Some catfish from Suriname...

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kamas88
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Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:07 pm

Hi all,

any ideas on this one (No. 1):

Image

Image

Image

Caught in the rapids of upper Nickerie river.
In the same rapid I caught also this one (No. 2):

Image

Image

The second might be Pimelodella cristata ?!

This one is from a creek of Corantijne river (No. 3):

Image

as well as this one (No. 4):

Image

Cheers,
Karsten
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:24 pm

# 2 looks like Pimelodella gracilis, so it could well be another Pimelodella, such as cristata. The other species reminds me of a fish I once got, sold under that very name. But it did not stop growing until it was over 30 cm.

I think it was responsible for a few missing fishes

Then it died, and unfortunately, as the fish was rather shy, I did not see the corpse, but I later saw dead fishes due to massive pollution. I lost almost all the fishes in the tank (1300 l of water ...)

My advise - be very carefull with them. I must have done something wrong, but the result was dramatic.
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Narwhal72 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:43 pm

I saw some of the fish in picture 4 at Ted Judy's place a month or two ago. But for the life of me I can't remember what they were called. I do know they like very soft, very acidic water.

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by bekateen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:09 pm

Narwhal72 wrote:I saw some of the fish in picture 4 at Ted Judy's place a month or two ago. But for the life of me I can't remember what they were called. I do know they like very soft, very acidic water.
Currently, TedsFishroom.com has Cetopsis parma listed in his stocklist. Is that what you were thinking of?

Cheers, Eric

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by bekateen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:16 pm

To me, #4 looks a lot like Helogenes marmoratus, although AFAIK, the locality would be all wrong if this specimen is from Suriname. None of the other genera in this family have much in the way of an adipose fin, which #4 seems to have without a doubt, albeit small. Could it be a new species of Helogenes?

Cheers, Eric

EDIT: The Annotated checklist of the freshwater fishes of Suriname by Mol et al. (2012; Cybium, 36(1): 263-292) [here:http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rap ... 000000.pdf] states that Helogenes marmoratus is found in the Corantijn River in Suriname.

Thoughts - If this is a range extension relative to what we have on file here, should this be added to the CLOG for this species? Or is there some reason to be concerned and not add this locality?

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by bekateen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:35 pm

As to #3, it looks like a Tatia to me. The checklist I referenced above lists 3 species of Tatia from Suriname:
Tatia brunnea
Tatia gyrina
Tatia intermedia

According to that checklist, both T. gyrina and T. intermedia have been reported in the Corantijn River.

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:08 pm

Hi,

for No. 4 I also suspected Helogenes marmoratus (they do have an adipose), No. 3 is certainly member of centromochlinae.
Centromochlus/Tatia creutzbergi/gyrina is the closest that I have found (I would rather exclude T. brunnea or T. intermedia). However I don't know much about all these genera.
Does Pimelodella gracilis exist in Suriname ?!
P. cristata is listed for Nickerie river, the 2nd species listed for Nickerie is P. macturki which looks different. But I think we caught also this one. I will have to search for a pic...
Could the first one be a Cetopsorhamdia ?!

We only brought home No. 3 & 4.

Cheers,
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:31 pm

Hi,

could this be Pimelodella macturki:

Image

Cheers,
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by bekateen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:42 pm

Maybe not? See this photo of the same species at Fishbase.org: http://fishbase.org/photos/thumbnailssu ... s=macturki.

The fish in the photo has black pigmentation on the dorsal fin which your fish seems to lack... or are your fish just faded in the photos? Do they have a blackish spot on the dorsal fin?

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Silurus » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:48 pm

Using the Mol book on the fishes of Suriname, your fish are identified as follows:

1 - Imparfinis pijpersi
2 - Pimelodella cristata
3 - Tatia gyrina
4 - Helogenes marmoratus
Image

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Silurus » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:51 pm

Where was the last fish collected?
Image

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Narwhal72 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:40 pm

Helogenes marmoratus is the fish I saw at Ted's.

This was over the summer and I don't think he has them available any longer.

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Jools » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:57 am

And the Mol book is THE book on the ichthyofauna of the region. I would like to add the fishes that are not represented on the site to the cat-elog if that is possible? Would you be able to email them to me if you are in agreement @kamas88?

Cheers,

Jools

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:55 pm

Hi,

thanks for the IDs.
Silurus wrote:Where was the last fish collected?
In the same rapids of Nickerie river just as the other heptarids (close to Indira Gandhiweg, formerly JFK Highway).

Jools, sure you can use the pics. I can send them with 1200px, but not sure that I have your mail address...
The three heptarids ?!

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:57 pm

Hi,

another one to ID from Gran Rio:

Image

A Chasmocranus ?!

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Silurus » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:28 pm

The last one is Chasmocranus longior.
Image

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Silurus » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:40 pm

The last Pimelodella is a mystery, as the only one with a short-based adipose fin known from the Nickerie River drainage is P. macturki (which has a distinct humeral spot and black edges to the dorsal fin that your fish lacks). Pimelodella megalops and P. procera are the only other species from Suriname with a short-based adipose fin, but they are only known from the Marowijne River drainage. It cannot be P. geryi, which has a long-based adipose fin and is only known from the Marowijne River drainage, so that leaves P. cristata as the remaining candidate. But the adipose fin is too short (unless this is a young fish and the adipose fins grow longer as they age....I highly doubt this is the case).

In short, this may be P. macturki with highly stressed coloration, but I cannot be 100% sure.
Image

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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:10 pm

Hi,

thanks again, Silurus !
One thing that still confuses me is the description in Mol's book that doesn't really fit to my "P. cristatata".
longitudinal black band thin and not continuing on the head
The band is not really thin and it is continuing on the head.
But all other mentioned/listed species don't fit.

Cheers,
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by kamas88 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:42 pm

Hi,

I have found some more pictures from the heptapterids from Nickerie river.
These ones have been collected more downstream but also in the Nickerie drainage (in a small creek, not far away from the main river):

Image

Image

These should be the same as the ones posted before, right ?!

At upper Nickerie river we also caught this one at the sand bank which is IMHO a rather typical Pimelodella cristata but different than the other Pimelodella (No. 2) posted before:

Image
Pimelodella cristata

Pimelodella geryi looks closer to No. 2 but the caudal fin lobes don't fit (upper lobe should be longer in P. geryi but is shorter in No. 2 ?!
Any other options ?

Cheers,
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Re: Some catfish from Suriname...

Post by Silurus » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:53 pm

I'm pretty sure the top two pictures are of P. macturki. I can see a humeral spot and a dark edge to the dorsal fin based on the melanophore pattern I can make out.
Image

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