Are these worms harmfull

Post pictures of your beloved catfish aquaria here. Also good for pictures of your (cat)fish rooms or equipment discussions. If you are posting pictures of identified catfish, please do so in the appropriate husbandry and reproduction forum above.
Post Reply
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

Hi everyone,

A few months ago I discovered strange looking worms in my aquarium. This is what they look like:
Image

They look (and move) like 'regular' planaria, but don't have the characteristic arrow shaped head. After a lot of searching on the internet I came to the conclusion that I'm dealing with Bothromesostoma personatum, but there is very little information about this species. They only thing I could find, is that it's not possible to treat them with flubenol (I did a little test with Praziquantel; that seems to work, but only in a high dose).

Does any of you have any experience with these worms? The main question I have is if they can do any harm to for example eggs or just hatched fish. I don't have a lot of these worms (on average I see one every few days with a maximum of 5 a day), but if they are a threat, I don't want them in my tanks.

Thanks for your help!!

Cheers Marlonneke
Last edited by MarlonnekeW on 07 Aug 2016, 18:24, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Posts: 1471
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 23:26
I've donated: $4288.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:48)
Location 1: USA
Location 2: Mt. Kisco, NY
Interests: Fish and Poker

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by TwoTankAmin »

I may be way off base here, but the first thing that came to mind seeing your pictures was leech. However, I would hope somebody who knows what they are talking about chimes in. In the meantime you may want to looks at some Google images of leeches.
No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

I thought of leeches too, but from what I've read they move differently. If this info is correct leeches have a looping movement (pull their tail next to their head and than move their head forward). These worms slide across the glass and bottom like a snake.
User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 8957
Joined: 09 Sep 2014, 17:50
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 4
My images: 130
My cats species list: 142 (i:102, k:39)
My aquaria list: 36 (i:13)
My BLogs: 44 (i:149, p:2653)
My Wishlist: 35
Spotted: 177
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by bekateen »

Leeches don't glide like planarians. If bothered, leeches will curl ventrally into a C-shape or circle. Also, leeches have suckers and their rear end will stick to surfaces while the front end waves around.

Cheers, Eric
Image
Find me on YouTube and Facebook: http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1; https://www.facebook.com/Bekateen
Buying caves from https://plecocaves.com? Plecocaves sponsor Bekateen's Fishroom. Use coupon code "bekateen" (no quotes) for 15% off your order.
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

These worms are definitely gliding, so I don't think they are leeches.
User avatar
naturalart
Posts: 728
Joined: 07 Jan 2006, 05:38
I've donated: $45.00!
My images: 3
My cats species list: 37 (i:18, k:10)
My aquaria list: 6 (i:3)
My Wishlist: 3
Spotted: 14
Location 1: Oakland
Location 2: California
Interests: catfish, nature

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by naturalart »

I'd extinguish them anyway; until you can know exactly what you are dealing with. If the head is the pointy end of your organism that could denote serious piercing and/or burrowing behavior and mouthparts. I'd take samples to a University invert expert. my 2¢
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

The problem is that I'm not sure if I'm able to extinguish them. So far I've done two treatments with the normal dose Praziquantel, but that didn't work. Because the worms did die when I tested it, I guess that the normal dose isn't high enough. One of the effected tanks had only two fish in it, so I moved them to another aquarium and treated that one with 2,5 x the recommended dose Praziguantel. But I'm not sure if that's enough. From the info I've read ( http://crustahunter.com/scheibenwurm/ , which is in German) these worms are not responding to the regular planaria medication like No Planaria, Flubenol and Panacur. So if the Praziquantel is not doing the job, I'm not sure what will.
User avatar
naturalart
Posts: 728
Joined: 07 Jan 2006, 05:38
I've donated: $45.00!
My images: 3
My cats species list: 37 (i:18, k:10)
My aquaria list: 6 (i:3)
My Wishlist: 3
Spotted: 14
Location 1: Oakland
Location 2: California
Interests: catfish, nature

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by naturalart »

If you're only seeing a few 2-5 at a time maybe their reproduction is not that high. Kill everyone you see with a finger squish, or removal and flush down the toilet. At least you are killing potential breeders. Chemicals aren't always the only answer.
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

I do remove the ones I see.
That was sort of my question; is that enough or should I make sure that they are all gone? Another option might be adding for example a small tetra that will extinguish them for me (the other fish in this aquarium will be a group of Ancistrus claro and they don't eat the worms).
User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 8957
Joined: 09 Sep 2014, 17:50
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 4
My images: 130
My cats species list: 142 (i:102, k:39)
My aquaria list: 36 (i:13)
My BLogs: 44 (i:149, p:2653)
My Wishlist: 35
Spotted: 177
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by bekateen »

Maybe throw out your gravel? They could be hiding in it. Also, I know some loaches eat snails. Would they also eat these?
Image
Find me on YouTube and Facebook: http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1; https://www.facebook.com/Bekateen
Buying caves from https://plecocaves.com? Plecocaves sponsor Bekateen's Fishroom. Use coupon code "bekateen" (no quotes) for 15% off your order.
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

That might help, but the last ones I saw were on a piece of wood and there's a Hamburger Mattenfilter in the aquarium, which will probably provide them with lots of hiding spots (and food). So I guess that if I'm going to do a big clean up to completely remove them, I'll have to throw away everything (gravel, plants, wood, caves and filter material) and start over. That's something I'm really tying to avoid.
Bas Pels
Posts: 2898
Joined: 21 Dec 2006, 20:35
My images: 1
My cats species list: 28 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 7
Location 1: the Netherlands
Location 2: Nijmegen the Netherlands
Interests: Central American and Uruguayan fishes

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by Bas Pels »

I would NOT throw all of that away.

Keeping stuff dry for a day or two (I mean dry, not humid) will kill all large lifeforms

Planst you could rinse in a bleach solution 1 teaspoon in a liter will suffice. This solution will also work for the gravel and other stuff, in case you rather not wait these days (it does smell). But then rinse a few times with clean water

Still, whether you dry/rinse everything or replace it for new, in both cases you will have to cycle the tank again.

We don't have much of a summer this year in NL, but predictions are next week will be much better. You might want to wait for a week, take the fishes out of the tank, into a container in your house, and start cycling the tank

In such a case I would do a daily 50 % waterchange
cats have whiskers
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

Don't worry, I wasn't planning on throwing anything away ;). I just meant that if I should remove the gravel, I probably have to remove everything else as well.

Maybe I should explain the situation a bit more. I have several aquariums; one is a community tank were I've seen maybe 2 or 3 worms in the last couple of months. It's not a breeding tank, but I still had some baby fish (Hyphessobrycon roseus) and baby shrimps, so I'm not worried about that one. I also have 4 breeding tanks of which one is wormfree (I've never seen one in this aquarium and I have a baby shrimp explosion at the moment, so it's not likely that there are any worms in there). Another had worms in the past, but I restarted it after it was empty and dry for a few weeks and I haven't seen any worms since. The problem is with my two other aquariums. One is my current Ancitrus claro tank, where I found most of the worms. The other one is the future claro tank. In this one I found 3-5 worms in total. So the worms are not a problem yet, but I don't want them to be in the future, because once the claro's are in the tank, it will be harder to address the problem.

Two days ago I treated the empty tank with an overdose Praziquantel. The difficulty is that I'm not sure if the dose was high enough; the normal dose didn't do the job, but when I tested this medication (a few drops in a small amount of water) the worms did die. So I guess the solution lies with figuring out the right dose. Because there are only a very small number of worms in this aquarium and they are very good at hiding, it's really hard to find out if this dose was enough or not.
Because the current claro tank has the most worms, I want my little guys out of there as soon as possible, but I have to wait until I'm finished with treating their new tank. So basically my dilemma is this; should I do everything I can to be 100% sure that the worms are all gone (with the worst-case-scenario cleaning everything and recycling the tank all over again) which will probably take at least a couple of weeks, or should I accept the small risk that there are still some worms in the aquarium and move my claro's as soon as possible.
dw1305
Posts: 1077
Joined: 22 Oct 2009, 11:57
Location 1: Corsham, UK
Location 2: Bath, UK
Interests: Natural History, Ecology, Plants, Biotopes, Taxonomy, Nitrification, Cricket & Northern Soul

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by dw1305 »

Hi all,
MarlonnekeW wrote:That might help, but the last ones I saw were on a piece of wood and there's a Hamburger Mattenfilter in the aquarium, which will probably provide them with lots of hiding spots (and food). So I guess that if I'm going to do a big clean up to completely remove them, I'll have to throw away everything (gravel, plants, wood, caves and filter material) and start over. That's something I'm really tying to avoid.
You could try trapping them. Whatever I've done I've always ended up with some Planaria (and often leeches) in tanks, and I now I just try and control their number.

DIY trap details are here: <"DIY Planaria...http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-di ... traps.html">.

You could put the trap behind the mattenfilter, and you might be able to put some pieces of broken tile or slate on the substrate as well? As long as there is a small access in the Planaria will congregate beneath the tile, and you can just wash them off under the hot tap.

cheers Darrel
MarlonnekeW
Posts: 199
Joined: 29 May 2015, 13:57
My cats species list: 20 (i:20, k:2)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:1)
My BLogs: 5 (i:9, p:187)
Spotted: 15
Location 1: The Netherlands
Location 2: Rotterdam area

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by MarlonnekeW »

That sounds like a very good idea, thanks!!!
This way I can remove them, without harming my fish and it also probably gives me an indication how many worms there are and if the overdose Praziquantel worked or not.
dw1305
Posts: 1077
Joined: 22 Oct 2009, 11:57
Location 1: Corsham, UK
Location 2: Bath, UK
Interests: Natural History, Ecology, Plants, Biotopes, Taxonomy, Nitrification, Cricket & Northern Soul

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by dw1305 »

Hi all,
MarlonnekeW wrote:.... and it also probably gives me an indication how many worms there are and if the overdose Praziquantel worked or not.
I mainly use the flat slates to monitor the Planaria and Leech numbers, I don't think it is likely you will remove enough to give you complete control.

I haven't had any Bothromesostoma in the tank (yet), and the flatworms I have had have been removed by Fenbendazole (bought as cat-worming powder -"Panacur"), but I always get them back.

Praziquantel doesn't effect Leeches (they are Annelid worms), and I rely on the slates and baiting to control these. I'm not aware of any chemicals that control leeches that aren't wide spectrum.

I've never had parasitic leeches, they have always been the type that are carnivorous on worms etc.

cheers Darrel
Last edited by dw1305 on 08 Jun 2017, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 8957
Joined: 09 Sep 2014, 17:50
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 4
My images: 130
My cats species list: 142 (i:102, k:39)
My aquaria list: 36 (i:13)
My BLogs: 44 (i:149, p:2653)
My Wishlist: 35
Spotted: 177
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by bekateen »

Bas Pels wrote:I would NOT throw all of that away.

Keeping stuff dry for a day or two (I mean dry, not humid) will kill all large lifeforms
Agreed. I spoke (typed) carelessly. Thanks for the correction. :-)

Cheers, Eric
Image
Find me on YouTube and Facebook: http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1; https://www.facebook.com/Bekateen
Buying caves from https://plecocaves.com? Plecocaves sponsor Bekateen's Fishroom. Use coupon code "bekateen" (no quotes) for 15% off your order.
characinkid
Posts: 181
Joined: 02 Sep 2003, 22:02
I've donated: $27.00!
My cats species list: 10 (i:3, k:9)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:0)
My BLogs: 3 (i:3, p:148)
My Wishlist: 5
Spotted: 10
Location 1: New England USA
Location 2: NH USA

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by characinkid »

Interesting thread. Any chance that you could add a fish to eat them? Maybe a clown loach, cichlid etc?
Too Many Tanks... Too Many fish... not enough time!!!
User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Posts: 1471
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 23:26
I've donated: $4288.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:48)
Location 1: USA
Location 2: Mt. Kisco, NY
Interests: Fish and Poker

Re: Are these worms harmfull

Post by TwoTankAmin »

Have you tried either Flubendazole or Levamisol HCl? Either might work, I am not certain of this however. You can find them here http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.htm

They are easy to research on the net.
No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Post Reply

Return to “Tank Talk”