alternative filter media

[pictus_man_77, posts: 407]

Hi,
Quick (Slightly silly) question, but could I substitute a different media for the stuff already in my filter?

Eg Cotton wool, or a car sponge?

Thanks,
Ollie

[bob, posts: 3]

I kinda remember using cotton wool or cotton balls in a corner box filter many, many moons ago. If I remember correctly, it packs down and becomes useless very quickly. As for sponges, if they are free from impurities and porous, they should work. I have used plastic scourers for coarse mechanical filtration before, but again you must be very sure they are free of impurities. Some have a tiny metal ring in the center.
Bob

[Birger]

Some of the synthetic sponges carry contaminants that are possibly toxic to more sensitive fish and shrimps, I would stay away from colored sponges.

[pictus_man_77, posts: 407]

Thanks guys

[OldMan, posts: 112]

You can easily substitute fiberfill from the nearby sewing store for the filter floss that some filters still use as a polisher. Another easy substitute, if there is room, is to use a plastic pot scrubber for biomedia. It actually has a larger surface area per unit volume than almost any manufactured biomedia like the plastic ball things. The only drawback is that each one is fairly large so they can be hard to fit into many filters.

[TwoTankAmin, posts: 191]

You can use AquaClear sponges which are available in a variety of sizes..

The filter floss is not cotton but a synethetic. It comes in two basic forms- one looks like cotton while the other is more substantial and can be cut to shape- like the poly fiber from a fabric store. if you go to a fabric store make sure you get something that has no chemical inhibitors or fire retardents in it.

[MatsP]

And you rarely should need to replace the filter sponges - so whilst the price in the shop may be excessive, aside from the white "polishing" or "fine" filter, the other sponges last years, so there's really no reason to replace them very often - yes, I know, the manufacturer says to replace them regularly. But the only filters that you really need to replace regularly are those that have a chemical effect on the water: Nitrate reducing filters and carbon filter. Anything else is reusable until it falls apart.

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Mats

[doesdavid, posts: 20]

Hi. Last year i stumbled upon 2 very good filter media's, The first are the industrial scrub pads (their callesd a doodlebug here) these are made of a dripped plastic and 3/4' thick and hold way more then a spondge (brown, blue, red) are course, medium, and fine( any janitorial cleaning store has them. As for polishing I use a material called "better then burlap" sold at H**me D**ot. whenever I buy a new filter, I cut these to the size I need and just keep the charcoal, and bacteria makers. The pads last forever, and as for the cloth throw it away, their 25' X 3' for $7.95, alot cheaper the from the aquarium store stuff. Just clean everything before use, and a folded peice of the cloth is best. I even use all these in my fry tank.

DAve

[Viktor Jarikov, posts: 2276]

Gents, Ladies,
A couple of questions for seasoned collegues. Any general and especially kitchen cleaning supplies like sponges, scrubbers, scourers, etc. ARE often treated with or coated with or contain imbedded bactericidal chemicals. (1) How would one know if they are or if they are not treated? Can one know? (2) If they are, is there a way to neutralize/get rid of these anticeptics that will kill your bacterial cultures you are trying so hard to grow and maintain on your filter media?
Viktor

[MatsP]

Most of these things that are treated with antibacterials will have that as a "feature", so it's probably going to be on the front of the package with fairly obvious writing.

However, the absence of mention of anti-bacterial properties doesn't mean it's good for the fish.

I doubt there is any sensible way to actually get rid of the anti-bacterial compounds once it is there.

I would happily use ceramics and such that weren't meant to be used in an aquarium setting, but sponges and brushes are much more likely to contain things that are added during production (even if it's just as a side-effect of the production process, such as plastic softeners to make it the right "firmness" and such things). Ceramics may be bad if they have very bright colours, but black, white, beige etc should be fine.

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov, posts: 2276]

Thanks Mats! Ok, I've just bought 100 US gal worth of pot scrubbers (red, blue, yellow, orange, green, and purple) for a huge filter I am rigging out of a garbage toter (to service 2500 gal indoor pond in my basement). They came 6 per package with very, very little info on the package from our local 1-dollar stores or the kind. Made in China. No mention of any aniceptic properties/treatments. So according to you (and I guess to common sense), it is likely safe to assume that they are NOT treated. Now, are you implying I should be concerned with some other effects they may have on my fish? Should I soak them (water, acid, base, vinegar?) or wash them thoroughly with detergents? What's the scoop?? Thank you!!
Viktor

[MatsP]

I personally wouldn't use sponges that are NOT made for aquarium use. If you have noticed that the sponges you get for aquarium use are quite firm/rough. This is because they have less softening compounds in them. Some of the softening compounds do eventually leech out if left in water for long enough. It is impossible to know if the ones in your sponges are indeed such that leech out or not [unless you can get the company to tell you - but they probably can't be bothered, even if you can find someone who does indeed know what is being used. It is highly likely that they buy the foam in huge sizes from some supplier, and then cut it down to shape according to what they want, and if relevant glue on a "scrubber pad" - so they probably don't actually know what exactly goes into the foam].

Of course, not all softening compounds are harmful. But sometime a year or two ago, there was a big thing on the news about "hard plastic bottles meant for babies" containing something that leeches out if you use the bottle with hot liquids - such as boiling water to make up baby milk. This is not the same thing that makes soft plastic, but I do know that SOME of the softening agents are supposed to be bad for you - I can't remember what they are called of the top of my head.

It would depend a lot on the value you put to your fish - is it really worth the saving compared to buying bulk volume of filter sponges to risk the short or long term conditions of the fish?

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Mats

[2wheelsx2, posts: 924]

I think there is some confusion here. The aforementioned scrubbers are nylon netting woven together, not sponges: http://wernersponds.com/scrubbies.jpg

As you can see from that website, some people are actually selling them specifically for large sumps and pond bio-media. I am using a huge pile of these in my FX5 and that's a very common media on this side of the "pond" for FX5's and other large canisters.

http://wernersponds.com/biofiltermedia.htm

The cheapest ones are perfectly safe as they are straight nylon. There are fancies with chemical added, scents and all kinds of other stuff you don't want in your tanks.

[MatsP]

Ah, ok, sorry for the confusion. Yes, if it's just nylon string formed into a net and "rolled/folded", then it should be fine.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo, posts: 2744]

I have heard also that green plastic army men are ok to use for the biological media in your filters.

Anyone try this?

[Viktor Jarikov, posts: 2276]

To Mats: although 2wheelsx2's comments are right on the mark, I appreciate your edifying response!! Your concerns with polymer/plastic chemistry and composition ring true to my ear. The softening compounds are called plastisizers. It is never just one organic chemical. A plastisizer is a cocktail of its own with tens or hundreds of chemicals used in them, often times they are all related (belong to the same chemical class) and contain sulfure (as an element) and belong to the class of sulfides or sulfure ethers. Apart from these, there are literally millions of types of other small-molecular-weight compounds imbedded in polymer networks, such as unreacted (unpolymerized) leftover monomer, oligomers (partially polymerized compounds), polymerization initiators, co-initiators, polymerization inhibitors and quenchers, impurities of all sorts, etc., etc. Since they are small molecular size, they have some mobility inside the polymer molecular network and slowly make their way out (leech). Most of them are toxic to humans and other live forms but since the amounts (the doses) are tiny, usually FDA does not ban their use in packaging water, foods, drugs, etc. In a fish tank, there is of course a risk of over-time-accumulation, despite regular water changes.

Now having said that, there are of course great many handles scientists and technologists use to get the right softness of the plastic or plastic fiber or interwoven plastic fiber. The monomer mix, the type of and the degree of polymerization (the length of the polymer chain), the technique used to form a fiber (e.g., extrusion, temperature, etc.), the geometry of the fiber network, to name a few.

The highly publisized case of "hard plastic bottles meant for babies" you are recalling is probably the one involving bis-phenol-A, the leftover monomer that did not get polymerized (the polymerization reactions never go to completion).

To 2wheelsx2: thank you!!! Yes, these are the ones I am talking about or at least they look identical to the ones I bought. I got the idea from the monsterfishkeepers web site, which says this works excellent for great many people. The area per volume rating is also excellent.

Viktor

[2wheelsx2, posts: 924]

To 2wheelsx2: thank you!!! Yes, these are the ones I am talking about or at least they look identical to the ones I bought. I got the idea from the monsterfishkeepers web site, which says this works excellent for great many people. The area per volume rating is also excellent.

Viktor

I got the idea from MFK and cichlid-forum also.

[Viktor Jarikov, posts: 2276]

wow! what a wonderful web-site you brought to my attention!!!! Wernerponds. Thank you, 2wheelsx2!!!!!!! Viktor

[Viktor Jarikov, posts: 2276]

what's c*****d forum?

[Birger]

I have heard also that green plastic army men are ok to use for the biological media in your filters.

Anyone try this?

If you could find them little plastic navy seals may work better ...seriously though it is all about the surface area that a product could supply not necessarily what it is as long as it is non toxic, if you look at the scrubbers, bioballs or the ceramic media(which is what I like but much more expensive) they have a large surface area involved for the size of the item, the little green army men would work better if full of holes. These scrubbers being talked about are definitely cheaper in price and are useful for a number of things around the fish room.

Birger