Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes

[Shane]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/ar ... 12663.html

-Shane

[Scleropages]

This just in: loricariid roe makes excellent caviar and goes great with Cachaça (Brazilian Firewater). And now a word from our sponsor, Agua Luca.

[jp11biod]

This is terrible.

The pet and hobby industries need to be regulated like any other.

Extraordinary measures, including public education, are needed to prevent the release of non-natives into local ecosystems. It is irresponsible to not do so.

[MatsP]

This is terrible.

The pet and hobby industries need to be regulated like any other.

This sort of regulation is unlikely to be good for our hobby, and it's usually the "thin end of a wedge" that eventually ends up with "nothing is allowed".

Extraordinary measures, including public education, are needed to prevent the release of non-natives into local ecosystems. It is irresponsible to not do so.

Education is definitely needed. In fact that _IS_ the way to solve this problem (because regulation will only work for small parts of the entire industry, and will not really solve the problem of pre-existing hobby fish).

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

The "cry foul" article appears a bit aimed at inflammation, perhaps in hopes of higher readership.

If one tries to think like an official who is put in charge of solving the problem of people releasing non-native fish into our waters, they may think like that:

-- "total" 90%-100% control and surveillance of the fish-keepers is impossible atm
-- partial, 50%-90% successful, enforceable control would require unreasonable workforce and tax payer's money
-- partial 10%-50% control (as it is right now) will not be acceptable, eventually, to the bosses and the public anyway
-- so legislation needs a change
-- but then how to enforce it? cheap and effective is a scare/scapegoat tactic - it works better than education - most people pay attention to the news but could care less about/have no time for an education, so when they see the scapegoat cases on TV, the message will be delivered
-- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers

FL fish and wildlife spent tons of money trying to eradicate walking cats but the cats won - the cats are firmly established all over south FL. AFAIK, they banned arapaima from FL. I think it's only a matter of time that more is coming. E.g., people catch peacock bass in Miami area regularly. The system will be "perfected".

[MatsP]

-- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers

From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!

--
Mats

[Scleropages]

AFAIK, they banned arapaima from FL.

Oh man, no arapaimas? What's next, burmese pythons? Oh yeah, they've already been banned: http://tinyurl.com/7895g3c

My cousin, who is an avid fisherman, regularly catches peacock bass and festa's cichlids (Cichlasoma/Heros festae) near Miami in FL.

[Viktor Jarikov]

-- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers

From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!

--
Mats

That'd be real bad. Well, they may point to that case, cited here as well, that Loricariidae survive Poland winters in the 7 degree C water (near or not a power plant) and ban them federally. There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.

[MatsP]

There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.

From my own personal experience, a regular car can take quite a few boxes of fish if one is that way inclined. And I doubt that the general populus would be "impressed" by a rule saying "If you carry anything that looks like a polybox or a cooler, you're to stop at the state-border inspection point, no matter what kind of vehicle you drive"...

--
Mats

[Mike_Noren]

AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders, and have mainly been released either due to floodings or because the breeder went bankrupt and released his stock.

In short, they'd all have been free in the Everglades no matter how much you inform and regulate hobbyists.

Also, fwiw, the oscar and the peacock bass in Florida were introduced intentionally by state agencies to improve fishing.

[Scleropages]

Also, fwiw, the oscar and the peacock bass in Florida were introduced intentionally by state agencies to improve fishing.

My cousin mentioned that peacock bass put up a great fight when hooked. Imagine hooking an arapaima with a fly rod. Ha!

[sunfish]

My cousin mentioned that peacock bass put up a great fight when hooked. Imagine hooking an arapaima with a fly rod. Ha!

I once had a "behind the scenes" tour at the zoo and we got to feed the Arapaimas. Using roughly foot-long trout (which vere swallowed in whole). You'd need a VERY sturdy fishing rod. It was really cool to be standing above a tank with several of these huge fish (at the time around 35-40 years old). I've been fascinated by them ever since I was a little girl.

[Mike_Noren]

On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?

[Shane]

AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders, and have mainly been released either due to floodings or because the breeder went bankrupt and released his stock.

Many non-natives were also released as part of State programs. Peacock bass (Cichla spp) were released on purpose and despite being non-native there is a limit of two per day per fishing license! There are also limits on several non-native bass spp.

Huge top predator destroying native fish populations... save it! Gentle algae eating catfish... poison the lake.

You can't make this stuff up.

-Shane

[crkinney]

Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish
mule

[racoll]

Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish

Haha, nice idea! Unfortunately the crooks will just translocate them to new areas to make them easier to harvest. This is the inherent problem with commercialising invasive and harmful species. It backfires.

[Suckermouth]

From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!

--
Mats

Be that as it may, several states have species-specific bans, such as on piranhas and stingrays.

[Viktor Jarikov]

There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.

From my own personal experience, a regular car can take quite a few boxes of fish if one is that way inclined. And I doubt that the general populus would be "impressed" by a rule saying "If you carry anything that looks like a polybox or a cooler, you're to stop at the state-border inspection point, no matter what kind of vehicle you drive"...

Agreed. They do videotape all lanes though and I saw them seize a small covered van/truck that failed to stop - our tax money in action.

I do hear of the cases and arrests based on illegal fish trafficking. Recently, one guy got in hot water for flying in several hundred thousand of alligator gar fry from Texas to FL and not having the license to do it. He thought the seller had a license and it covered it. Alligator gars are now being protected while not too long ago they were garbage fish any angler was free and even encouraged to kill.

AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders...

I hear of the known cases of releases every time I have a substantial conversation with LFS workers. People dump their unwanted fish left and right without a second thought but thinking they are doing the humane, good thing. Others have different interests. I was told of the stories (?) that Chinese immigrants released walking cats in a lake near Miami because they wanted to keep catching them and eating them. Then, the nature found a way out, like in the Jurassic Park.

Many non-natives were also released as part of State programs. Peacock bass (Cichla spp) were released on purpose

Good to know. I wonder if this will prove as disastrous as State aquatic biologists handling the "natural" ways of managing the Great Lakes.

[Scleropages]

Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish
mule

Excellent proposal. I now appoint you as the Special Armored Catfish Czar of Florida.

On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?

Mike, thanks for sharing. I was not aware of S. inscriptus. To answer your question: yes! Now, how much does it cost to get to Myanmar... err, Burma... no, uhhh... Myanmar?

[sunfish]

On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?

Wow, truly amazing. How come the coolest fish are always too big?

But based on what people are willign to pay for beautiful "standard" arowana the price for this beauty will be VERY interesting if it is commercially available.

[Suckermouth]

On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?

Wow, sucks I don't have university access to this paper, it looks neat!

[racoll]

Wow, sucks I don't have university access to this paper, it looks neat!

I'll send it to you, but to say that you'll be unimpressed with the quality of the science is perhaps an understatement. Personally I think it was irresponsible to describe it in this way, given that this species is now no longer protected under CITES (only S. formosus is), and so it is entirely legal to harvest and sell such an endangered, and previously protected creature from the wild.

Given its impressive patterning, I'd say that demand will be through the roof.