a pair of 3 foot channel cats, are they not?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hi all, a week ago I pumped out 90% of my 12,000 gal outside pond to net out two big cats, about 3 foot each, that (apparently) have been eating some of our koi. I've put them there year earlier thinking that they are too slow to catch koi and will just eat the pellets we threw in there. I am afraid that was a big and expensive mistake. Anyway, they are now in my indoor 2500 gal tropical pond in the basement. I snapped some pics when transitioning them from 45 F water into 77 F water over the course of the whole day - still, of course, very stressful for them but I believe they are adjusting now ok. Originaly, my better half and I caught them at a local decorative fish farm but I never knew exactly what genus+species they were. I think they are channel cats and look similar to a 1-foot one we have too, who, we are sure, is a channel cat (the # of rays in the anal fin is 27, which at least excludes blue channel cats).

Any well-grounded opinions pro or con?

Thank you.
Viktor

[Viktor Jarikov]

3 more shots

[Viktor Jarikov]

here our 1 foot one, that we are sure is a channel

[nvcichlids]

I thought they looked like a sp of bullhead... but I may be wrong (brown bullhead?)

[Silurus]

Yup, they are channel cats.

[trebor69]

I thought they looked like a sp of bullhead... but I may be wrong (brown bullhead?)

3 foot long bullheads? haha Id love to see that

But some of those pics do have a bullhead color to them for some reason

[sidguppy]

the difference is easy to see, despite these having a brownish coloration and fairly blunt heads:

the caudal (tail) fin.
Bullheads have rounded or squared caudals, channel cats have V shaped caudals

[nvcichlids]

I thought they looked like a sp of bullhead... but I may be wrong (brown bullhead?)

3 foot long bullheads? haha Id love to see that

Well in my honest opinion, the person's hand in the picture would have to be 1' long for those to be 3'... just did estimating and it didn't look 3' soo went with what I originally thought they were .

The tail is the give away..

[Shane]

Well in my honest opinion, the person's hand in the picture would have to be 1' long for those to be 3'... just did estimating and it didn't look 3' soo went with what I originally thought they were .

Everyone overestimates the size of their fishes (anglers, aquarists, and myself especially) but you are certainly right that the 3' statement is quite off the mark and could lead to a misidentification. Using the hand, bricks and most important aquarium, as guides these appear to be about 16-18" SL, hardly a small cat, but less than half of the size in the thread title. They look to be in the prime of health and clearly have been well cared for.
-Shane

[trebor69]

well I dunno....my eyes must be off then

I see two cats that are easily more than 3 times as long as a hand.

I have no idea how big that hand is...but mine measures 8.25 inches from wrist to tip of middle finger.
How long is your average brick? 9 inches?

Those two fish could easily be pushing the 3 foot mark IMO...and it was probably just an estimation anyway.

[Bas Pels]

Personally, I would estimate the fish under the hand to measure 7 times the with of the hand as shown.

If I have my hand the same way, it will be some 10 cm width

So a quick guess, 7 * 10 = 70 cm - close to 2 ft

[Viktor Jarikov]

All right. Thank you much all! Sorry, I have not been on line for a bit and now I see we have a discussion here. Let me try to clarify. My haste made some waste I guess - I am indeed off the mark with my poor eyeballing estimate, just as Shane pointed out but not as far off as he thinks. My "bragging and/or wishful-thinking" 3' title (did not mean to brag though) was refering to the TL, not SL. Anyway, the portion of my hand+almost all of the forearm as (almost unfortunately ) depicted stretches 19" - yeah, I am a tallish dude at 6' 3" with ape-like, somewhat abnormally long arms, hands, and fingers . The cat under my arm, if he had his tail straigthened out, would be 1.30 times longer than my "measuring 19" stick" in the photo. The cat behind, would be 1.37 times longer, which makes them 24.7" TL and ~21.2" SL for the fronter, and 26" TL and ~22.4" SL for the backer. Yeah, a somewhat far cry from 36" TL or SL.

Sorry for the confusion. The main point remains, they are channel though, right!?

Cat-eLog indicates channels would hardly grow beyond 27.6". Yet, at some other ernest forums, e.g., aqualand http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Channel.htm - see e.g., 7th pic down (could be a blue channel, which grow up to 65"??), people speak of 3-4 foot pet channel cats.

Viktor

PS the brick is not a standard one but a leftover from my patio construction. It is a small bit under 6" in length. The tank is a 55 gal, 48.5" long measured on the outside.

[paleatusfreak]

To me, they look like 2 fat bullheads. The color and 'face' really look like it. That size is a little more believable too.

[sidguppy]

that doesn't change that fact that they are not

look at the tailfin
as said: NO bullhead has a tailfin like that, channelcats do.

[Viktor Jarikov]

there is an informative article on catfish of NY state, including bullheads - yellow, brown and black at http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7046.html Not sure which one is meant by the contributors who mentioned a "bullhead". Perhaps there are even more bullhead species??

[MatsP]

I think it depends on what you mean by the term "Bullhead" - all of the genus

Ameiurus

may be considered bullheads, but not all are actually called bullheads by their common name [if they have as recognized common name at all].

There are 7 species in the Cat-eLog, which matches the number presented in Fishbase.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

a small excerpt from DEC NY site:

The brown bullhead is a medium sized fish - averaging about eight to 14 inches in length. It has the typical catfish appearance of a broad, flat head and dark barbels around the face. Its square tail and mottled side coloration distinguishes it from other members of the catfish family. The brown bullhead is generally dark brown above and yellow to white on its belly, but as is the case with most fishes, its color may vary with its surroundings.

While it is most often mistaken for the brown bullhead, a yellow bullhead can be distinguished by its white chin barbels. In addition, the yellow bullhead has a somewhat smaller (eight to 12 inches) and huskier body than a brown bullhead and its tail is rounded rather than square.

Averaging eight to ten inches long, the black bullhead is the smallest of New York State's bullheads. It is even tougher than the brown bullhead and can withstand extremely high water temperatures and silty conditions

The channel catfish is the largest of New York State's catfish and is a formidable sportfish. Channel cats reach trophy size of 20-plus pounds, have good fighting qualities, and are very good to eat.

In appearance, the white catfish is a mix between a channel catfish and a bullhead. It grows larger than a bullhead, but smaller than a channel catfish. Its body is husky like a bullhead's, but its tail is forked like the channel cat's.

Common Name Scientific Name
Brown Bullhead Ameiurus nebulosus
Yellow Bullhead Ameiurus natalis
Black Bullhead Ameiurus melas
Channel Catfish Ictalurus punctatus
White Catfish Ameiurus catus

[sidguppy]

that's THE problem wich I have with common names: it's an inconsisted mess

ameiurus has 1 species that's not called a bullhead, but called the White Catfish
it is also the only Ameiurus with a V shaped tail......

by equating Ameirus = Bullhead, the name would not only include 1 species that looks a fair bit like a Channel catfish, but it would also saddle a species with a wrong common name, since it already has a few others; none of which include Bullhead.

[Viktor Jarikov]

hence, it appears quite unlikely that my fish can be bullheads, based on the size alone. Of course, the tail shape is definitive, as pointed out by sidguppy!