Better than L-Nos. (Shane made me do it)

[Scleropages, posts: 425]

A quick description of what is a Bioregion? (now in the glossary)

A geographical area described in terms of its unique combination of plants, animals, geology, climate and water features – an area defined by natural boundaries and distinct living communities rather than artificial borders.Birger

Thanks for that. I was wondering what you meant by bioregion as I read into your post. Out of curiosity, how many bioregions are there in Africa? How many are there in the world?

[Birger]

Out of curiosity, how many bioregions are there in Africa? How many are there in the world?

According to Ecoregions of Africa and Madagascar http://www.amazon.com/Freshwater-Ecoreg ... 1559633654 there are 93 African Bioregions

I tend to stick to the 10 principle bioregions also called Icthological provinces as used in http://www.nhbs.com/the_fresh_and_brack ... 55276.html and http://www.amazon.com/Brackish-Fishes-A ... 270991526X

As for the world...lots of them!!!

Birger

[Jools]

L Numbers have built in DRM in the fact that the "holotype" is a copyrighted photograph. This fact has created the vast majority of L Number confusion. I am talking about a system much larger than what L Numbers can do. One that is much more of a "creative commons" in its design and implimentation.

On the DRM thing, I don't agree with that really. It is not true in the vast majority of cases these days (it was a problem way back n the 90s, absolutely) and, it, in its self, has not caused the bulk of the confusion. That, to my mind, was mostly caused by aqualog. I appreciate that it's more of an issue in the US than the UK.

So, back to the "per-Linnaen" system. What is it meant to do? Is it a naming system like the scientific process or is it an identification system?

We are currently using several different naming conventions for loricariids in the cat-elog. We have scientific names (Acanthicus adonis) and their variations (Hypostomus cf_ternetzi), L Numbers Spectracanthicus sp(l254)), LDA Numbers (Neoplecostomus sp(LDA101)) species named after a collection locality (Oligancistrus sp`lower_rio_xingu`), made up names (Pseudohemiodon sp`peru_ii`) and PC Numbers (Oxyropsis sp(1)).

It might not be clar, by this follows a strict hierarchy. Described species first followed by numbers (which have their own hierarchy) then place names then trade names then "pc numbers". So, this is a system already?

Jools

[Shane]

On the DRM thing, I don't agree with that really. It is not true in the vast majority of cases these days (it was a problem way back n the 90s, absolutely) and, it, in its self, has not caused the bulk of the confusion. That, to my mind, was mostly caused by aqualog. I appreciate that it's more of an issue in the US than the UK.

There is certainly a lot of room for differing opinions as to the why and how L Numbers became so confusing. From my optic the Aqualog fiasco, however, was fundamentally caused by the fact that they (and a half dozen other published books and a 100 websites) could not publish the original "holotype" photos from DATZ. You can't have a system with a copyrighted holotypes and expect it to remain true to purpose.

This brings up something else I have been thinking about. Assigning an "identification value" to photos that could be used when making IDs. Thus a picture of the holotype (or the original DATZ photo for an L Number) might be a 10, a picture taken at the holotype location a 9, a picture taken in the drainage a fish was described from an 8, etc. all the way to a 1 which might be "Bought at LFS with no available provenience." It would also allow pics in the cat-elog to come up in order from 10 (we are positive that this is a picture of the sp in question) to 1 (this looks more like the species in question than it looks like anything else. Such a system would be particularly useful for L Numbers.

I realize that the cat-elog is way too big (and data associated with photos is often lost in antiquity) to ever impliment such a feature but one can muse.

So, this is a system already?

Yes, it is a system and not a bad one at that. The question I am asking is could it be streamlined? I also agree with Birger that a really good system would encompass all catfishes. I am mainly just using loricariids as an example because L Numbers are a great example for a failed naming convention. That is not a reflection on the people that came up with the idea as the concept was corrupted from both the inside (double number issuances to different spp, one sp with multiple numbers issued, etc) and outside (Aqualog and other publications).

The other big advantage PC would have (as Jools knows very well) is that a web based system could be dynamic. Once DATZ issued an L Number (right or wrong) and the magaine went to press...it was out there in print forever.

-Shane

[Jools]

I realize that the cat-elog is way too big (and data associated with photos is often lost in antiquity) to ever impliment such a feature but one can muse.

It would not be hard to implement this for at least all new pics. A "veracity index" would eventually populate out usefully. However, I don't think a black and white pic of a crumbling holotype should appear before a stonking pic of a fish that is clearly the same (e.g. Hemisynodontis membranacea) but of unknown locality. Maybe a new post on this for the "bugs & suggs" forum is in order?

So, this is a system already?

The question I am asking is could it be streamlined?

Sure, but how? To be clear, you're not suggesting Mystus sp(PC007), right?

I also agree with Birger that a really good system would encompass all catfishes.

Totally agree, in fact it would also encompass AR; so lots of fishes!

the concept was corrupted from both the inside (double number issuances to different spp, one sp with multiple numbers issued, etc) and outside (Aqualog and other publications).

If we think we can invent a system that is free of this type of error, then I do think we're in cloud cuckoo land. Just look at the corrections to the cat-elog which take ages to fix. But, point well made, do get fixed.

The fundamental thing I hear here is that you're looking for a system like the l-numbering system but with the seemingly mutually exclusive attributes of a moniker that vanishes once description takes place BUT has all the advantages of internet age availability.

Tricky one!

Jools