Tetra LifeGaurd and "scaleless" fish, i.e. Synodontis nigriventris

[jodilynn]

Hi all,

My one tank has, over the period of several months, been randomly losing fish. No signs of disease, fine one day, lethargic the next, deceased the following day.

Had the water tested, all parameters are good, talked extensively with the LFS owner (very knowledgeable guy, never steered me wrong) and he's stumped.

He recommended to run a course of medication in case there is anything in the tank we cannot find.

I have Tetra LifeGuard tablets:

Lifeguard

With Tetra's Lifeguard, there is no need for time-consuming guesswork when it comes to treating your freshwater fish. A unique, broad spectrum, non-antibiotic agent, Lifeguard treats the clinical signs of disease at their earliest stages in freshwater fish. Added to aquarium water, the powerful oxidizing action of HaloShield attacks and destroys microorganisms that can cause disease in fish. Use for treating fungus, ick, red streaks, milky or shedding slime, flukes, bacterial gill disease, mouth and fin rot, clamped or torn fins, and ulcers. Lifeguard may also be used as a preventive when adding new fish. Five day treatment.

However, it says "not for use on scales fishes".

My understanding has always been "scaleless" meaning morymids and the like. But has anyone here used this on synos?

I have 2 little S. Nigriventris in the tank, "Fred" and "Barney" are about all that's left other than my Corydoras aeneus, two nasty gold barbs that I need to move to another tank, a tiny whiptail that I think may be

Rineloricaria pareiacantha

and a stray zebra danio.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Richard B]

No catfishes have scales - they are either naked like synos or with bony plates like plecs. Synos when in good health are generally tough as old boots & can handle meds quite well.

My concern is that you are treating the tank with no visible signs of disease - it could be something else: what fishes have you lost?
For example - are they poor quality stock? Is there enough oxygenation? Is there temperature fluctuation? Is there any external influence that has poisoned the tank (furniture polish, perfume etc?)

Tetra Lifeguard sounds like it treats everything from the description above, but there are so many infections & some are more common than others, some needing specific treatments. Healthy fish generally don't succumb to disease, it's only when they're stressed & weakened that diseases take hold.

As a start I'd up the frequency of water changes, increase oxygenation & monitor the tank. Then eliminate all possibilities one at a time

[jodilynn]

All those bases were covered, no ammonia, nitrites, nitrates were a bit elevated (I did miss a couple of water changes, but these losses occur even when I am on schedule) well water so no chlorine, my water is weird hard 330 ppm AK high and ph 8.4, I normally do regular water changes (we adopted a dog so the tanks got put on the back burner for a few weeks, but again these fish losses happen with the regular changes), temp steady @ between 75-77, undergravel filter with carbon/ammo lock inserts on the lift tubes, Marina HOB filter with three cartridges that are rotated left to right and I also have biocubes in the filter and a sponge prefilter on it, air coming out of the lift tubes on the UG and I have a large bubble wand in the back behind the driftwood. Fish are only fed once a day or every other day, just a few quick pinches. Catfish food put in at night.

The tank is "new", the old one leaked so in the spring so I had to get a new tank, but all the old gravel/plants/filter material went back in with about 90% of the water.

These losses occurred before and continue to the present.

We do not use furniture polish or any chemicals/sprays in the house because of the tanks and our other pets.

Stock is from the LFS with the exception of the Rubbermouth pleco, he was from Petsmart. Not new fish but I did not have them long enough to say they died of old age either. Zebra danios, female betta, dwarf gourami, 3 corys, and the Rubbermouth.

I will keep up on the water changes, but if this is not stopping the deaths then the rationale was SOMETHING is lurking in the tank taking fish out and something needs to be done.

[racoll]

Which fish died exactly? You have a mix of fish that require very different water conditions.

[jodilynn]

I have been keeping a large variety of fish in this tank and in 8 other tanks, this is the only tank with issues. And that tank actually has been running the longest. The fish that died are 5 zebra Danios, a male Dwarf Gourami, a female Betta, 3 Corydoras, and a Rubbermouth (Bulldog, Blonde, etc) pleco.

I have similar mixes of similar species in the 8 (actually nine) tanks that I own. The fish just die in that tank. Thought the betta was killing them, then the betta died. That leaves me with wondering if the barbs did it but I don't see how they would have killed the pleco.

[jodilynn]

Sorry, I had posted this in "African Catfishes" because I was really specifically asking whether or not LifeGuard could be used in a tank with my two little synos.

[N0body Of The Goat]

Never used this particular medication, but I've yet to knowingly have issues with any meds I've used on my various Mochokidae catfish (including S. nigriventris) over the last 5 years or so.

As a group, they do seem to be tough as old boots. I did have 13 S. nigriventris at one point, I lost one at the end of an (Ich?) epidemic that wreaked death more than any disease outbreak I've experienced so far (killed all 6 Syndontis decorus I had grown from ~3cm SL babies to ~12cm SL juveniles, my original Steatocranus casuarius "dad"), while one poor blighter unknowingly swam inside the normally shut lid of my Fluval U4 filter (which was then raised and the poor catfish was standed above the water line).

[Birger]

Going by the information you have given I would try to tailor future purchases to your water parameters...or start to work with RO water which can be a hassle day to day.

ph 8.4 is fairly extreme...the synos are "tuff" enough but others would succumb, that means the rubbermouths, gouramis, bettas and some cory's could have a hard time to handle it long term.

Rift lake fish would love your water, many beautiful catfish and other fish in those lakes, even (yes I will say it) some very interesting little cichlids. Some rainbowfish as well possibly.

Birger

[jodilynn]

There has been much head scratching here on PC about my water. All I can say is I have been keeping fish here at this home for about 9 years now, and I have many fish (plecos, bettas, corys, loaches, even tetras) that have been living in this water for several years. Obviously my synos are quite happy!

I did order some peat moss to add to my filters, and in the fall I collect oak leaves to put in the tanks as well. I am contemplating ordering come Catappa leaves to get me through till November when the oak leaves turn brown.

However, I am stressed that every time I change my water (and I have a tendency to do big changes, 50%), if the stuff coming out of my tap is 8.4 and I have successfully "naturally" lowered the ph in the tanks using peat moss, oak/catappa leaves and driftwood, THAT be even more harmful to my fish than if the water was just consistently hard!

This is why I don't test the water in my tanks . Everything seems to be fine (except for the tank I originally referenced) and now I am freaking out and overthinking everything...

[N0body Of The Goat]

I also do 50% weekly water changes on 4 of my 5 tanks (my 6-footer gets 2x ~33%), but these days, I refill them differently. I now gradually refill them over 2/3 days, normally doing no more than ~40l in one batch, to try and make any water chemistry change more gradual.

I used to refill most of my tanks that afternoon/evening, with the exception of the tank containing my male Halfbeak, which used to cause predictable chaos in my 6-footer (Troy, my Syndontis cg. budgetti would chase my Synodontis notatus for a while). Troy is a changed catfish these days, it is now the 12+cm SL Synodontis angelicus bought in April that is slowly becoming the rogue of the tank. ;)

[racoll]

However, I am stressed that every time I change my water (and I have a tendency to do big changes, 50%), if the stuff coming out of my tap is 8.4 and I have successfully "naturally" lowered the ph in the tanks using peat moss, oak/catappa leaves and driftwood, THAT be even more harmful to my fish than if the water was just consistently hard!

Unfortunately when you are adding these things like peat moss, leaves, and driftwood to your tank, you are (1) not going to the change the hardness or pH of the water one bit, but you are (2) going to remove available oxygen from the water, because oxygen used when this organic debris decomposes.

You have a mix of fish that require very different water conditions.

Here I was not talking about pH and hardness. I was talking about the mix of species that prefer cool running water (rubbernose plecos, danios) as opposed to warm stagnant water (gouramis, bettas).

[jodilynn]

I have very heavy filtration and also utilize airstones/spraybars/bubblewands etc. to oxygenate the water.

As far as my bettas and gouramis, there are more "settled" (I don't want to use the word "stagnant") areas in the tanks where the water is more peaceful.