Unknown Hypancistrus sp. - Orinoco basin

[Unungy, posts: 633]

LDA19? L340? hmmmm

This pleco just looks to different than LDA19, L340's pics in our catalog.
None of the attempts of relating them with L340 have been very conclusive yet. I welcome the idea that these can live among them.
I certainly keep them in my collection until I can get some more of them in the near future. I should be able to take more pictures of them in couple of weeks to see if there has been any changes in color or pattern.

[lukan, posts: 17]

Hi Saul,

Whatever they are send them to the cold North. I'm pretty sure the water here in Toronto will make them even whiter like snow. Joking aside, it looks good. It would be nice to find out from the expert what they are?

Cheers,
Marte

[pleco_breeder, posts: 803]

The larger ones appear to be mature, so I'm curious how big they are.

Larry

[Unungy, posts: 633]

The larger ones appear to be mature, so I'm curious how big they are.

Larry

They are 3" inches and the juveniles are 2.2-2.5

[TwoTankAmin, posts: 191]

Saul- my offer from last night in chat still stands. Happy to help you out

I have never believed that 98 was not a 46 variant, but I am neither an ichthyologist nor a geneticist. Just a hunchologist. I love reading topics like this one, but I disbelieve almost everything I read in terms of IDs. Last year I posted pics of my 173b from Glaser, I was told in no uncertain terms by a number of folks that these fish were not 173s- people told me they were several different things. Now in this thread I statements like this:

It seems ever more likely that in the area around Belo Monte in Rio Xingu Hypancistrus forms are evolving into several species, subspecies and so on. And it's not all about the pattern, they vary in eye size, fin shape, body shape, length, and they all seem to be able to produce variable offspring. Whether they crossbreed in nature is unproven, but it doesn't seem unlikely.

Most of the Xingu forms are known to produce some young every now and then that stand out and look very different from their siblings. Maybe those we define as L173 are such rare one-offs?

I wonder where this statement was last year, certainly it wasn't in my thread. Like I said, love to read, but rarely believe. Let me add, I am so unqualified to make pleco IDs that I never even try. (Well that isn't completely true, I can ID an H. zebra).

Consider that example above about human beings of different races interbreeding and it not being a hybrid since humans are all the same species. The thing is, humans are a pretty diverse looking species. We are short, tall, fat or thin, all colors. We have all sorts of physical difference that make us all not look identical. Potentially, why should this be any different for plecos?

Lets just compare two distinct populations- professional basketball players and jockeys. Now if you get 100 of each in two groups and ask a being from another planet if these two are the same species, what do you thing the answer would be? Heck just put a black, white, Asian and Native American of similar builds next to each other and you will easily confuse our alien visitor. So why should this same type of exterior variation not be possible in other species, icluding plecos?

I think DNA is the only way to know the answers in terms of plecos. However, I highly doubt anybody will underwrite the research. I am aware of a genetic project involving wild angelfish, but they are not as diverse as the plecos "appear" to be.

In the long run all of this will be moot, at least in terms of the fish unique to the Xingu. The fish exclusive to this river will soon be all gone in the wild and knowing which were which species or variant wont matter all that much any more.

[Janne]

Yes and since LDA 19 and L340 are considered as the same...

But they do look different and the pattern of an LDA19 will not change to look like L340, color maybe and that we know change with mood, water parameters and some other factors. Why mix very nice LDA19 with L340 when it's possible to breed and get very nice offspring keeping them apart.

Last year I posted pics of my 173b from Glaser, I was told in no uncertain terms by a number of folks that these fish were not 173s- people told me they were several different things. Now in this thread I statements like this

Breeders mix up species or at least L-numbers and supply wholesalers like Glaser etc. there are no a,b or c species and it's not either correct to offer species of any fish where you not have all correct information about the original fish that are used for this breeding as a certain "new" specie. This problem start with the fisherman and ends at the one that buy them, fishermen say one thing and exporter use the same info, importers use the same info what they receive from the exporter, retailer use the same info they receive from the exporters and the buyer and breeder use the same info they got from the retailer, the breeder than breed them and sell to the wholesaler or retailer... and they look nice so lets give them an extra letter a, b etc. but... the fact is that fishermen deliver to a supplier that collect fish from many fishermen at different locations, these are often mixed just because they all are "L66" (example) and the exporter sell and ship them mixed as L66...

We are short, tall, fat or thin, all colors. We have all sorts of physical difference that make us all not look identical. Potentially, why should this be any different for plecos?

Because pleco's can't read.

I think DNA is the only way to know the answers in terms of plecos. However, I highly doubt anybody will underwrite the research.

It has just started and need a little more time.

In the long run all of this will be moot, at least in terms of the fish unique to the Xingu. The fish exclusive to this river will soon be all gone in the wild and knowing which were which species or variant wont matter all that much any more.

Not true, some species will probably get extinct but far from all species in this river.

Janne

[johannes, posts: 51]

Nice specimen from a known locality with already given L-number, could be the "Emperor" version of that number, not necessarily a different species.

So in this case, for the one posted by unungy could be the "emperor/mega crown" version of L340.
emperor or mega crown version, i believe, exist in every L-number.
Some we have not seen or some we have seen once or twice.
My theory is that the very nice L236 speciemen is the megacrown/emperor version of L236. The other or normal looking ones are just not so special.
Then another example would be the Hypancistrus sp 1. That would be the emperor/mega crown version of L129.