines on the males that I've seen and kept are much thicker and a deeper orange colour.

Photo of my young male approx 1 year old.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Sexing Callichthys? :: Reply by Carp37

2010-09-05T08:48:08+00:00

Thanks Mats, Peter- I was pretty sure the top fish was a female when the picture was taken (the fish being at an age of 2 years 4-6 months), but now they look as male as the fish in the bottom picture except for the orange colouration round the bottom of the fish, which Peter's male is also showing...

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Sexing Callichthys? :: Reply by PeterUK

2010-09-05T20:14:28+00:00

Also noticed today while doing a tank cleanup, the males whole pectoral fin is almost as orange as the thick pectoral spine.
Looks very nice, especially when looked at from above on grey sand.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Can Panda's help with removing planeria/thin-white worms??? :: Author Cento

2010-09-06T03:57:37+00:00

So, I have a 10gal planted tank with 6 Panda corys and 8 shrimp (5 amano and 3 RCS). Now, I've been having an every-so-slowly increasing pandemic of those hair-thin white worms that occasionally swim into the water column and even a planeria (flatter, stubbier, beige worm) here and there.

I've been told that small schooling fish such as dwarf rasboras will help keep these creatures in check, but I'm trying to keep my bioload down. So if I can, I'd like to avoid adding more fish.

Can/do panda corys's eat these creatures?

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Can Panda's help with removing planeria/thin-white worms :: Reply by Silurus

2010-09-06T06:53:22+00:00

The Corydoras are unlikely to eat the planarians (or the worms).

There's some advice on getting rid of these without the use of fish here.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Rapidly breathing Cories :: Author davemill

2010-09-06T07:54:21+00:00

Hi, all,

I have a mature (10 years since setup) 72 gallon, heavily-planted community tank. Occupants include angels, apistos, rummynose tetras, ancistrus, plus three corydoras species (Corydoras trilineatus and two species resembling Corydoras paleatus). Three of the cories were purchased at adult size nine years ago, and the rest of the cories were obtained as adults 3+ years ago. The ancistrus frequently breed in the tank. Soft water, pH 6.3, CO2 injection, and 50% water changes 1-2 times per month.

Here's the question: When I observe the C. paleatus-type cories, about half seem to breathe very quickly, four or more times per second. The others breathe more slowly, approximately 2 times per second. I can't be certain, but it also seems that these faster-breathing cories spend less time hunting and more time resting than the others. These fish are otherwise healthy, showing up with the others during feeding time.

The situation has been stable for a long time. I first noticed this a year or more ago, but my daughter noticed it and pointed it out to me again this weekend. I am wondering whether this could be caused by something like gill flukes? Should I leave well enough alone, or attempt treatment?

Please note that any treatment must treat the entire tank plus occupants, as it is essentially impossible to catch any gravel dwellers among the plants and driftwood.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Rapidly breathing Cories :: Reply by crkinney

2010-09-06T15:43:43+00:00

Do they smoke?

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Rapidly breathing Cories :: Reply by Bwhiskered

2010-09-07T11:50:47+00:00

Gill flukes are a good possibility. The whole tank could be treated with Life Bearer. It won't harm anything and may help the problem.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Rapidly breathing Cories :: Reply by Coryman

2010-09-07T19:08:43+00:00

If it was gill flukes then it is a safe bet that the whole tank would be infected and if this problem was noted a year ago then it would have been a major problem long before this.

The problem could be a combination of temperature and or CO2 (you don't say what it is). C. paleatus prefer a cooler range than the so called tropical 24ºC - 26ºC,the would be happier at 21ºC - 22ºC. is the CO2 on 24/7 or is it turned off at night?

There could be a number of other contributory factors, such as nitrite. Have the fish been subjected to high nitrites at any time, this can certainly have an effect on breathing.

Ian

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: I.D. help for unusual cory :: Author rugar

2010-09-06T01:59:09+00:00

I have been trying to identify this cory with no success. It has no black on or around the dorsal fin and no black mask. Will the experts please help?

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: I.D. help for unusual cory :: Reply by corybrummie2010

2010-09-06T03:19:35+00:00

I think that could be a Corydoras agassizii.Not 100% sure,as there is a few corys that looks very similar to yours.Lets wait and see what the others say.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: I.D. help for unusual cory :: Reply by rugar

2010-09-06T10:45:33+00:00

Here is another picture of it.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: I.D. help for unusual cory :: Reply by Coryman

2010-09-07T18:54:14+00:00

I think you possibly have C. delphax

Ian

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: I.D. help for unusual cory :: Reply by Yann

2010-09-07T19:26:20+00:00

HEllo!!

when looking at your pic, my initial thought is..this fish look somehow similar to C13, which raise the question, is C13 a delphax with an odd patern??

cheers
Yann

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Author dicko1976

2010-09-07T16:22:17+00:00

Hi Guys, I need a bit of advice. Just looking at all the guys in the tank today and noticed this grey dis-colouration on one of the Sterba Corys just in front of his dorsal fin. When taking it out of the water it is un-noticable, however there is a large yellow/green lump that has grown behind his right eye. Can i keep it in the tank? Is it contagious? Any advice welcome. Had a pair of them for a week and a half and the other one is fine. There are about 8 other corys in the tank and they are fine. Ammonia is zero, Nitrite is zero, and Nitrate is 40ppm. i'm doing 20% water changes every week, and the last change was yesterday. Temperature and PH is all ok. I've attached photos.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by dicko1976

2010-09-07T16:32:49+00:00

Photos now showing lump behind right eye

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by dicko1976

2010-09-07T16:33:50+00:00

Another photo showing grey discolouration

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T16:43:11+00:00

Moved to correct forum. I'm about to go from work now, will reply later if there is no useful reply.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by Coryman

2010-09-07T18:47:25+00:00

A couple of questions.

What is your feeding regime? and what temperature are you keeping them at.

Ian

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by dicko1976

2010-09-07T18:59:44+00:00

Temperature set at 25 degrees. Fed once a day. Pellets or frozen bloodworm. Its very strange but the lumps on the side of the head seem to be getting bigger

Chris

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by Coryman

2010-09-07T19:12:39+00:00

Are the pellets the high protein type? high protein foods can and often do cause fatty jelly like lumps, usually at the base of fin spines.

C. sterbai would prefer warmer water, say 27ºC

Ian

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by dicko1976

2010-09-08T19:13:50+00:00

Thanks for the tips people. My mate who shows fish thinks it might have a secondary infection as the left pectoral fin seeems to have been broken. Couldn't really explain the lumps on the head though. Its currently isolated and has had a bit of Melafix added to the water. I'll be keeping an eye on the tank floor to see if any of the other fish are harassing any of the others

Chris

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Whats wrong with my Sterba :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T20:08:15+00:00

What Iann (Coryman) doesn't know about corys can probably be written on the back of a stamp with a wide-tip pen. [Yes, that's an exaggeration, but he's one of the leading experts on Aquarium keeping of corys in England, if not the world].

So if Coryman says check the amount of protein in your feeding, then that's probably a good suggestion. Temperature suggestion seems good too. It is quite possible that your fish is suffering from multiple "bad" things - secondary infection is just what the name says, a second infection caused by immune-system overload by some other illness. This is similar to when someone has a cold, it can lead to pneumonia if the person is weak or "stressed" by other factors. This is, in humans, called a secondary infection.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: M. Thoracata breeding query :: Author MattP

2010-09-08T20:29:26+00:00

I have 3 mature Megalechis Thoracata (1 male, 2 females).Although fairly new to fishkeeping and not experienced with catfish I thought these would be a great addition to my community set up and they are fantastic characters. It didn't take the male long before he was building bubble nests that would disintegrate over time.He would rebuild the nest but was seemingly provoking little interest from the females..... until yesterday. I woke up yesterday to be greeted by at least 50 yellow coloured eggs in the nest. To say I went off to work happy is an understatement. However on return from work no eggs in sight but nest still intact....gutted!

Is this commonplace for this species or am I just unlucky?

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: M. Thoracata breeding query :: Reply by L number Banana

2010-09-09T04:10:04+00:00

Some of us tried the breeding challenge with these wonderful fish at the link below with little success - lots of bubble nests blown but no survivors. Someone will come along to post their success story but the thread link below is an interesting read and has some good links here and there too.

The thread is about a challenge for many people to get the same fish and note their attempts at breeding them. The first one to breed them and sell the offspring would win the right to name the next fish for a similar challenge.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25730

I haven't given up on my dream of breeding them but I have to wait until I can move them to a tank by themselves.

Also look at the species page here: Megalechis thoracata, you can hit a search at the bottom of the page that shows you all the threads etc where M. thoracata is mentioned.

Good luck and share the pics of your successes!

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: M. Thoracata breeding query :: Reply by MattP

2010-09-09T21:07:06+00:00

Thanks for the info which definitely made me feel better!.The challenge idea sounds very cool but seems it died a death which is a shame!. It looks like far more experienced aquarists than myself can struggle with spawning and raising fry from this species. I have plans of setting up a tank just for these, so will post my results if I get any!!

Cheers Matt

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Author ColumbianChocolate

2010-09-04T21:45:22+00:00

Over the last couple of years i have bought 4 of these little fellas and they are reaching maturity. I am having trouble sexing them or seeing any subtle differences. I thought maybe the male would have thicker pectoral fins or the female would be chunkier but they are all the same. Either I have all the same sex or they are just harder to sex than corys or hoplos? Has any one had any experience in breeding them? Thanks

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by PeterUK

2010-09-05T20:17:36+00:00

Have you read the Cat-e-log article ? . . . Dianema urostriatum

[Mod edit: Use clog-tags... --Mats]

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by ColumbianChocolate

2010-09-06T19:52:26+00:00

Yes thanks I just wondered if anyone has any personal experiences with these lovely catfish or any luck with breeding them

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T20:25:59+00:00

I bought a group of 6 (or 8?), and some of those are definitely looking fatter than others.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Bwhiskered

2010-09-07T11:44:56+00:00

ColumbianChocolate wrote:Yes thanks I just wondered if anyone has any personal experiences with these lovely catfish or any luck with breeding them

I had the luck of spawning this fish back in the 1980's. The only way I could sex them was when the female filled with eggs. I had bought 4 adult and after a quarantine period they were moved to a 100 gallon community tank that was in the 80 degree temperature range. After several months I noticed the one female had gotten plump and the one male was courting. They were moved to a low 30 gallon that was in the mid 70's. They spawned twice both times I was away for the weekend. The first time I only found 5 fungused eggs under the floating yellow plastic lid. The next time a couple of weeks later there was 75 eggs stuck to the lid with a nest of very few bubbles. The lid was moved to a pail with an air stone and a few drops of methylene blue. All 75 were hatched and raised. I was never able to get another spawning. The high temperature followed by lower may have been the key. I hope this helps your attempts.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by ColumbianChocolate

2010-09-08T08:30:14+00:00

Thanks Bwhiskered that very helpful. I have 2 adults and 2 young adults so I will wait until they have all matured and I will start adjusting the temperature and water levels. Its quite hard to find healthy specimans in the fish shops, they are extremely skinny and looks like they do not travel well. Its nice to know that it is possible to breed them, they are such lovely looking catfish

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by syno321

2010-09-08T14:21:51+00:00

I too had a pair spawn in 2001 but did not manage to raise any young from the fertile eggs. IME imports of this species are almost exclusively males and so distinguishing the sexes is impossible. I've been on the hunt for another pair and I think I found 1 female in a group about 2 months ago. IME the most reliable and most easily seen distinguishing feature is the first few rays of the pectoral fin. In males they are thicker and a slight orange color. Of course in younger specimans it is much more difficult to see. That didn't stop me from purchasing what I hope is a pair and trying them again.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Jools

2010-09-08T17:55:37+00:00

For me this is one of the great catfish unknowns, if someone can breed these guys AND document it then I suspect that article would become a classic.

Jools

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Bwhiskered

2010-09-08T19:39:30+00:00

I wrote an article on the spawning for the Hamilton & District Aquarium Society bulletin at the time. This article should still exist somewhere. I will try and locate it.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Bwhiskered

2010-09-09T10:56:28+00:00

One of our clubs ex-editors found it in an old bulletin. I spawned them in 1987 and wrote this article at that time. It shows my memory is off a bit and now days I would probably write a longer and much more detailed article. But here it is.

Dianema urostriata

This striped-tailed cousin of the common Porthole Catfish is a little shy, especially when it comes to spawning. I have only heard of one American hobbyist who has had them spawn. I bought three of these fish two or three years ago from a dealer who had put them at a super low bargain price because they had been in his shop too long. I brought them home and placed them in a ten gallon quarantine tank. A few times I saw some suspicious bubbles under a few floating plant leaves, but nothing to get excited about. After a couple of months I moved my three fish to a one hundred gallon community tank. Here they swam happily for two years.

Then one day I noticed the male dancing around the female and giving her a little tickle with his whicskers now and again. Up until then I wasn't sure of the sexes. It turned out the male was four inches long and the front edge of the pectoral fins had a slightly heavier ray. The females are six inches long and slightly more rounded in the belly. I caught the male and one of the females and placed them in a fifteen gallon tank with a six inch yellow plastic jar lid floating on the surface. A bubblenest was soon built and the male courted the female but nothing else happened. After two weeks he lost interest and so did I. Back into the hundred they went, but not for long. Two weeks later, a female had gotten rather plump and he was chasing her.

This time the pair went into a flat thirty gallon tank of slightly aged tap water. By the next day they had a nest under the jar lid. Nothing happened until I went away that weekend. When I came back I found that they had spawned and eaten all but two eggs. They were taken out but did not hatch.

Two more weeks passed. The male maintained his bubblenest but there was no more spawning until I went away for the weekend. When I returned I could see eggs in the nest. A close look revealed about 75 eggs stuck to the jar lid under the bubbles. The lid was placed in a small pail with an air stone and a few drops of acriflavine. Four days later, fifty fry hatched. I moved them to a fifteen gallon tank where they thrived on baby brine shrimp and powdered flake food. The fry vary in their growth rate but average about an inch a month. So far, the adults have refused to spawn again but I am still trying. If they were too easy, everybody would be spawning them. This is truly a challenging but rewarding fish. Don't let the fact that you haven't heard of anyone spawning a particular fish before stop you from trying. Let it be a challenge. Good Luck.

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Jools

2010-09-09T18:24:32+00:00

Really interesting, I think the jar lid was also important. No other water details? I mean, what would your tank water be like in the late 80's?

Jools

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: Breeding/Sexing Flag Tailed Porthole Catfish :: Reply by Bwhiskered

2010-09-10T11:02:00+00:00

The water was city water that comes from Lake Ontario which is a medium hardness with a ph of 7.4-7.6. The 100 gallon tanks temperature would have been about 80 F and the tank they spawned in would have been in the lower 70's as it was in May and the fish room would have been a bit cooler than usual at that time of year.

About the same time as I spawned them they had been spawned by an American woman just previously that had kept them outside in a tub all summer. As the weather cooled in September she moved them indoors where they spawned. This should indicate that anyone attempting to spawn them should first put them though a warm period followed by a cool one. The woman could have been Sally Boggs as the article may have been in an exchange club bulletin.

Charles Drew

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: good food for breeding cory??? :: Author daniel_cory

2010-09-10T14:48:57+00:00

Whether to give the parent continuous cory with daphnia can cause breeding cory corrupted. because if you run out given the daphnia, the parent must immediately lay eggs .. My farm has c. metae, c. similis, c. sterbay.
one more thing why c.similis where I lay around 250-300 eggs but the eggs looked good only about 80,20,70, at most 120. In the aquarium there are 9 female and 12 male. whether there is something wrong with my care. My plants love to eat tubifex worms every morning and evening .. sometimes daphnia or it's already natural factors .. thank's ..

South American Catfishes (Callichthyidae - Corys et al) :: Re: good food for breeding cory??? :: Reply by corybreed

2010-09-10T15:50:26+00:00

Daniel,

It is always best to give a varied diet for all fish. Feeding corys a diet consisting only of daphnia will not be productive. I would start with a good pellet food and supplement with worms and the daphnia. With regard to the fertilization rate of cory eggs, that varies from species to species. How large is your aquarium?

Mark

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Pink L25? :: Reply by Andersp90

2010-09-03T18:01:15+00:00

Some very unique fish you got there!!!

If they are sao felix or not i dont know, but they dont look like the fish daniel got from there: http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/Gall ... 0Felix.htm

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: What are these? Dermal teeth? :: Author matthewfaulkner

2010-09-06T16:50:34+00:00

After doing some close up pictures of my Panaque nigrolineatus I was wandering what these things are? The small tear drop things that are surrounding the eye and along the umbone(?) before the eye. I thought they might dermal teeth. And also, the bits that you can see below the eye, more obvious on the stripes.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: What are these? Dermal teeth? :: Reply by L number Banana

2010-09-06T17:04:48+00:00

What a beautiful picture!
Check out the wiki on Odontodes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odontode

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: What are these? Dermal teeth? :: Reply by matthewfaulkner

2010-09-06T17:19:45+00:00

Thanks, for the link and comment. I thought that these were odontodes (the long white spines on the operculum). Or are they both odontodes, just different kinds?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: What are these? Dermal teeth? :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T17:22:07+00:00

Yes, they are different types of odontodes - teethlike constructs.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: L260 question :: Reply by Barbie

2010-09-06T07:52:18+00:00

IME, the "secret" with L260 has been large TDS fluctuations for stimulation. Cool water didn't do a thing unless it was very low TDS. Even a couple big cool RO or rain water changes can make all of the difference in the world.

I've done 50% RO changes, dropping the tank temperature as much as 10 degrees, only to discover fry in the tank with no casualties. That is strictly my experience though. I did manage to crash the tank my original breeders lived in to kill them in spite of being so hardy . Thank goodness the new group has become such a great producing colony!

Barbie

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: L260 question :: Reply by apistomaster

2010-09-06T17:34:39+00:00

That is what has worked for me but the one water change using 2/3 refill of RO was when the water was too cold and the sudden drop was closer to 20*F which was more than newly released fry could cope with.
I just combined my old wilds with 15 2-3/4' F1 in a larger tank. While working on the finishing touches of the 20 Long the wilds were in I found a single very recently independent fry.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Shane

2010-09-06T04:56:52+00:00

On the other hand, we know that Hypancistrus hybrids are definitely fertile.

Firstly I agree with Mats' comments above. It is important to remember that "species" is a man-made concept and the definition of what a "species" is has changed over time as we learn more about how organisms are related. Also, not everyone agrees as to what exactly defines a species.

This may sound like a technicality, but a hybrid, when speaking about taxonomy, refers to offspring resulting from the interbreeding between two animals of different taxa. So in Mats' example above Equus caballus (horse) X Equus asinus (donkey) is a hybrid. However spawning L XXX with L XXX is not a hybrid as L Numbers are NOT scientific taxa (despite what many aquarists have come to think). L Numbers are assigned by ornamental fish importers and are not the result of taxonomic study.

If two two different L Numbers spawn and produce offspring, it is just as likely (or more) that the spawning reflects the unscientific nature of L Number assignments rather than a case of hybridization between two taxa.

-Shane

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by jac

2010-09-06T06:04:01+00:00

Thanks very much for the reply's Mats and Shane.

It makes it clear anough for me for the moment.

Just for the biological side of things: could you than conclude that when the offspring of a crossbreed (take hypancistrus for instance) is infertile that would mean that the adults would be 2 different species or taxa as you say?
Genetics is really interesting

I have an other question for you if you don't mind. This was told to me but don't really understand how it works.
If breeding Lnumbers it isn't very good to breed the offspring with the parents again. But breeding brothers and sisters (if you start a breeding group out of a group of the same offspring) isn't so bad. I know that it is best to start your breeding group up with different genes.
But I just wanted to know how it works as I want to start a breeding group of my own offspring or F1's.

Jacqueline

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T06:48:28+00:00

Shane wrote:
On the other hand, we know that Hypancistrus hybrids are definitely fertile.

Firstly I agree with Mats' comments above. It is important to remember that "species" is a man-made concept and the definition of what a "species" is has changed over time as we learn more about how organisms are related. Also, not everyone agrees as to what exactly defines a species.

This may sound like a technicality, but a hybrid, when speaking about taxonomy, refers to offspring resulting from the interbreeding between two animals of different taxa. So in Mats' example above Equus caballus (horse) X Equus asinus (donkey) is a hybrid. However spawning L XXX with L XXX is not a hybrid as L Numbers are NOT scientific taxa (despite what many aquarists have come to think). L Numbers are assigned by ornamental fish importers and are not the result of taxonomic study.

If two two different L Numbers spawn and produce offspring, it is just as likely (or more) that the spawning reflects the unscientific nature of L Number assignments rather than a case of hybridization between two taxa.

-Shane

Ok, so technically, Hypancistrus sp(L201) x Hypancistrus sp(L260) is not a hybrid. Whilst scientists may not have got round to defining them as separate species, they are clearly not [by reasonable defintion of species, as not only do they have different body patterns, they also have fairly different body shape] the same species. Yet, if that particular combination hasn't been bred, I'm 99% sure there were pictures of similar "hybrids" at the L-Welse meeting in Germany last year.

What I'm trying to say is that whilst technically it may not (currently) be hybrids produced from various L-numbered species, at least in some cases, that is purely because scientists have yet to define these as individual species.

I am not, by the way, saying that every L-number represents different speceis. There are certtainly several examples of L-numbers that are definitely or most likely the same species from different locations.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by racoll

2010-09-06T07:00:01+00:00

jac wrote:I find it quite disappointing to read that Hypancistrus could already have cross bred in the wild to make the species we have called L173, L260, L399 and L400 and others...

This is complete nonsense! Speciation via hybridisation has been demonstrated, but to assume that this is the case without any evidence whatsoever (other than "the fishes look quite similar") is entirely ludicrous.

jac wrote:could you than conclude that when the offspring of a crossbreed (take hypancistrus for instance) is infertile that would mean that the adults would be 2 different species

Yes, it is strong evidence to support that. However the opposite is not true, and two different species are perfectly able to have fertile hybrid offspring.

Shane wrote:Also, not everyone agrees as to what exactly defines a species.

I think an important paradigm shift occurred after biologists gave up trying to define a species, as there are so many exceptions to each rule. Now, we recognise species as independently evolving units, and can be defined using the most appropriate data to resolve that question.

P.S. I agree with Mats on the L number thing.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Bas Pels

2010-09-06T07:57:11+00:00

racoll wrote:Now, we recognise species as independently evolving units, and can be defined using the most appropriate data to resolve that question.

for quite some time now, I'm starting to pay less and less attention to the species - in favour of the genus and location

So I don't care so much about the species my Ancistrus which I found in the arroyo Aquas Blancas in Uruguay - it's an Ancistrus (which tells me a lot about how to take care of them - feeding, behaviour) from the arroyo Aquas Blancas - which tells me the rest of how to take care of them (waterflow, water values, temperature)

Therefore, whether this fish is the same species as the Ancistrus from the arroyo Tropa Vieja (60 km apart) or not - I keep them separated, as they would not mingle in nature

Do you agree, Racoll that the cited piece would ultimately define 'species' as 'population'?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by racoll

2010-09-06T11:10:18+00:00

So I don't care so much about the species my Ancistrus which I found in the arroyo Aquas Blancas in Uruguay - it's an Ancistrus (which tells me a lot about how to take care of them - feeding, behaviour) from the arroyo Aquas Blancas - which tells me the rest of how to take care of them (waterflow, water values, temperature)

Therefore, whether this fish is the same species as the Ancistrus from the arroyo Tropa Vieja (60 km apart) or not - I keep them separated, as they would not mingle in nature

Seems like a sensible approach with all these undescribed species.

Do you agree, Racoll that the cited piece would ultimately define 'species' as 'population'?

Difficult question, as there are many examples of single species with huge ranges, comprising hundreds of "populations", yet all individuals are morphologically and genetically conservative.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Mike_Noren

2010-09-06T11:44:58+00:00

racoll wrote:However the opposite is not true, and two different species are perfectly able to have fertile hybrid offspring.

Ability to interbreed is a plesiomorphy, a primitive inherited trait, and as such is not informative. Inability to interbreed is an autapomorphy, a derived trait, and as such is informative. In other words: if two groups of animals can interbreed and have fertile offspring, that means nothing; if they can not interbreed or their offspring has reduced fitness, then they are different species.

Inability to interbreed is not normally selected for, but merely an accidental by-product of cumulative changes. However, when hybrids have significantly reduced fitness, there may be an evolutionary pressure to limit interbreeding - there are a handful of such cases known.

Speciation can not occur while there is significant gene-flow between two groups of organisms. The gene-flow has to be cut off or at the very least fall below the threshhold at which the populations genetics are homogenized, at which point there has been speciation. The species can however not be detected until they've accumulated any autapomorphies.

As is probably obvious from these examples speciation can be reversible if gene flow is cut off but later resumed.

There is no qualitative difference between population and species; they grade into each other with diminishing level of interbreeding.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Bas Pels

2010-09-06T13:11:43+00:00

racoll wrote:
Do you agree, Racoll that the cited piece would ultimately define 'species' as 'population'?

Difficult question, as there are many examples of single species with huge ranges, comprising hundreds of "populations", yet all individuals are morphologically and genetically conservative.

Thank you. Conservatism is an aspect I did not take into account. And yes, a fish (or any other creature) should be sufficiently different in order to become another species. That's obvious

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Shane

2010-09-06T16:05:40+00:00

So I don't care so much about the species my Ancistrus which I found in the arroyo Aquas Blancas in Uruguay - it's an Ancistrus (which tells me a lot about how to take care of them - feeding, behaviour) from the arroyo Aquas Blancas - which tells me the rest of how to take care of them (waterflow, water values, temperature)

I long ago came to this same conclusion myself. 9 times out of 10 genus tells you all you need to know. Combine that with some basic habitat info and, for an aquarist, it is a lot more meaningful data than a binominal name.

I am hardly suggesting anyone throw all their L numbers together to breed freely since they are not described spp and thus can't produce "technical" hybrids. I just wanted to point out the actual definition, from a taxonomic standpoint, of a hybrid. Also, since L Number designations have no basis in science it is not applicable to come to scientific conclusions based on their behavior.

-Shane

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by jbmm

2010-09-06T18:58:40+00:00

MatsP wrote:I'm 99% sure there were pictures of similar "hybrids" at the L-Welse meeting in Germany last year.

make it 100%, that was an interesting topic in Hannover!
You might be able to find some sheet photo's on the website

Anyone with interest should visit the next event!
Mats? you gonna be there?

grtz
Jeroen

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T19:03:00+00:00

I was planning to go last year, but a new washing machine needed as well as a bit of difficulty finding good transport - direct flights to hannover were all at odd hours or VERY expensive when I looked. And other flights were affordable, but a long way away...

But with some better planning, yes, I should be able to do that.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by Bijn

2010-09-06T23:16:34+00:00

Shane wrote:
So I don't care so much about the species my Ancistrus which I found in the arroyo Aquas Blancas in Uruguay - it's an Ancistrus (which tells me a lot about how to take care of them - feeding, behaviour) from the arroyo Aquas Blancas - which tells me the rest of how to take care of them (waterflow, water values, temperature)

I long ago came to this same conclusion myself. 9 times out of 10 genus tells you all you need to know. Combine that with some basic habitat info and, for an aquarist, it is a lot more meaningful data than a binominal name.

and this is why I hate it when people use numbers instead of names (the numbers are for fishes without a name!). A fish that has a name shouldn't be called by it's number. I even try to mention the genus if it's an undiscribed species because that gives a lot off information. I have 3 Hypostomus sp. L117 not 3 L117.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Hybrides :: Reply by racoll

2010-09-07T02:34:06+00:00

Mike Noren wrote:Ability to interbreed is a plesiomorphy, a primitive inherited trait, and as such is not informative. Inability to interbreed is an autapomorphy, a derived trait, and as such is informative. In other words: if two groups of animals can interbreed and have fertile offspring, that means nothing; if they can not interbreed or their offspring has reduced fitness, then they are different species.

Inability to interbreed is not normally selected for, but merely an accidental by-product of cumulative changes. However, when hybrids have significantly reduced fitness, there may be an evolutionary pressure to limit interbreeding - there are a handful of such cases known.

Speciation can not occur while there is significant gene-flow between two groups of organisms. The gene-flow has to be cut off or at the very least fall below the threshhold at which the populations genetics are homogenized, at which point there has been speciation. The species can however not be detected until they've accumulated any autapomorphies.

As is probably obvious from these examples speciation can be reversible if gene flow is cut off but later resumed.

There is no qualitative difference between population and species; they grade into each other with diminishing level of interbreeding.

Really nicely explained here Mike.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Update 07-Sep-2010 :: Reply by James0816

2010-09-07T13:15:11+00:00

Activity levels are on the rise again. That's great news. Did water changes in all the breeders. For some reason, I just can't seem to come across a happy medium in the Cocama tank. Not sure what it is but I still can't get the asthetics where I want them in this tank. Still making progress though albeit very slowly. Think it is finally coming together.

Any of you Oto lovers out here, just so you know, the females run the show. My goodness it was just so fun to watch. I removed everything floating in this tank, did a little rescaping as well as the 20% wc. Started working on another tank and looked over there. They were all doing their customary laps around the tank. So I took a break and pulled up a seat not too far from them so I could observe better. There are three nice plump females in here and they were driving the boys crazy! One would have about 4-5 followers with here. Another female would swim by doing her "bump and run" thing and all the guys would then give chase. This went on for quite some time.

Back in the main breeder, mom and pop Oto are finally hangin out together again. They have been taking a break for a spell. We'll see where this goes.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Please help with sexing L174 + new pictures :: Reply by Barbie

2010-09-07T17:01:54+00:00

It's difficult to say without something to compare for size, but fish #4 has much thicker pectoral rays all the way to the tip than #6. If these fish were mine, I would warm the tank up for a few weeks, feed heavily, and then do some large volume RO water changes for a few days, after redecorating and swapping in and out some caves. I don't know that all Hypancistrus are able to read the books about the way they should look to be which sex. I've had both L46 and L260 that pictures showed MUST be male, yet they laid eggs . I do think you have both sexes in this group, after looking at the pictures.

Barbie

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Author cprize

2010-09-07T13:38:16+00:00

Hi all, i have a problem with my bristlenose, they have stopped breeding and im not sure why.

They had a castle ornament and a boat ornament at the start, i only had them for a week and the dominant male took residence in the Castle, the females were hanging around the castle, i did a 15% water change and a couple days later i noticed a stray single egg, which i came to the conclusion that they have spawned.

About 8 days later the fry were swimming around, they lived for about 15days then started dying off 1 by 1.

I was dropping algae pellets and putting zucchini in the tank, tank is 4ft in size by the way.

After most of the fry died, i decided to remove the cave and boat ornaments, and put 4 bristlenose breeding logs in the tank, along with 30cm piece of driftwood with anubias growing on it. Since then ive noticed that the 3 8cm males have hung around the entrance of the caves but they dont guard the caves how the male guarded the castle, it almost seems that they abandon them whenever i walk towards the tank. The caves entrance are facing the front of the tank.

The 3 or 4 females that are in there are never hanging around the breeding logs, theyre always hiding on the driftwood.

What can i do to get the males to take residence in a cave? I was thinking move the breeding logs and face them away from the front of the tank?

Also the females are never anywhere besides the driftwood, or on the zucchini.

Ive tried 20% cold water changes to try to stimulate them again, but no luck.

Also any tips on keeping the fry alive? They died around 1cm in size.

Thanks.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T13:57:29+00:00

Removing hideous toy decorations is a good start. Most rivers don't have miniature sunken cities in them...

Dying fry can be many things, and it's hard to know what is going on in your particular case. Common causes are "bare-bottom tank", "overfeeding" and "underfeeding", along with "wrong food".

Bare bottom tanks are great for upper and mid-level fish (e.g. discus, angelfish, c*****ds, tetras, etc), but doesn't work for bottom-dwelling pl*co fry [and probably not great for other bottom-dwellers] - look back a week or two, and there is a thread about dying fry, and there is probably another one a couple of weeks or a month earlier. Keep going back, and you'll find more suggestions about "don't keep pl*co fry in bare-bottom tanks".

Overfeeding is pretty self-explanatory: water quality goes down the pan if you feed too much. Testing for nitrogenous waste (nitrate, ammonia, nitrite) will show if this is a problem. Sudden rise in any of these levels will indicate that there isn't enough water changing being made - or seeing old food laying about...

Underfeeding is also pretty much what it says. Doesn't sound like your problem, and it's likely that it takes more than a couple of days from free-swimming fry to reach a starvation that is fatal.

Wrong food is if you feed too much protein in relation to fibre content in the food. Unlikely in your case, as it sound like you were feeding courgette/zucchini [same plant, different names in different places], which is rich in fibre.

I wouldn't worry about where in the tank the females are. Females tend to "hang" where they feel comfortable - they aren't particularly picky about where they live, unless they are looking for a mate, which draws them to the male's cave. They should lay eggs about every 4-5 weeks during breeding season [which can last most of the year if they are given good food and water quality].

Having multiple males is probably not great - they can fight more than breed if you have more than a single male in a tank. It's by no means guaranteed to prevent breeding - I've seen them breed in multi-male tanks, but I have also seen the result of males spending too much time defending the cave to be able to "vow" the females. One male and 1-3 females works best.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by cprize

2010-09-07T14:22:11+00:00

Hi, and thanks for your quick reply.
They have been at the entrance of breeding logs, but never picked one, but the castle ornament was where a specific male always stayed.

Is there a chance that the reason why they havent chosen a cave is that the tank is too bare? I could move the breeding logs to face them away from the tanks front?

Is there any way to "get" the males to take up residence in the logs? lately there all neutral, and hanging on driftwood together.

Also il look into getting a substrate. whats recommended? Thanks.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T14:29:46+00:00

Substrate would be sand or fine gravel. Depends on what you like, either will do fine.

I doubt that the direction of the opening of the cave matters much. What may make a difference is the size of the cave (it should be a "tight fit", but not so small that the male and female don't fit in at the same time), and for sure, if the caves are new, they may not feel comfortable with them for a while.

If you have several caves, why not place them in different places, with the opening in different ways. That way, the fish can choose what it likes.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by cprize

2010-09-07T16:12:10+00:00

The logs are about 15cm in length and the opening is roughly4cm wide and rounded, the breeding logs are like this but longer, and same diameter all the way till the end: http://www.oztion.com.au/vshops/preview ... num=1&#pic

There are 4 caves, and 3 males.

Any ideas?

Also next time they breed should i remove fry? or keep with parents?

Thanks

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T16:16:54+00:00

Well, they do look a little bit tall for my [fishes] taste, but I'm sure they are fine. I use saucers for plant pots that I cut a piece of the side off from, so that it makes an entrance. My 4"/10cm male makes it under a saucer that is about 5/8"/1.5cm high.

As to separating the parents and the fry - differences in opinion exists here, but I have never removed fry from parents unless there is a direct threat to the fry (e.g. there is a predatory fish).

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by Barbie

2010-09-07T16:52:43+00:00

At the top of this forum there is a sticky with questions regarding water quality and tank issues that would provide us with a lot more information to base our replies from . The questions might not seem like they apply to you, but very often we find that the answer is in there, along with the parts that seemed the most pertinent. Thanks!

Barbie

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-08T04:55:22+00:00

maybe they, the parents, know something isnt right in your tank is why they stopped breeding, the babies died after all. sorry about that by the way.

mine liked smaller caves also. and lots of waters changes and big filtration and mostly plenty of veg and fruit. and NLS Growth, and some sinking wafers. and i fed protein about once or twice a week , shrimp, bloodworms, tubifex. the babies can devour a piece of romaine lettuce in now time till its just holy shreds of nothing edible.

be careful what you wish for tho, oce they start they are like little baby making machines.

i m curious to the answers of Barbies questions also.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by cprize

2010-09-08T05:09:33+00:00

Hi all, these breeding logs are very popular, they are using them to an extent, but as they were the castle ornament, ill fill in the questions about water parameters soon.

My guess is that they fry didnt get much food, i usually dump 3 forks with zucchini piece attatched to it, about 10cm, and about 2cm thick. By morning its all gone, also i throw in 5 or so algae pellets.

Ive fed them pumpkin on occasion too.

I will test my water and get back to you, but there should be an explanation why they used that ugly castle instead of these nice logs haha!

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding bristlenose problem :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-08T06:43:19+00:00

mine liked these caves for breeding

i got them from zcliff who used to be at plecofanatics which is gone.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Update! :: Reply by marlin

2010-09-06T00:51:02+00:00

Update - the babies are growing like crazy and are about 1 month old. Culled a couple for bent spines but haven't lost any others that I've noticed.
I noticed dad in the cave last weekend but never saw mom go in. I checked with a flashlight and found cave full of new wigglers...Holy Cow, is this normal, every 30 days? I'm thinking the "Love Shack"/ cave may need to come out for a bit after this, LOL!

I do have a genetics question, both parens are LF but about 20% of the babies have significantly shorter fins than the others. Does this mean 1 parent has a SF parent? Or do some just take longer to grow?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: pl*co newbie with unexpected fry :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T06:28:05+00:00

It is absolutely normal to have new broods every four-five weeks, yes.

Taking the cave out may not work, as the male will likely find somewhere else...

Separating the male from the female may be an option. Taking the female out is likely easier, as you don't have to wait for the male to finish guarding a brood.

Can't say about the long/short fin ratio, as I've never kept long-fin Ancistrus.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: pl*co newbie with unexpected fry :: Reply by marlin

2010-09-09T00:54:42+00:00

Thanks, Mats!

Is it possible to keep the 2 fry groups together for a bit? Or will the 1 month old ones pick on the new ones? Does anyone successfully keep multiple spawns together for a month or so?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: pl*co newbie with unexpected fry :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T08:35:39+00:00

Should be fine, as long as there is enough food and the water quality is good. Frequent, large water changes is required to keep that going.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: pl*co newbie with unexpected fry :: Reply by krazyGeoff

2010-09-09T09:51:57+00:00

marlin wrote:Thanks, Mats!

Is it possible to keep the 2 fry groups together for a bit? Or will the 1 month old ones pick on the new ones? Does anyone successfully keep multiple spawns together for a month or so?

Hi Marlin,
I have my batch (same ones mentioned previously) in with the parents and a previous batch at the moment, in a standard 2 foot tank.
I'll be moving them this weekend as the food requirements are now just starting to cause me water quality issues, if that helps.

Geoff

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: l204 needing some advice :: Author Luis.Ventura

2010-09-08T07:52:41+00:00

Good morning everyone,
I have a couple of L204 and a third element is to arrive soon, the ones I have I am sure they are a male (younger) and a female (older), but my question is not about sexing is about the tank.
I have a 52 Us gallons Tank(I think...its 200 Liters) 3 pumps of 900Lph and a Fluval 405 that is 225gph to move water around I think these are more then enough no?
The bottom is filled whit 1/2 cm of not abrasive dark sand and the rest is all wood (loads of wood).

Now my problems are....
I was warned that L204 are a beautiful but filthy animal because of the amount of wood they eat, I do clean the tank every week but I feel that is not enough, there is always some specks in the water column, in the morning I have a mountain of dirt in the same spot every single day (the water takes it there), in every weekly cleaning I have the feeling that I should take all the wood out so that i could properly clean it, but that way i would disturb way to much my little pretties.
how can I improve my cleaning's?

All Deco is Wood, loads of wood, walls of wood piled up in the laterals and back of the tank leaving space in the front so that the fish could swim, I am not sure if it is to much wood in there since I never seen a L204 only tank.
a advice in the wood quantity/disposition/whatever would be really helpful since I am kinda lost here.

I am using a mix of clay caves and coconuts caves, I have seen somewhere that they like more bamboo/coconuts/woody caves, so I am using the wood in the tank to stuck the coconuts to the side walls where if needed I can take the black paper that I put there and see if I had any eggs.
I am not sure if I am doing it right, should the coconuts be on the floor or I can continue to put them on the sides?
the more caves I put the better it is no?

In the tank I also have sterbai corys and emeral corys (brochis) and one lazy platydoras armatulus and lots of cherry shrimp.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T08:56:56+00:00

I'm sure around 3700 lph turnover in a 200 liter tank is more than enough to keep these fish happy - it's about 18 times turnover. I have tanks that I've had (theoretically) 20x turnover in, but that's certainly enough for any species that likes flowing water - I'm sure they can technically tolerate more.

As to "keeping the tank clean", I think with these fish, that's just impossible... One could perhaps construct some sort of mechanism that collects the dirt in some way [a coarse filter of some sort, or perhaps some sort of "sand-trap" [1] type filter - but it would require frequent cleaning to avoid anaerobic activity], but it's not possible to make the fish not produce sawdust, and that will simply make the tank messy.

[1] A sand trap is something used for the road-drains and such, to catch sediments [sand mainly, hence the name]. To make a sand-trap, you would use a fairly deep container, such as a bucket, and let the sediment ridden water run into the bucket, and use an overflow outlet at a quite high level to get the water back out again. The sediment will settle at the bottom of the bucket. You could make one of these if you have a pump to pump water out of the tank into a bucket above the tank. It MAY work to use an external filter with no (or nearly no) media in it, but chances are that it gets a bit too turbulent.
--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by Luis.Ventura

2010-09-08T11:29:57+00:00

Thanks Mats,
shod I keep the tank full of wood?
is there any problem if I get a solution to clear the water of the tea colour aspect?

does anyone have some L204 or similar catfish Tank pics?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T12:34:15+00:00

I have a picture in "My Aquaria" of my P. maccus tank, which has quite a bit of wood in it.

The "tea-colour" would go away with carbon filtration - but I wouldn't worry about it - it makes the tank look natural.

Less wood wouldn't make it "better" for the fish, so I don't see the point of that.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by Simon86

2010-09-08T12:42:03+00:00

Hello

As Mat allready wrote, it's almost impossible to have a clean tank.
I have 8 adults of this beautiful pleaco myself in a 120 x 60 x 30 tank.
The amount of wood doesn't matter. As long as you have wood in the tank, which is needed, you have the dirt

I use a stream pump (5000 L/h) with a filter pad arround. And because this pump is much faster than my main filter, most dirt goes in there. So I clean the filter pad at least once a week and remove most dirt like that!

I can try to make a good picture this evening or tomorrow.

Cheers Simon

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by PlecoCrazy

2010-09-08T12:47:52+00:00

I would leave the wood in there. That will make them feel the most at home.
As Mats said it is nearly impossible to keep the tank free of debris as they eat all the time.

The tea color of the water will not be so bad after a few months. I use the tea color to let me know that I've put off a water change too long.

I'm sure you can add chemicals to clear up the tanins in the water but I prefer to use as few chemicals as possible on my tanks.
I think carbon may help remove tanins from water and that would be fine but needs changed frequently. you might verify that.

Basically anyway you look at it whether through filters or siphoning its going to require frequent maintenance unless you use some creativity with automatic water changes of some sort.

I have never hear of putting caves on the sides of the tank like that but it might not be something bad to tryout. I've always put mine on the bottom but your idea may hold some merit.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by krazyGeoff

2010-09-09T10:08:20+00:00

Luis.Ventura wrote:Thanks Mats,
shod I keep the tank full of wood?
is there any problem if I get a solution to clear the water of the tea colour aspect?

does anyone have some L204 or similar catfish Tank pics?

Hi Luis,
See tank 8 in my aquaria.
I have since doubled the amount of wood.
Filtration is Fluval 405
Circulation = 2 x Tunze 6045 = 9,000 ltr/hr

I vaccume the tank once a week, and perform a 20% water change.
Normally it is quite clear, but as spring has started the tank has gotten dirty. I am hopeing that they are preparing for the rainy season, as they have gotten quite fat.
If I get concerned about the dirty water then I hang a hang on filter on the side and fill it with filter wool.
I never worry about the tea colour as long as the pH is stable.
Cheers

Geoff

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: l204 needing some advice :: Reply by Simon86

2010-09-09T18:39:22+00:00

Hello Again

My tank (sorry for the bad quality, spent all money for my tanks and plecos )

On left side is the streaming pump with filter pad arround. Also on left side I have some wood with clay caves under it. From middle to right side I have like 5 more clay caves different size and then the main filter.

Cheers Simon

[Mod edit: Make image inline instead of thumbnail link --Mats]

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding L260 :: Reply by jac

2010-09-09T19:01:58+00:00

Photo update:

Hardly any drop out of fry lately

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Author blondeyny

2010-09-08T00:51:56+00:00

I am pretty sure it's Ich since I can't think of what else it could be. However, the spots are not as white as I know Ich to be. I've had the bn only a couple weeks. The first 2 pics are when I got the bn...

Then 2 pics now...

Hopefully you can see the spots I am talking about. It's been a couple days like that. I've turned up the temp to 86 and been dosing Ich Attack. I used it on my other bn and it worked well. However there are a lot of spots and it's making me nervous. Should I keep on with the Ich Attack or is something else recommended? I have done salt treatments before, but thought bn's were sensitive to salt.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-08T04:51:30+00:00

I have used Kordons rid ich + in a tank with a BN before and no ill effects.

I cannot really see the spots tho that you mean .

I'm sure someone will come on soon and clarify for you.

hi by the way !

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by Barbie

2010-09-08T17:03:43+00:00

I'd say that looks more like oodinium than ich. That fish is in rough shape. If you don't get him help very soon it will be too late. 86 might be too high, depending on what you can keep your dissolved oxygen levels at. I would use quick cure or a formalin/malachite green based treatment for an infestation that looks this bad. I also always use daily 50% water changes when I am treating sick fish.

Answering the questions in the sticky at the top of the forum might also help us help you with a better course of action .

Barbie

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by apistomaster

2010-09-08T20:37:43+00:00

Bushy Nose have no problem being kept in treatment with 1 tbs of salt/gal for as long as it takes. Less salt will not be of much help.
Oodinuim is easier to cure when you use the recommended medication with salt.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by blondeyny

2010-09-08T23:40:08+00:00

1. Water parameters
a) Temerature range. currently 86
b) pH. 7.6
c) GH.
d) KH
e)Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, levels. A-0, NA-5ish,NI-0
f) Water change frequency 50% approx every other day now with illness
(Most LFS's will check your water and give a list of readings).

2. Tank set up
a) Size. 5g
b) Substrate. none
c) Filtration. Aqueon QuietFlow 10 and a bubble bar
d) Furnishings. one plastic barrel cave- did have piece of driftwood but took it out to use Rid Ich+
e) Other tank mates. none
f) How long has it been set-up? a little over a week, just set up for QT
g) When was the last new fish added? this is the only fish added
h) Foods used and frequency? piece of wafer opposite nights of a piece of zucchini

3. Symptoms / Problem description white/goldish spots as in pics above

4. Action taken (if any) have raised temp and used Ich Attack for 3 days with no visible sign of improvement. Just did another 50% wc and added Rid Ich+

5. Medications used (if any) Ich Attack and now Rid Ich+

Sorry I didn't post this sooner. I should have realized I really hope it's not Oodinium. I haven't seen any "gold dust" on him. Will it show up as specs like Ich as well? I have only read info saying it usually looks like gold dust or velvety. I didn't want to take any chances so switched to the Rid Ich+ and added salt. I am so scared I'm going to lose this lil one.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by blondeyny

2010-09-09T12:10:12+00:00

So far so good. Checked on it this morning and seems ok. It's hanging out in the little cave thing. I was worried the combo of the Rid Ich+ and the 1tbsp salt in the water would stress it. Temp is still at 86.

RidIch+ says to do a 25% wc before dosing. Do I really need to, or as other instructions I've found dosing it with salt, says you don't have to. I just don't want to screw up the temp and salt in the water going back into the tank.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T12:32:48+00:00

It is nearly always a good idea to do a fairly large water-change before medicating, particularly since illness in a tank is most often caused by some sort of water quality issue.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Marbled Ancistrus has Ich :: Reply by blondeyny

2010-09-09T21:51:35+00:00

As far as I know I don't have a water quality issue. My water tests all come back fine. As I mentioned I have been doing 50% changes almost every other day, but that was before I started the RidIch+/salt treatment. Just nervous I am going to screw up the salt amounts and kill the lil fella. Not to mention getting the right temp since the temp is elevated. If I don't have to do a wc every day, I want to keep the chance of stress down for the bn.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding L270 :: Reply by jac

2010-09-09T19:09:32+00:00

Today I collected some fry out of the breeding tank to transfer to a growing up tank. Falling more in love each time I handle these beautiful fish. Parents are coloring darker and have a beautiful pattern, juveniles are awsome I think
The oldest are now 6 months old and messure around 4cm, so that proofs that when I first got my L270 they were about 6 months old too.

Here are some pictures of today

Fry are of different age, from a few weeks to 6 months.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Breeding L270 :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-09T22:07:05+00:00

beauties!

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: need some help :: Author cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-08T15:15:22+00:00

how do you tell sex on a common pl*co. i got 12 of them for free and want to know how to breed them also. any help would be nice will get pic latter on in the day. all so how do i set up the tank

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T15:28:42+00:00

Why do you want to breed common plecos? They are available in nearly every shop (for very little money), grow too large for most people to properly care for them throughout the fish's full life... What do you plan to do with the hundreds or thousands of babies you get? If you do not have contracts with a wholesaler already to sell them, you are unlikely to be able to sell the off-spring - your LFS probably wont want to have more than a hundred or so per batch - say once every couple of months, and if you have a dozen fish with equal number of males and females, you should be able to produce several thousand every month.

Where do you live [it does say aroura in your profile, but there is no country or other information to tell us WHERE aroura actually is - which the "rules" actually say you should have]?

Do you have a large pond dug out of the ground with just "mud" walls (that is, built without a liner)?

If you don't live somewhere where there aren't common plecos as an invasive species, I would suggest that you should only breed them indoors to prevent further spread of this fish.

As to sexing, have you had a look in the FAQ (under Help! in the menu) - it does explain there. But given the number of them, one would think that it's very unlikely that you have only one sex - it is, assuming the whole group breeds about 50/50 m/f ratio, statistically, one chance in about 2000 that you have all males or all females - that seems very unlikely.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-08T19:43:35+00:00

well mats p i do have a hole seller i can sell them to. and i live in Colorado. and iam just looking to breed these guys first to help me breed some rarer plecos. i just want a little experience first. so any help

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-08T19:57:36+00:00

So, I expect you've just mistyped your location and mean Aurora, CO, which is near Denver. Winter high temperature in Denver is abour 40'F. This is far too cold for these being outdoors.

So, you need an indoors tank. Given that they probably should be about a foot or so when they are mature enough to breed, we're looking at a tank that is at least 2ft x 2ft x 4ft - but you also need to have enough space to have 2ft deep caves in the tank, and enough space for the males to feel secure, so if you actually plan on getting a dozen fish in a tank, we'll probably need something that is more like 4ft wide and 8ft long, and about two foot deep. Do you have a tank that sort of size at the moment? And suitable filtration for it? Because if not, you're looking to spent something like $4000 to breed fish that you get perhaps $0.25 each. So, to recover that investment, you either need to breed a large amount of valable fish, or you need to breed about 16000 common plecos (and sell them). Is the wholesaler local to Colorado? Do they sell all over the country?

Would it not make more sense to breed for example common Ancistrus. They can be bred in a average size tank, 20-30gal size is perfectly fine.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-09T02:56:01+00:00

well i do have a 600 gallon breeder tank witch is bigger than the tank that you told me is recommend to me. and it is up and running fine. and my hole seller does ship out of the country and locally. and i do not have any other plecos i can get experience on. and the reason i want to get experience with these plecos is because if i kill them i wont fell bad because they did not cost me a arm and a leg. not if some one gave me bristlenose plecos i would try to breed them but i dont have any right now. and i dont have any money to spend on any. so if you know any one with bristlenose plecos her in Colorado or wants to ship them. that wants to get rid of any for free let me know

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by L number Banana

2010-09-09T03:24:07+00:00

Hi cichlidman16yearsold,

Nice to see younger people getting into catfish

It would certainly be an idea to trade these fish for smaller pl*co to breed like the ones MatsP suggested, the bristlenoses, Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus. Some pet stores will do a trade. You won't get 12 for 12 but for many kinds you only need a male and some females but not twelve. Look up the information on the link above and also check out Shane's World tab on the top and look under Reproduction and have a nice cruise through Catfishology - lots of good general info there.

You also said that if they die, you won't feel so bad but beware that most catfish have such obvious "personalities" that after you've had them for a while, losing one is like losing a puppy or a favourite cat. With catfish, most keepers are pretty devestated when they lose one, even if it's free.

What's in the big tank right now? Will they be okay with the eggs of your plecos or are they the type to eat them? Is it empty?

Also, You might want to consider putting Colorado in your profile so others in your area will know you're near and maybe trades can happen at some point.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T07:07:49+00:00

And the wholesaler has told you in writing that they will buy htousands of common plecos at tiny size from you? These are normally sold at around 2" or bigger, and the size of tank to keep a couple of thousand fry to that size is just enormous - 1000x 2" is at least 2000 gallon.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-09T20:37:17+00:00

yes my hole seller has told me this. if you dont want me to breed these fish please tell me and i wont. and please send me or have some one give me some thing i can breed

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T21:05:47+00:00

I don't want you to spend a lot of effort on breeding common plecos, and here's why:
1. More common plecos aren't needed in the hobby - yes there are plenty of them sold in fish-shops all the time. But 99.9% of the people who buy these fish do NOT have a 600 gallon tank, which is rougly what you need for a 2ft fish, and if these fishes are quite capable of growing to that size. How many of your class-mates/work-mates (at 17 I expect you are in school, but if you are not, then I expect you do some sort of work).

2. I don't realy believe it's EASY to breed these fish as a hobbyist, for a number of reasons. Mainly space and water maintenance, but I'm also not sure how easy it is to actually trigger them to breed in a tank - they may need more variation in temperature than can easily be achieved indoors - outdoors, when the seasons change, you automaticaly get varying temperatures.

3. I doubt that if you have a 600 gallon tank and related filtration etc, that you can't affort the $10-20 per fish to buy a small group of common ancistrus. For five fish + shipping from this auction, you have to pay $30, and you'd have a good chance of getting both males and females.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1284244949
(I have absolutely no idea if this seller is good, bad or inbetween - it was the just one I picked at random when searching on aquabid - there were at least ten auction and many of them "buy now" when I searched for "Ancistrus")
These fish are of course small, so they would have to grow out a bit - probably about 4-6 months.

If you want to flood your wholesaler with fish that you have bred, why not do that with fish that are actually beneficial to the hobbyist, rather than fish that will undoubtedly lead to disappointed keepers in one way or another. Common plecos grow too large for average home aquaria, and they are very tolerant to poor water, so will outlive just about any tank-mates, which means that they will (peacefully) kill their tankmates by producing too much waste.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-09T21:42:05+00:00

but the hole reason i want to breed these fish is because i have no money right now and i cant get money for awile. to get any Bristlenose. i got these common plecos for free. so if some one would like to give me Bristlenose plecos for free i would try to breed them

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-09T22:04:59+00:00

How large are your common plecos? If they are not adults, you are most likely going to spend more money on food for these fish, than you would on buying and feeding a decent group of Ancistrus.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by cichlidman16yearsold

2010-09-10T03:06:22+00:00

most of them are like 11 to 15 inches long

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-10T06:46:37+00:00

Well, drop in a bunch of large, 2-3ft sections of drainpipe or similar. Feed them quite a bit, keep the water really clean, given them good current in the tank (something like 10x turnover, so 6000 gph in your 600 gallon tank). And save up some money for getting another few large tanks, as the babiess will need space to grow.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: need some help :: Reply by crkinney

2010-09-10T13:56:08+00:00

Out were you live a cattle tank 7ft round and 3 ft deep should be easy to come buy That should help your space problem .
On the other hand ,If I was you I would listen to these good ole boys that do this stuff all the time and don't waste your time with this type of fish.
Save up a few buck and start with a couple of neet ones to enjoy.leave the breeding to the pro's
Just note. there are so many common pl*co's in florida they are unwanted.
good luck

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Change of behavior of L15's :: Author fair1889

2010-09-06T22:34:55+00:00

I have had a group of 6 , what I believe are L15's for a couple of years now.
They have always had a fondness for cucumber and courgette and it is always totally devoured by the following morning.They show little interest in prawns or mussells etc.
They have always spent the days in caves .
Now everything has changed. The cucumber has been going uneaten for about a week now.
They are eating bloodworm as they always have , when they can beat the cory's to it.
They have all but one totally shunned the caves and are under or on the top of bogwood and the caves.
They seem totally fine apart from the change of behavior.
Water is fine and no different than before. Any ideas??

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Change of behavior of L15's :: Reply by fair1889

2010-09-09T22:45:11+00:00

Has no-one got any ideas?
I am worried it could be an internal parasite. I have 27 other tanks in the fish house and have no other problems

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Change of behavior of L15's :: Reply by PlecoCrazy

2010-09-10T04:20:59+00:00

Other than the usual tank and filter tidiness I'd check the tank temperature. They can start acting goofy if the temp gets too high or low.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Change of behavior of L15's :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-10T05:18:34+00:00

any change in behaviour is definitely a cause for closer looks I agree.

I havent had those particular pl*cos but it says in the species info on this site that they prefer meaty foods, omnivore with a preferance towards meaty foods, maybe they are bored of the veg?

It also says they prefer rock piles and wood tangles?

do they look different physical then prior? Or have strange/different poo?

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Change of behavior of L15's :: Reply by fair1889

2010-09-10T15:20:01+00:00

|Thanks for the reply's
I have tried them periodically with prawn, mussel etc but with little or no success as I had read similar research. Temp in the fish house is pretty much a constant 29
so no change there.Fitration is good with no ammonia or nitrite present and minimal nitrate with a tds of 120 (water after HMA filtration is 90)
The only thing recently to effect things has been a rise (8.9!!) in ph on my tapwater due to the water people flushing the pipes. |I lost some Chocolate c*****ds after doing a large water change without checking the ph on the aged water . I didn't do a water change on the L15 tank and the ph was the normal 7 so didn't think that was the problem.
They look no different physically
below is a picture of tank and fish from my archives[img][IMG]http://i786.[/img][/img]
[img][[IMG]http://i786.[/img]/img]

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Iatuba Tiger pl*co :: Author Julie

2010-09-10T15:51:33+00:00

I'm sorry if this is a duplicate question, but with my minimal skills at searching (or rather at finding answers!) I thought I'd ask.

Is this just another name of a known fish, or is it a new as yet un-named pl*co? Just curious!

Thanks!

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Author 900801

2010-09-10T15:30:11+00:00

Could i get some advice as to are these a pair?
Thanks

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-10T15:38:47+00:00

There are good pictures of these in the Cat-eLog in this species:
Pseudohemiodon sp`marbled`

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Reply by 900801

2010-09-10T15:43:23+00:00

Thanks for the speedy reply. Yea i tried using that to Id the fishes but haha i'm still not too sure.

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-10T15:57:08+00:00

Neither am I. It would probably help if we saw a mouth-shot, as the area of mouth are the best way to tell the difference. Males have different mouth to manage the eggs.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Reply by 900801

2010-09-10T16:14:01+00:00

hmm

fish 1

fish 2

South American Catfishes (Loricariidae - plecos et al) :: Re: Need sexing advice for my Chameleon Whiptail :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-10T16:16:08+00:00

First one looks male, but I'm not sure what the second one looks like.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: B.Platynemum on Dried !! :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T00:48:55+00:00

Nice info. Thanx Rob. My questions are actually about compatibility: see 2nd thread.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: smallest tankmate :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:41:58+00:00

I take it these two threads are twins??
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30675

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: amblydoras nauticus :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:48:52+00:00

knifegill wrote:I found several at Liam's in Chinatown and these two were the best-looking. They are awesome fish, very active and cute. Just sharing. As usual, this forum thinks my picture is too big, so sorry for the loss. But if you're also logged into MFK, you'll be able to see these:

What are the coordinates of the Chinatown? Are we talking Seattle?

To resize a pic, one may simply use Microsoft PhotoEditor and choose a "resize" option and choose less dpi, for PC-viewing 75 dpi is plenty!

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: GOOD TANKMATE? :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:55:29+00:00

I guess too many - too broad of a question. People do not know where to start?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Looking to buy a gulper....... :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T02:12:18+00:00

Do you mean an Ogre catfish, Asterophysus batrachus? I've heard LFS workers refer to Ompoks from Siluridae family as gulpers too. Perhaps they were wrong, though.

I never had one but would really like to have. Riverwonders had one 1-footer for sale at $500. Ouch.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Cetopsis Coecutiens (Blue Whale Catfiish) :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T02:38:14+00:00

Nice education guys, thanx!!! Is there a centralized thread for such a discussion of pros and cons of beef heart diet? If yes, this thread may be good to link to it and also it'd be good for me to continue reading up about this.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Tig Pattern Fade :: Reply by Redtailrob

2010-09-07T10:47:04+00:00

This fish has neither lost any more colour/bands or returned to it's former colours.
I noticed yesterday that it also has some scratches/grazes on its flanks so maybe it's scraping with a tank mate??
Sat in the fish house with a small torch in the pitch black for about an hour last night trying to spot any culprits but didn't see anything.
The things we do for our fish huh???

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Author xrayjeeper83

2010-09-07T07:00:22+00:00

I found a Batrochoglanis raninus (bumblebee jelly catfish) and im wondering if an african brown knife fish would be a suitable tank mate?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Reply by Silurus

2010-09-07T08:53:52+00:00

They should be fine together. Just make sure there isn't such a size disparity that one will eat the other.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Reply by sidguppy

2010-09-07T10:34:22+00:00

if the tanksizecan have it: get a group

Xenomystus nigri is a very shy fish when kept as single, but in a group of 5-6 they will show all day
it's remarkably peaceful; most knifefishes (both old world and new world) are territorial, some go into extremes.

as piscivores go; the Black Knife does eat fish, but small ones.
i've kept a group 15 years agoor so; they reached 20cm/8" after quite some time (it grows slow) and the largest prey were female guppy size

the raninus however can and does feed on prey up to half its own size.
raninus too can be kept in a small group; they are peaceful and often they share the cave if it's roomy enough.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Reply by xrayjeeper83

2010-09-07T12:35:16+00:00

They will be going into a 55G tank. I do need to get some PVC to make caves for them, but its already planted with rocks to hide under. I have only found the one raninus, a local rescue guy has a 5.5in specimen that was given to him.

Do you believe with a 55 I peacefully have the raninus and say 4 abk?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Reply by grokefish

2010-09-07T18:08:21+00:00

Lucky find dude, I would love to find one have been looking for years.
Got any piccys?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Batrochoglanis raninus tank mate :: Reply by xrayjeeper83

2010-09-08T02:07:52+00:00

Im told he is about 5.5in long and the guy only wants 10 bucks. He is a rescue from some guy that had to go overseas for a year

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Author TheFishGuy

2010-09-05T01:50:57+00:00

Welcome to The Chronicles of Nugget. Nugget is a South American Redtail Catfish.

Before you start with the normal "You can't keep this fish" I assure you I can and will keep it. The purpose of this thread is to show people NOT to get one of these fish. I've spent the last four years rescueing giant fish and placing them in homes I felt were the best for the fish.

I plan to catolog his growth rate and diet along with any other changes that may come about. From the RTCs that I have rescued in the past this guy seems to have hatched about two months ago making his birthday July 4th. He's two inches in length including tail. I will always include tail in the measurements.

The background is this. A local store, Johns Aquarium, is going out of buisiness. This was one of his very last fish he had in stock, I bought it so no one else would. John knows how I feel about monster fish and knows how upset I was he was selling pacu and big cats. At any rate, I've decided that Nugget, so named by my oldest daughter, would be a part of the family for as long as humanly possible. The decision took about 45 minutes to make along with alot of discussion with my wife. We have a 14' 1200 gallon tank that will eventually be his home. For the moment he's sharing tank #18, a ten gallon tank with a handfull of 1/4" jewel fry... I'm sure in a week or so he'll graduate to a thirty, then a 70, then a 125, then a 185, then the big tank. In the summer he can spend his time out in the pond

At any rate, here he is, Nugget.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by brashgordon

2010-09-05T04:02:31+00:00

Good luck with nugget.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by worton[pl]

2010-09-05T08:17:21+00:00

Hey,

I must say that is sounds very reasonable . Looks like at least one RTC will have a long and happy life . And Nugget is really cute!

How long RTC may live?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-05T08:49:00+00:00

worton[pl] wrote:How long RTC may live?

50-75 years - perhaps more.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-05T11:52:51+00:00

i've never seen one that small. he is adorable the potential or rather inevitable beastie!

I look forward to seeing his progress!

damn he is cute!

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-05T13:24:38+00:00

On the way home yesterday the kids and I were discussing how old we would all be when I'd have to rent a back hoe to bury him...Because I'll be too old to dig by hand! LOL

Apparently he enjoyed his first nite here. He's got a tiny little belly on him! LOL

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:23:00+00:00

Lots of luck, Jonathan! I admire your confidence, courage, commitment, and lack of superstition. You must surely know EXACTLY what you are doing to start such a bold and ambitious thread. I hope I will see big N. if I ever make it to Orwell.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Suckermouth

2010-09-06T01:47:39+00:00

MatsP wrote:
worton[pl] wrote:How long RTC may live?

50-75 years - perhaps more.

--
Mats

Where is that estimate from?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T07:00:26+00:00

From discussions on this forum. Do you have a better one (that is, more scientific)?

Edit: I just searched the internet, which said about 15 years. But I expect those fish are around 3ft long - nowhere near their ultimate size, and die from lack of suitable tank-space, rather than because they are "old". Bearing in mind that many of the tiny catfish live for a dozen or more, I'd definitely expect one that can grow to five feet to last a lot longer than a 2" fish...

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Bas Pels

2010-09-06T10:05:44+00:00

Although a RTC is not a Platydoras - they are not even the same family - but still, I got my Platydoras in 1988. I expect them to live for quite a few years, reaching 30 years or more. RTC is much larger

However, taking care of big RTC is not easy, and therefore I would interprete any info ion the internet as a minimum

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-06T13:29:22+00:00

My hope is that this thread will help to inform many fish keepers about this fish from my first hand experience. The crazy part about this is I've nver raised a RTC and firmly believe in they should not be sold. The only reason I bought this one was because the store was closing, this was an opportunity to get one but not enable the owner to run out and get more to sell... I also have the unique experience of rescueing these fish from other fish keepers who could no longer keep them. I've nursed one back from near death and urine burns which stained his skin a permanent yellowish color. So I've kept the beasts, but only as beasts.

My last attempt at keep a large cat was a TSN named Tigger. Tigger jumped from a 14' tank after being spooked. He shot out like a bullet and hit a block wall knocking himself out and I was forced to euthanize him. RTC's don't seem to spook as easily as TSNs so my hope is that incicdent will not happen again.

The 1200 has an automatic water changer on it of the DIY design and is completely adjustable according to stock. I can go from a drip an hour to 500 gallons and hour. So water quality will not be an issue in the future. I wish I had that option when I rescued the one near death. Having to wait for the tank to drain and re-fill took hours...

No one has asked, but the reason Nugget is in a ten gallon is so it is no challenge for him to find food. Once he gets slightly larger I'll start to train him to hand feed and get him off live food entirely.

The same method is used when breeding fish, keep the fry in small confines so they can find food easily... Then move them to something larger once they equate you as the source of food.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-06T14:28:32+00:00

Sounds like a great project for many reasons. The main one is that most people who say things like "Don't buy one of these fish" [me for example] have never kept them, and are immediately told "Well, you've never tried to keep one, have you?" [usually in conjunction with the original poster assuming that because a 55g tank is so much bigger than the biggest tank they have ever had, is adequate for rather large fish!]

I'm not entirely sure that 1400 gallon is enough for the entire lifetime of the fish, but it's definitely good for some foreseeable future. I'm sure you are aware of this too!

And your explanation of the 10g tank is good for me. A 2" fish will work fine in a 10g tank - it's only a problem when the owner has nothing else and no good plan to get something much, much bigger.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T15:37:17+00:00

I think we touched upon this in another thread, but people say RTCs can get to 5-6 feet, I mean witnesses who travelled to S. America. As I mentioned once too, Mr. Ray Lucas of Buffallo NY said he saw firsthand 7-8 foot specimen. Oh my! I'd dearly, dearly love to see one live this size. 14', 1200 gal will not even begin to cover for such a giant, but likely they grow real quickly only in the first years and it will take ten or tens of years to get to the 5-8 foot marks? Also, what glass thickness and glass pane length can handle a blow of a 30-pound 5-foot spooked fish?

As for the age, in prior discussions, I think the majority felt 30-50 years was a reasonable expectation under ideal or near-ideal living conditions throughout their entire lives.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-06T23:48:43+00:00

The glass in my tank is the same size and thickness as a friend of mines glass in his 15,000. 3/4"x30"x72". Only difference is my glass is horizontal, his is verticle... So I don't think the glass thickness is an issue.

As for m tank not being big enough, I'm aware, and I'm also aware that I'm not following my own advice by saying buy the tank then the fish because life's what happens when you're making other plans!

I do have plans for a fish house to break ground in 2014. it will be a 40x60 building with a few ponds set up on a heated floor, but the building will house at a minimum a 20K tank for pacus and large cats. I have the land and the know how to build it (I'm a carpenter/contractor) and have many friends in the trades, the only one of which I'll be calling on is the mason. I want the tank to be block. Haven't decided on shape or final dimentions but it will more than likely be "L" shapped. I'm a big fan of having breaks in line of site.

By the time it's ready for Nugget, Nugget will be ready for it!

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-07T02:37:40+00:00

Amen.

Good luck!

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-07T05:13:31+00:00

are the two white spots you can see on his back ok? Not fungus or something or is that normal.

such a cutie pie.

no they shouldn't sell those poor guys, he is so precious. i am glad he is with you.

wow you had a big fish jump out of a tank? poor thing.

can they live outdoors in big ponds?

what do they eat ? as they age i am sure it's a different diet?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T08:53:40+00:00

andywoolloo wrote:wow you had a big fish jump out of a tank? poor thing.

Just the same way small fish jump out. If you have seen salmon jump rapids, you know that pretty large fish can jump quite well. Large pimelodids are ambush predators, so they will "attack" using good acceleration.

can they live outdoors in big ponds?

If you live in a country where the pond temperature will stay above 25'C/77'F throughout the year [and not get too hot during warm time of the year], either through use of heating or naturally, you can. Where I live, the ground temperature is about 14'C/57'F, so it would require on average 11'C/23'F over ambient temperature to keep one of these - that's a lot of heating!

what do they eat ? as they age i am sure it's a different diet?

Almost anything: fruit, fish ("dead or alive"), "seafood", etc, etc. Obviously, as they get bigger, they will need bigger portions, but realistically, the same type of food should work throughout their lifetime.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-07T09:49:26+00:00

As he gets bigger I'm very excited to try fruit. I had never tried it with the others that were here...

Here's a link to a photo album about Fankie. There's before and after pics...

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/jstraz/Frankie/

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-07T10:32:20+00:00

before and after what?

big tank.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by sidguppy

2010-09-07T10:48:38+00:00

I don't think this is a fish that would live for such a longtime

some large catfishes are in for the long haul; but those are slow growers.
some loricariids and Doradids for example would be able to live for a few decades and I expect the larger Mochokids to be in there for 30-40 years; there was an adult Synodontis granulosus at Verduijns that was imported at subadult size in 1973 and it died just 2 years ago.
wich means that it was probablyolder than 40, ince they do take time to reach mturity

Red Tails however grow incredibly fast, almost as fast as Pangasius. they should be able to reach 3-4 feet in just 2 or 3 years. fish with growspeed like that are often shortlived.
they grow fast, lay enormous amounts of eggs and die after a few breeding seasons.

the longlived fishes are always slowgrowers;they take 5 or even 10 years to reach a true mature size and then last for years and years
the Sturgeon is a fine example of these

no, I don't think any red Tail lasts for 50 years; I think 10 at the most is a much more realistic figure, since it's of the "grow fast, spawn in the millions", not the "grow slow and go in for the long haul" type.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by taksan

2010-09-07T13:14:31+00:00

sidguppy wrote:I don't think this is a fish that would live for such a longtime

I think 10 at the most is a much more realistic figure, since it's of the "grow fast, spawn in the millions", not the "grow slow and go in for the long haul" type.

I had one for 27 years ......

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-07T13:30:37+00:00

taksan wrote:I had one for 27 years ......

And how large was it at that point, and do you know what caused it's passing?

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-07T13:42:47+00:00

sidguppy wrote:Red Tails however grow incredibly fast, almost as fast as Pangasius.

Not in my hands, Alex. My (3"-5" bought) RTCs doubled in size in a few months and tripled in size (length really I mean, the weight increase is far larger) in ~4 months (~ same as my Leiarius Marmoratus and Pictus). My ID sharks (3"-4" bought) added maybe an inch or 1.5" after the same time! I wish they grew faster.

But your logic has good merits, I just wonder if there are many exceptions to this rule of thumb. Sturgeon is a really nice example you give.

andywoolloo wrote:before and after what?

apparently before means "just rescued" - his shape and state is pitiful! After means after Jonathan took good care of him - he looks healed up and healthy, good color, form but still holds his fins close to his body - possibly a sign of phycological trauma from a long time abusive keep.

TheFishGuy wrote:Here's a link to a photo album about Fankie. There's before and after pics...

Why Frankie? I was hoping to see the Jumper-Suicidal-type TSN Tigger because that fish was just discussed above.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-08T00:00:11+00:00

Look closer at the before and after pictures. When we got him all or most of his fins were worn down to nubs after living in a 125 for 7 years...

As for RTCs only lliving ten years. I believe you are wrong, while your theory is somewhat true you need to take into account that RTCs are apex predators. They grow quickly in first few years to avaiod beig eaten, then they slow down. I know of one that is in it's mid twenties and still acts like a juvi! LOL He's just over four foot...

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by andywoolloo

2010-09-08T04:47:25+00:00

oh i do see what you say now. much improvement. i was distracted by that big tank and nice sand.

now that's an awesome fish.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: The Nugget Chronicles . :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-08T10:42:58+00:00

Great news! Nugget ate a sinking carnivore pellet last nite... Practically by hand! LOL Something about hand feeding a 2" redtail doesn't compare to feeding one that mistakes your hands as food! LOL

No more live food for Nugget! LOL That didn't take long! LOL

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Marc van Arc

2010-09-04T19:52:59+00:00

Now this is annoying.
Went to Zajac yesterday, was late due to several traffic jams so had to rush a little. Had one good look in every tank and at the name/price tags. No auchenipterids, except for C. perugiae.
Specifically asked at the aquarium counter and both persons told me they had no auchenipterids (Trugdornwelse) in stock. Okay, no problem. Got my bucket of flakes, a heater and several other things.
Today I phoned Alex for he'd been to Bremen to collect some Madagascar c*****ds last Thursday. He told me that prior to Bremen he'd visited Zajac and another shop nearby. When I told him I'd visited Zajac on Friday, the first thing he said was: did you see the Tatia?
I thought he was pulling my leg. No, I said, there weren't any. I specifically asked.
Oh yes, he said, there were. I don't know if you already had them or not, but there were Tatia at Zajac.
Not funny!
Combine that with the fact that the other shop had Markiana and Rhoadsia (rather rare characins) and you can imagine that I cursed after the phone conversation.
Wrong place, wrong info, wrong time (I don't need a car to cover 4 kms an hour; I could as well walk that distance). The thing that annoys me most however, is that my holidays are over and I have to start this Monday. And the agenda tells me the oncoming weekends are booked for all kinds of reasons. After 7 weeks of relative freedom it's quite irritating that just now I'll have to plan according to someone else's scheme again. No doubt it'll be on a Saturday.
But which one?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by The.Dark.One

2010-09-04T21:57:18+00:00

What's even more annoying Marc is that they were TRUE T. galaxias

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Marc van Arc

2010-09-04T22:48:23+00:00

The.Dark.One wrote:What's even more annoying Marc is that they were TRUE T. galaxias

You're joking, right?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by wrasse

2010-09-05T17:42:03+00:00

Calm, Marc. Calm.

I think you are about to blow a fuse

Mind you, I would feel the same. I've yet to see a true tatia galaxias.

It seems like shop staff with poor knowledge is a global problem...

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Marc van Arc

2010-09-05T17:50:54+00:00

I've taken the time today to write a polite email to Zajac. Not to complain, but to explain the situation and to see if they're willing to have a look for me (which species, what price and if they're still there). Looking forward to their reaction.

Meanwhile there may be some luck involved, because the tank they would have gone into is causing problems since yesterday evening. So far no auchenipterids are involved, but the Barbus everetti are showing unwanted behaviour (like squeezing fins and dying).

And although this always seems to happen at the end of a holiday, I'm still perfectly calm

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by The.Dark.One

2010-09-05T19:24:36+00:00

Marc van Arc wrote:
The.Dark.One wrote:What's even more annoying Marc is that they were TRUE T. galaxias

You're joking, right?

Course I am Marc, hence the twisted evil smilie!

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Junttis

2010-09-06T18:07:34+00:00

Marc van Arc wrote:Could any of the keepers of Auchenipterus nigripinnis confirm (or deny) that these are very slow growers?
Mine don't seem to grow anymore and are currently 8 cms TL.

Confirmed. I've had mine for over a year now and they have grown about 1-2cm max. A month ago i moved my nigripinnis to a bigger (550L) tank and i lost two of them. Luckily i still have eight left.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Marc van Arc

2010-09-06T18:34:17+00:00

Thanks. How large are they atm? (TL)

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Junttis

2010-09-06T18:55:18+00:00

Marc van Arc wrote:Thanks. How large are they atm? (TL)

Biggest one 8.5cm TL. Others 6-8cm.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Marc van Arc

2010-09-06T20:29:53+00:00

Thanks again.
Sorry you lost those 2 specimens btw. What happened?

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Yann

2010-09-07T07:07:43+00:00

Hi!!

so basically the question is are these fish what they are supposed to be...or something new??

And if indeed they are the intended species, what cause them to stop growing??

Cheers
Yann

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members? :: Reply by Junttis

2010-09-08T13:54:29+00:00

Marc van Arc wrote:Thanks again.
Sorry you lost those 2 specimens btw. What happened?

One jumped out from the bucket while acclimatizing and the other one died due stress i think.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Sorubim lima and BN :: Author kizno1

2010-09-04T16:31:08+00:00

I saw one today that was about 8" and £24. Im really tempted but im not sure if it would work in my new tank. Would one be ok in a 5'x2'x2' tank? and would a adult eat a fully grown common BN. I dont think one will work but just though i would ask.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-04T16:53:14+00:00

I wouldn't think that a 5" BN would be at danger from even a fully grown Sorubim lima.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by kizno1

2010-09-04T16:57:21+00:00

MatsP wrote:I wouldn't think that a 5" BN would be at danger from even a fully grown Sorubim lima.

--
Mats

Thats great then i though people where going to say the BNs would disappear. Does £24 sound like a good price for one at 8"?
The plan for the stocking is
2 gold severums
1 BGKF
4 red head tapajo geophagus
1 female Nicaragua c*****d
3 BNs
1 lima
and then a few dithers but not decided what yet.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by MatsP

2010-09-04T17:02:10+00:00

£24 doesn't sound like a bad price, but to be honest, I don't know how much they usually are.

--
Mats

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by kizno1

2010-09-04T17:10:18+00:00

Fair enough. I thought it seemed quite good. It looked in good quality aswell looked well feed and was active.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by TheFishGuy

2010-09-05T00:13:56+00:00

If you have some sort of verticle type decor like a stick even... They love to rest on them with thier snout pointing down. Mine always did a head stand on a plastic brontosaurus! LOL

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by kizno1

2010-09-05T10:08:33+00:00

TheFishGuy wrote:If you have some sort of verticle type decor like a stick even... They love to rest on them with thier snout pointing down. Mine always did a head stand on a plastic brontosaurus! LOL

Haha. Ive been looking around and alot of places say they often do it. The tanks not set up yet but there will be loads of wood and bits.
What do you feed yours? most places just say muscles, prawns and pellets.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by Viktor Jarikov

2010-09-06T01:28:17+00:00

mine love any meat, never taken a pellet in their life with me (~0.7 year, 5", 10", and 12").

In NE USA, they go for ~$15-25 for 3-4" ones.

South American Catfishes (Everything else) :: Re: Sorubim lima and BN :: Reply by kizno1

2010-09-06T10:20:02+00:00

What meats do you feed them?
Is your one at 12" fully grown because the size seems to vary alot on sites between 12 and 24"