Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

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Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Birger »

images should be looked at and sorted as per this thread http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 19#p267919

Also a bit should be put in about the uniqueness of the spot pattern.(slight changes submitted)

Birger

(more of a note to self)
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Just wanted to support you, Birger, and make sure it is still on the radar. Some collegues appear to be still getting confused when looking at this Cat-eLog entry, calling southern browns spotted... just as I did for a long time. Anyway, beggars can't be choosers :)
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Spotted Bullhead article has lots of issues w/ pics

Post by Chicxulub »

Moderator note: I've updated this post on 2020-10-17 to fix broken links (at https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/) to the catfishes mentioned. That said, the new photos displayed cannot be the same as the original pics in the OP, since the fish in these photos were collected after the post was made.

Hello all,

I would like to address the issue of Spotted Bullheads () and the Cat-E-Log.

Bottom line up front: all but one picture on the Spotted Bullhead article are actually representative of Brown Bullheads.

Spotted Bullheads seem to be a type of catfish that is in the process of becoming part of the mass cultural awareness of the aquarium hobby. As they become well known, they are increasingly misidentified. The problem that we run into is that the sympatric populations of Brown Bullhead () from Florida have extremely similar coloration. They are also dark on the back, have a light belly and are heavily spotted. Due to this extreme similarity in appearance combined with the fact that most people are not aware of the presence of the Florida morph of Brown Bullhead, most people who acquire the MUCH more common Florida morph Brown Bullhead make the understandable mistake that they have a Spotted Bullhead.

Range. The first issue is the range. The Florida Morph Brown Bullhead is found all throughout the SE United States. They are a very widespread fish. The Spotted Bullhead on the other hand is only found in the Suwannee River and St. Andrew's Bay drainages. While not a definitive identifying factor, it is logical to surmise that a more widely spread fish would be more commonly collected. See the pictus/perruno issue for a prime example. Even in the wild, the Spotted Bullhead is quite uncommon (Reference 1).

The differences are not immediately obvious, but if you know what you're looking for, easy to see.

Fins. On a Florida morph Brown Bullhead, the dorsal fin will LACK a conspicuous black spot at the base of the dorsal fin (reference 2). The fins of a Spotted Bullheads will have a black margin with a black spot at the base of their dorsal fin (Reference 1). On Brown Bullheads, the entire fin will be black or very dark colored (reference 2).


Spots. Some populations of Brown Bullhead can have spots on their body, such as the Florida morph (reference 2), but ONLY Spotted Bullheads have ROUND spots (reference 1). The spots on a Brown Bullhead will be jagged and look like glitter or flakes of metal. The spots on a Brown Bullhead are actually an illusion however: on a Spotted Bullhead, the fish is dark with light markings (reference 1). On a Florida morph Brown Bullhead, the fish is actually light colored with dark markings that have a similar effect on the overall appearance of the fish.

Fin Spines. While this isn't a very obvious way to identify a fish through the glass, it is absolutely irrefutable if you're willing to look this close. The Spotted Bullhead will have 15-20 sawlike teeth on the rear edge of its pectoral fin. The Brown Bullhead has 5-8 large, sawlike teeth on the rear edge of the pectoral spine.

Spotted Bullhead (reference 1)-
Image
Image
Note the conspicuous black spot on the dorsal fin and the spots on the dark body.


Brown Bullhead (reference 2)-
Image
Image

Note that the mottling on this fish is, while faded with age and preservation, extremely similar to the pattern that we see on most of the fish that are incorrectly being reported as "Spotted Bullheads".

I hope this post is useful in clearing up issues with these two extremely similar species. The Florida morph Brown Bullhead is a unique and unusual fish in its own right. These fish are actually so strikingly colored that they used to be considered a separate subspecies of Brown Bullhead: Ameiurus nebulosus marmoratus. The use of that name seems to have fallen out of favor in the late 80s or early 90s; I cannot find the paper in which it was found to be invalid. I suspect it was based on genetics rather than strictly morphology. Still, for the sake of the hobby, I feel that the A. n. marmoratus is a useful epithet for this variety.

Respectfully,

Rob
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Re: Spotted Bullhead article has lots of issues w/ pics

Post by Birger »

Thanks, this will help a lot.

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Chicxulub »

Bump;

Curious to see if anything is being done with this. A lot of people get these confused.
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Birger »

I will do this on Saturday....thanks for the push and the information.

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Birger »

I also just thought of something...with just a little more work you could submit you information as it is above to Jools to go into Shane's World as an article.....just a thought....

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Just for reference, Chicxulub means this: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ullhead-ID
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Birger »

As I noted, I spent time yesterday sorting and thinking on this...just did not submit yet...


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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Chicxulub »

Birger wrote:I also just thought of something...with just a little more work you could submit you information as it is above to Jools to go into Shane's World as an article.....just a thought....

Birger
Well that's cool! I just noticed this post; what kind of work would you want to see done? I could work something up like this for the difference with blues and channels, too.

I'm going to try to head out west a bit to catch some real serracanthus this spring so we can have more pics.
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Shane »

I can work an article out of the above. I'll run it by you before submitting it to Jools for "publication" in Shane's World. A second article would be very welcome as well.
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Chicxulub »

Shane,

Please hold off on submitting anything to Jools. I live in NE Florida so I have the ability to collect and photograph both A. serracanthus and A. n. cf. marmoratus for proper diagnostic illustrations, both in tank and in the field. I am in the process of getting a 365 gallon tank up and running and once I do, I'll collect the fish and bang out a new article based on this one with better photography.

I'm on the hunt for I. furcatus and I. punctatus as well. Once I have specimens of those, I'll do an in depth comparison article as well. :)
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Jools »

Chicxulub wrote:I'm on the hunt for I. furcatus and I. punctatus as well. Once I have specimens of those, I'll do an in depth comparison article as well. :)
That would be very welcome, I have four or five articles in my inbox that need a bit of work to add them to the site but I typically have a little more time over the winter months and I'm planning to get them online.

More recently, I've been working with a couple of authors using google docs, although it's browser based (nothing to install) it is functionally your typical word processor (love still using that term) therefore mild learning curve but the difference they comfortably allow several authors to edit the document at the same time or in quick succession as timezones permit. Let me know if that form of collaboration is of interest.

Cheers,

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Chicxulub »

That would be of great interest to me! I have a lot of ideas that I'd love to get out into the community. This would be a great format to contribute to the common knowledge of our hobby. :)
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Jools »

Chicxulub wrote:That would be of great interest to me!
OK, well I will create a blank shared document and send you and Shane links to it. Once it's in final form I will convert it into a Shane's World article.

Cheers,

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

The issue is skillfully resurrected by Narelle on Oct 17 2020: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=49518&p=327383#p327383
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Jools »

Just got this (back) on my radar, will resolve it soon.

Cheers,

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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Jools wrote: 18 Oct 2020, 14:52 Just got this (back) on my radar, will resolve it soon.

Cheers,

Jools
Thank you, Jools. If I read it right, it seems things got stuck when Rob aka Chicxulub got sick with cancer and then divorced at the same time in the mid-2010's. He then had gone to school and got a degree in biology / fisheries and now works for the University of Florida. He has been back on the MFK and stronger but probably all forgot about this.

If you didn't know, Rob now runs MFK, has been for a while now. You might wanna touch base with him if he still wants to, or more importantly has the time, to delve into this again.

Just a thought. Thank you again.
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Re: Ameiurus serracanthus needs to be sorted

Post by Jools »

With thanks to all that helped, this is now sorted!

Jools
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