My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

[Viktor Jarikov]

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[Rodger]

My first look at this thread. I am very impressed with your tenacity! I am afraid I might have thrown the towel in before now, but alas, you have youth on your side. I look forward to what happens next in this adventure. Thanks for sharing.
Rodger

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks, Rodger. On my end, I am impressed with my usually-impatient-wife's patience

I've started on the sump for the two 4500 gal tanks. It will also serve as a water reserve because upon a large water change or a major pump down of a tank(s), it will take 5-10 h to produce enough RO water to replenish it (current RO capacity is ~425 gal/h, ~10,000 gal/day with 6 low pressure (80-100 psi) membranes; starting TDS ~1400 ppm = ~500-600 ppm Ca and Mg + salinity + trace impurities like iron (II) and hydrogen sulfide, ending TDS ~30 ppm; 40' deep well water is steady 74 F year round). While the tanks are being replenished (in this case the sump will be replenished, not the tanks), I must still run the sump and the pumps located in the sump to keep the sump BB's alive and well and to keep water stirred and aerated in the tanks. No pump in the tank - overflow into the sump.

Atm, I am thinking four 5300 GPH AquaForce asynchronous drive mag pumps, 360 W each pump - two per tank. As stated, these are also contemplated to be the only source of stirring and aeration in the tanks. So the sump will see ~21,000 GPH combined flow across a 20'x5' = 100 sq ft cross-section.

So the sump is being made as a ~20'x20'x6' rubber-liner pond filled to ~5' = 2000 cubic feet = 55.6 cubic meters = 55,650 liters = 14,700 US gallons. ~2' in ground, ~4' above ground on average (the grade slopes down away from the fish house).

Each overflow is currently thought to be equipped with a very large DIY aquasock of this kind/concept - http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ost6084230 - but bigger, perhaps ~35-50 gal.

Two-three days I've been agonizing over choosing the sump media. For now, I decided to stay away from sand pressure filters and moving media filters (expense, noise, efficiency, etc. reasons plus I really need a water reserve and, hence, might as well use it as a sump). I've considered and priced everything (for a stationary media) from this nice link - http://www.russellwatergardens.com/Styl ... diassa.php - and more:

- Live plants
- Hydro FilterSilk
- Poly-Flo
- Savio Springflo
- Bio Bale
- Aqua Ultra
- Lava Rock
- Matala
- Bio-Balls
- Rock and Gravel
- Sand
- Nylon mesh pot scrubbers
- Nylon mesh shower balls
- Nylon cloth
- PVC pellets or shavings
- Nylon leaf netting
- Insect screening
- Shade cloth

Still much torn, I've picked the knitted 50% shade cloth. Farmtek was having a special on 10'x300' rolls at $1.32 per liner foot, so I bought 5 rolls, $1900, $325 to truck it here from Iowa. IDK if I will need all to fill ~2000 cubic feet (looser and denser packing both have their pros and cons) but none should go to waste anyway. Everything else came out to be from-little-to-far-more expensive and all these media types have their pros and cons.

I know. Kind of an unusual stuffing for a bio-filter. I guess, in some way I am gambling. If you feel like I've made a mistake and/or feel like suggesting a good or a better way, speak up. Though too late for this iteration, knowledge is always power.

The shade cloth is knitted nylon. Should be fish safe. May have some trace grease on it from the manufacturing and machining. I think a good rinse with a mild detergent may clean it adequately.

[unblinded]

Nice update on the progress Viktor. I haven't had experience on the scale you are building but I've used lava rock in my filtration and several hundred pounds in my 350 gallon tank. There were several things I liked about it. I like that it is porous and has all kinds of surfaces for bacteria to grow on. Lava rock is also inert so it won't affect pH. As far as the material you are using, I have no experience with it but it sounds like it might work.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks much.

Nylon shade cloth (on the surface) should not be too different from nylon mesh/silk, pot scrubbers, shower balls, etc. that are routinely and widely used by DIY-ers.

Lava rock is not cheap in our neck of the woods and that's big rock 1"-2"; the 0.5" is not available. I got a quote at $200 per cubic yard or per 27 cu ft and $340 per ton. Would need ~1800 cu ft = $1300 at 80 SSA (specific surface area in sq ft per cu ft; IDK for which size, 0.5" that's used in potting, say, orchids or the usual 1"-2"; likely the usual)... not counting in a bunch of chum bags, uneven flow / channeling through the cross-section (because of the bags), 20% open volume = easy clogging and poorer aeration, the weight and the brutal hardness of cleaning 4 tons of lava rock... Whilst the nylon mesh gives me around 350 SSA and ~80%-90% open space and rather easy cleaning with a hose.

I like lava rock. I used it many times but 50-100 lbs. It just didn't feel the best choice here. I also think the nooks and crannies in lava rock and even more so lava's pores get quickly stuffed with detritus, dead bacteria, etc. Time will show.

I never really understood this aspect about the much touted ceramic media. Yes, it has the highest SSA because of a myriad of tiny pores but the smaller the pore, the easier it is lost to clogging, gunking up, and the harder it is to deliver aerated, fresh water to its entire surface because of the capillary forces and the overall resistance and friction. Anyhow, if someone understands it or knows of a good description addressing this, please, let me know. Until then, I will be concerned that porous materials may not be all that they are presented or thought to be... at least after a short period of having been in use...

[Viktor Jarikov]

The 50% shade cloth from FarmTek, 10'x300' five rolls, and the cinder blocks for the 15,000 gal filter are here.

[naturalart]

Hi Viktor, I've been following this enormous thread somewhat loosely so forgive me if I misunderstand something. But firstly, congrats on this build. I know it takes a lot of focus and determination to accomplish something like this. So much respect.

Concerning your decision about which media for this sump: My main concern would be the ease of cleaning. Most of the media you mentioned will provide plenty of surface area; but of course they will all clog at some point regardless of form. So effort and time to clean/declog becomes the issue for me. If it just takes moderate 'thumping' while in discharge mode, as opposed to lots of lifting and checking, etc. Or maybe cleaning outside the sump; of course the easier, quicker method wins, hands down. My 2¢

Can't wait for you to open. My next trip to florida: you will be on my schedule! much luck!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Much appreciated!

It's been 2 months. I've finished the 15,000 gal sump... well, sort of finished. It is functional and is covered and insect proof but it has no looks and no time or funds to pretty it up.

About 5' deep but can fill another 6"-12" to up the volume to 16,500 or 18,000 gal. The shade cloth for media is in. It floats, so it is weighed down by PVC pipes filled with water and sand and capped off.

Two opposite corners are sectioned off. One for the incoming water, which will be overflowing from the two ~4500 gal tanks into a giant , ~500+ gal "aquasock".

The other for the pumps. I am in the process of selecting pumps, on which I am working with PondUSA http://www.pondusa.com/catalog.htm at the moment. I think I need about 13,000 GPH in each 4500 gal, about 3 turnovers an hour.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Inside the sump house.

BTW, for the first time I decided to try a PE liner. So far I loved it. Much (~3+ times) lighter and stronger at 25 mil than my usual 45 mil EDPM Firestone rubber liner and ~2 times cheaper. A bit less pliable / flexible but it does not matter to my application. I got the RPE liner (reinforced PE liner) from Everything-Ponds http://store.everything-ponds.com/premi ... ond-liner/

[Viktor Jarikov]

At the same time have been working on stands tying the legs to the concrete slab, adding more horizontal braces under the tanks, a leg for each brace in the middle, braces against length-wise rocking / collapse and those against width-wise rocking / collapse, and the outer walls.

The stands will also house a sump lined with RPE, I think. The entire space under the fish tanks will be a sump - one sump for the 6x240 gal tank cluster (same sump for all 6 tanks) and two sumps for the 4x240 gal tank cluster, two tanks a sump (which are prospected to be quarantine and hospital tanks).

[Viktor Jarikov]

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[NCE12940]

Still a fascinating journey. I might just have to make a trip to Florida one of these days.

[Jools]

Still a fascinating journey. I might just have to make a trip to Florida one of these days.

That is what I think every time I check in to this thread.

Jools

[Bioaquatix]

What a massive build. Looks like it is moving along. A few opinions and thoughts;

Shade cloth, in my experience raising fish outside in greenhouses i find the Florida summer heat is brutal. I have a mix of 30% & 50% shade and feel that is not enough. Some of my vats in the greenhouse kept near 85F most of the summer. When i get the money and energy I would like to swap out for 80% or higher.

Sump, the sump is a great idea. It is always nice to have extra water volume and easy access to your system. You can place other equipment in there to hide from the main tank or tanks. For biological filtration I have found that a fluidized bed filter to be superb. You get great surface area for bacteria. The key is to get a coarse grade of sand so it does not become a rock when shut off. Something the size of aragonite but not aragonite since anything calcium will dissolve away. I have tried some gravel at the bottom as well to prevent a clog. You dont need as much sand as most people will tell you. Depending on the diameter of the tower you only need a few inches of sand. Once it is floating a couple of feet you get a massive bio filter.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks guys for your interest, good wishes, and suggestions.

Small update. I bought the pumps - twenty Aquasurge 5000's, so will try to use just one pump type for all my needs. Submersible (quiet), asynchronous drive, 360 W, 5300 GPH at 0' of head, ~5000 GPH at ~5', which is ~ where I am.

Also, got a 500 gal PE water tank from Craiglist to use as a mechanical pre-filter or an analog of an aquasock. Drilled 1.5" holes.

Will line with two layers of the Poly-Flo green 1" medium density mechanical filtration pad (got a 56" x 120' roll). Not sure if this will pass through 30,000 GPH (15,000 GPH, three pumps per each 4500 gal tank) but will have to play with it. Can raise the pre-filter higher with blocks (the sump is 5' deep) and/or take out one pad layer. The idea is to rinse the pad 1-2 times a week right inside the pre-filter and vacuum the muck out. If does not work, take the pad out, rinse, and reinstall.

Four more pre-filters for other exhibits are planned to be made, probably the same way. There will be lots of PE shavings from the drilling. I am thinking of using the shavings as media for bio-filtration.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Oct 27, 2014. Have been plumbing the 4500's and filling them gradually over a week letting the tanks and the stands adjust slowly. Never mind the tannin-stained water - I am using straight well water for testing and plumbing purposes. When all holds, will switch to mainly RO + some well water.

[JamesFish]

Wow - I wish I could do a project like this. Good luck and look forward to watching this develope. For everyone who would love to do this and can't for various reasons please keep us updated.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nov 10, 2014. Thank you all guys for support.

A major milestone. The 4500's are full and running. Pumped down two outside ponds and transferred the tropicals and Co inside as the nights and the water temp outside are getting too cold.

The tank water is still colored yellow (plus blue paint produces green appearance). Tannin. Still at about 30% raw well water and 70% RO. Hopefully, in a few weeks it will be about colorless and the turbidity will subside too. Both also dim the lighting.

Need much better lighting for good photos. Just some quick and dirty for now. With a flash (one included) the pics are far better but have no depth, of course, as all gets blacked out in the background.

I have to get an upper hand on the parasites. Even an ~15 min ~10-20 ppm KMnO4 potassium permanganate soak has not killed all external bugs, it appears, as the fish are rubbing somewhat. The internal are being addressed through water (metro + prazi currently) and hopefully through food in a week or so. Need a good Epsom salt cleanse too. Have not had the time to quarantine. November has been unusually cool this year.

[Viktor Jarikov]

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[Viktor Jarikov]

The other 4500:

[Viktor Jarikov]

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[Viktor Jarikov]

With a flash:

[bekateen]

Amazing!

[NCE12940]

No question that I'm going to have to make a trip to Florida!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nov 13, 2014. Thanks guys! You might have to wait a bit though...

Well, you aim for best but get the usual. The first iteration was short-lived and blew up in my face. Nov 12 around 4 am, the 15,000 gal sump / water reserve caved in. I walked into the fish room flooded to the ankle, silt in the tanks, one tank overflowing, the other half full, ~700 cinder blocks fallen inside the sump, and a mud and ground slide too.

Based on evidence, my view of what happened is that my home-made plug-resistant drain grate was not nearly resistant enough. 15,000 GPH in a 4" drain create quite a suction. A fish was unable to free itself from it. A smaller fish. I had previously observed larger fish to overcome this without a significant effort. (Of course, if a fish died, any fish, the sad result would have been the same.)

The water has been overflowing for some hours and some of it found its way around the sump, weakening the ground. The six 5000 GPH pumps eventually pumped out ~80% of water and then, when the water pressure from the inside of the sump got too small, the collapse of the sump walls, the mud slide, and the falling of the blocks inside occurred.

The blocks have been just stacked up in 5 layers (6th layer in ground), no posts or rebar, etc. just some filled with dirt - I had built it to never give in to the water pressure and to always have a minimum water level inside the sump to keep it from caving in. Bad thinking. Haste and cutting corners makes waste... sometimes.

Would not be the first time. If God is willing, we shall keep tinkering. Just a learning experience which set us back by a few weeks and some $$.

Rehomed the fish. Pulled out the blocks, the shade cloth (1500'x10' for biomedia), the shade cloth weights, etc. Need to get the liner out and the underlayment, shovel out the mud and begin again. Now with posts and braces.

Also, I experimented with using economical, thin-wall, PE, flexible, corrugated drainage pipes for both incoming (4" each pipe - one for each 5000 GPH pump) and draining water (6" pipe for each tank). My water pressures are all less than 3 psi. 6' of water is 3 psi for reference.

While it works well for the incoming part, it's not worth it for the draining part. Lots of pluses but the minuses are just terrible. Besides, I've learned there is a good chance I can make it work with a 4" drain, not 6". For reference, my 5000 GPH pump fills only ~30%-40% of the 4” corrugated pipe cross section. So I'll switch out to 4" PVC. 4" PVC is far cheaper than 6" too.

(Oh yeah, sadly, lost some fish too.)

[Viktor Jarikov]

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[Viktor Jarikov]

Incoming pipes - six 4" corrugated pipes. The pipes come up sharply and then slope down very gently and have a hole in each at the highest point to prevent both filling up (too much weight) and siphoning water out when turned off.

[Viktor Jarikov]

6" drain pipes:

[2wheelsx2]

Sorry to hear of the minor setback (as that's all it is in a project as big as yours). Perhaps a "cage" around the drain will prevent this from happening in the future? Preventing contact with the immediate space around the drain should alleviate the suction problem.

[Bioaquatix]

Sorry to hear about your set back. It is tough to consider all the possibilities until some of them happen.

That is a huge amount of weight to try to hold together. What other options are you looking at for a sump?