My albino ancistrus tank has turned from first spawn to disaster. The fish are not just gasping for air but covered with tiny spots - on the albino ancistrus it looks more yellowish then white but it is more then I have noticed on any fish ever having ick - in combination with thes the tailfin and some others are falling apart(?)
I assumed it was ick at first and treated with formalin, malachite green and salt - raised temp to 85 and did 40% waterchange. However the condition is just getting worse - is my diagnose of ick correct?
Is there anything else I could do?
Thanks
All tankparameters are listed in the "OUTBREAK!!" thread.
Treating oodium/velvet
Treating oodium/velvet
Last edited by INXS on 04 Mar 2004, 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Barbie
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This sounds like velvet (Oodinium), not ich, and it would definitely explain your losses. Keep going with the treatment you started, daily, and you should notice a marked improvement in a few days. Increasing aeration can also help, as the fish are literally being suffocated by all the parasites in their gills, at this point. I'm sorry. 
Barbie
Barbie
Thanks again Barbie,
I'm glad I can always count on you.
I did a few searches on oodium (velvet) this morning and it seems that it is what it is.
I have done additional waterchanges and medicated with malachite green and coppersafe velvet remedy. In addition I have raised the temp , added salt and cut the light .
The worst part with this kind of stuff is that it makes you want to just give up on the hobby.
It just makes you frustrated and want to sell of the fish and quit
I'm just incredibly bummed out that I finally got a spawn from some plecos and then they go ahead and die.
Anyway - what is the procedure for the tank?
Do I have to disinfect and bleach the tank or should I let the disease die out and just leave the tank empty for 3 days before introducing new fish? I think I read that the parasite dies in a day or 2 if it doesn't find a host.
Thanks
I'm glad I can always count on you.
I did a few searches on oodium (velvet) this morning and it seems that it is what it is.
I have done additional waterchanges and medicated with malachite green and coppersafe velvet remedy. In addition I have raised the temp , added salt and cut the light .
The worst part with this kind of stuff is that it makes you want to just give up on the hobby.
It just makes you frustrated and want to sell of the fish and quit
I'm just incredibly bummed out that I finally got a spawn from some plecos and then they go ahead and die.
Anyway - what is the procedure for the tank?
Do I have to disinfect and bleach the tank or should I let the disease die out and just leave the tank empty for 3 days before introducing new fish? I think I read that the parasite dies in a day or 2 if it doesn't find a host.
Thanks
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pleco_breeder
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INXS,
Velvet won't die out due to a lack of hosts. All too often ambient room lighting is enough to sustain enough of the parasites to infect the tank again once it is re-stocked. You're better off to treat the fish until the disease is no longer present. If all the fish die, continue the dosage for a week or so with a thick towel over the tank to prevent as much light from getting into the tank as possible and only then put a couple of test fish in the tank.
The coppersafe will destroy your bacterial filtration, so you'll have to restart with low stocking densities and frequent water changes to allow the tank to re-seed.
Larry Vires
Velvet won't die out due to a lack of hosts. All too often ambient room lighting is enough to sustain enough of the parasites to infect the tank again once it is re-stocked. You're better off to treat the fish until the disease is no longer present. If all the fish die, continue the dosage for a week or so with a thick towel over the tank to prevent as much light from getting into the tank as possible and only then put a couple of test fish in the tank.
The coppersafe will destroy your bacterial filtration, so you'll have to restart with low stocking densities and frequent water changes to allow the tank to re-seed.
Larry Vires
Impossible only means that somebody hasn't done it correctly yet.
Pleco breeder,
thanks for the response. I think I have narrowed it down to velvet.
What is the best way to treat velvet?
I have scanned several sites and haven't found any definite answer for fighting it. This is the first time I have encountered it and surprisingly it has flared up in the tank that seems to have the lowest stocking density and has had the most waterchanges - go figure.
Anyway - the meds I have available and am considering are:
- raised temperatures (83 deg) to hurry the cycle of the disease
- darkness - to counter the clorophyll in the cells of the disease
- added airation for help of breathing of the fish
- salt to strengthen gills and skin
- daily waterchanges of 20-30% to flush the system and help counter any bacterial filtration dieoff
-coppersafe velvet cure is supposed to be pretty safe
-malachite green to fight the oodium itself, I have heard that it works on it
-formalin for fighting any skin/surface parasites
- melafix to heal the shredded fins and skin
Are these good steps to take?
Should I combine them?
How long will it take? (I just haven't found any info on the net)
As I have lost a number of fish in another tank that the ancistrus originated in and those fish exhibited really rapid breathing as did the ancistrus - should I assume they have the same ailment eventhough there isn't any evidence of spots on the skin?
What is the general result and how long does it take?
Thanks
thanks for the response. I think I have narrowed it down to velvet.
What is the best way to treat velvet?
I have scanned several sites and haven't found any definite answer for fighting it. This is the first time I have encountered it and surprisingly it has flared up in the tank that seems to have the lowest stocking density and has had the most waterchanges - go figure.
Anyway - the meds I have available and am considering are:
- raised temperatures (83 deg) to hurry the cycle of the disease
- darkness - to counter the clorophyll in the cells of the disease
- added airation for help of breathing of the fish
- salt to strengthen gills and skin
- daily waterchanges of 20-30% to flush the system and help counter any bacterial filtration dieoff
-coppersafe velvet cure is supposed to be pretty safe
-malachite green to fight the oodium itself, I have heard that it works on it
-formalin for fighting any skin/surface parasites
- melafix to heal the shredded fins and skin
Are these good steps to take?
Should I combine them?
How long will it take? (I just haven't found any info on the net)
As I have lost a number of fish in another tank that the ancistrus originated in and those fish exhibited really rapid breathing as did the ancistrus - should I assume they have the same ailment eventhough there isn't any evidence of spots on the skin?
What is the general result and how long does it take?
Thanks
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pleco_breeder
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INXS,
It's been a while since my last chemistry course, but, if I'm not mistaken, malachite is copper based. The combination with the copper safe could result in some serious problems of its own.
I would recommend the combination of malachite and formalin. I used to use this on new imports to clean them of flukes and other parasites and had a great deal of success with it. The salt will also help with the respiration issue and skin, but I would dose lightly since the fish are already stressed and too much change could trigger osmotic problems. For safety, I would also recommend treating both tanks. You didn't mention how long the ancistrus had been removed from the other tank, but Oodinium can have an extended life from a host and does not necessarily have to form the colonies that produce the spotting in order to be infectious.
An increase in temperature also has its own caveats. That will lower the oxygen available to already stressed fish and will probably do more damage than good.
In finishing, I would recommend the malachite, formalin, mild salt treatment, cover the tanks to prevent light, and increase aeration. The meds listed here should show results in 2-3 days, but treatment should be continued for 5 days. This allows time for single cells which may be present in the fishes mucus coating to become exposed and prevents possible re-infection.
Once the treatment is complete, then you can dose with the melafix or other anti-bacterial to prevent any possible infection. I wouldn't recommend this before then as to not stress the fish any further. I have noticed fish gasping at the surface with just prophylactic doses of melafix is my reason for this.
Larry Vires
It's been a while since my last chemistry course, but, if I'm not mistaken, malachite is copper based. The combination with the copper safe could result in some serious problems of its own.
I would recommend the combination of malachite and formalin. I used to use this on new imports to clean them of flukes and other parasites and had a great deal of success with it. The salt will also help with the respiration issue and skin, but I would dose lightly since the fish are already stressed and too much change could trigger osmotic problems. For safety, I would also recommend treating both tanks. You didn't mention how long the ancistrus had been removed from the other tank, but Oodinium can have an extended life from a host and does not necessarily have to form the colonies that produce the spotting in order to be infectious.
An increase in temperature also has its own caveats. That will lower the oxygen available to already stressed fish and will probably do more damage than good.
In finishing, I would recommend the malachite, formalin, mild salt treatment, cover the tanks to prevent light, and increase aeration. The meds listed here should show results in 2-3 days, but treatment should be continued for 5 days. This allows time for single cells which may be present in the fishes mucus coating to become exposed and prevents possible re-infection.
Once the treatment is complete, then you can dose with the melafix or other anti-bacterial to prevent any possible infection. I wouldn't recommend this before then as to not stress the fish any further. I have noticed fish gasping at the surface with just prophylactic doses of melafix is my reason for this.
Larry Vires
Impossible only means that somebody hasn't done it correctly yet.
Day 5;
Since I'm unable to find much firsthand info on the net I will write down what is happening here.
I am still treating with salt, 30% daily waterchanges, darkness and raised temps.
It seems that the initial 2 doses of formalin+Malachite green knocked the infestation down.
I have been told by someone that oodium is a much nastier bug then Ick and requires 30 days of treatment to ensure that there won't be a reinfestation.
I'm curious if the salt+darkness+raised temps+increased waterchanges will take care of it or if I need to dose formalin+Malachite green the whole time?
This morning - tank #1 has one L-264 which is looking just fine, all the geophagus Redhead Tapajos have died but the pleco is showing no sign of problem and has no visual infestation or damage.
Tank #2 the surviving two albino ancistrus have started breathing normally and left the immediate surface and are swimming around and hiding in normal fashion. Most of the spots from the oodium are gone but the fins remain torn. There doesn't seem to be any new damage to the fishes appearance so I'm assuming they are on the road to recovery.
Since I'm unable to find much firsthand info on the net I will write down what is happening here.
I am still treating with salt, 30% daily waterchanges, darkness and raised temps.
It seems that the initial 2 doses of formalin+Malachite green knocked the infestation down.
I have been told by someone that oodium is a much nastier bug then Ick and requires 30 days of treatment to ensure that there won't be a reinfestation.
I'm curious if the salt+darkness+raised temps+increased waterchanges will take care of it or if I need to dose formalin+Malachite green the whole time?
This morning - tank #1 has one L-264 which is looking just fine, all the geophagus Redhead Tapajos have died but the pleco is showing no sign of problem and has no visual infestation or damage.
Tank #2 the surviving two albino ancistrus have started breathing normally and left the immediate surface and are swimming around and hiding in normal fashion. Most of the spots from the oodium are gone but the fins remain torn. There doesn't seem to be any new damage to the fishes appearance so I'm assuming they are on the road to recovery.
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pleco_breeder
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INXS,
Oodinium is nasty in that it can survive quite a bit. I've never had any problems with immediate re-infestation with the formalin/malachite, but that is not to say that it's not possible. I will warn that both of these drugs can have possible short term side effects for the fish if dosage is sustained. The malachite will stop most breeding activity for 3-6 months after the treatment. If you would like to sustain the dose to prevent future outbreaks till it is completely gone, I would recommend weekly dosing, as opposed to daily, for the next 2-3 weeks.
Larry Vires
Oodinium is nasty in that it can survive quite a bit. I've never had any problems with immediate re-infestation with the formalin/malachite, but that is not to say that it's not possible. I will warn that both of these drugs can have possible short term side effects for the fish if dosage is sustained. The malachite will stop most breeding activity for 3-6 months after the treatment. If you would like to sustain the dose to prevent future outbreaks till it is completely gone, I would recommend weekly dosing, as opposed to daily, for the next 2-3 weeks.
Larry Vires
Impossible only means that somebody hasn't done it correctly yet.
Thanks pleco_breeder,
could you just clarify this - if you use malachite green in a tank , will the tank itself be unsuitable for breeding or just the fish? I'm thinking of using the particular tank for another species but want to ensure that the parasite is completly eridicated before introducing them. I was planning on treating the ancistrus in there since they are already present and moving them after 30 days - seeing that I lost the lone female. Once moved I figured 3 days with 75% waterchanges and a week of carbon filtering would take care of any residual meds.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
could you just clarify this - if you use malachite green in a tank , will the tank itself be unsuitable for breeding or just the fish? I'm thinking of using the particular tank for another species but want to ensure that the parasite is completly eridicated before introducing them. I was planning on treating the ancistrus in there since they are already present and moving them after 30 days - seeing that I lost the lone female. Once moved I figured 3 days with 75% waterchanges and a week of carbon filtering would take care of any residual meds.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
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pleco_breeder
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INXS,
It's more of an effect of stressing certain physiological parameter on the fish. The tank should be suitable so long as it is cleaned very well after the dosing. If it were me, I would be more inclined to break the tank down and give it a good wiping out before introducing the other set of breeders, but your technique may work just as well. I've never tried to clean the tanks by dillution after a strong medication.
Larry Vires
It's more of an effect of stressing certain physiological parameter on the fish. The tank should be suitable so long as it is cleaned very well after the dosing. If it were me, I would be more inclined to break the tank down and give it a good wiping out before introducing the other set of breeders, but your technique may work just as well. I've never tried to clean the tanks by dillution after a strong medication.
Larry Vires
Impossible only means that somebody hasn't done it correctly yet.
Re: Treating oodium/velvet
I'm reviving an old thread as I have a similar problem and had some follow-up questions. I have a quarantine tank for my new arrivals containing platys and corys. Some platys have developed classic signs of velvet and I have started treating with Malachite Green using half dose so that my Corys are harmed as little as possible. Instructions from all vendors recommend DAILY dosing for 7 to 14 days, with a 25% water change between each dosing. Malachite green is degraded by light so vendors also recommend keeping all lights off for the entire treatment course.
Here is the problem: I performed a 25% water change about 24 hours after the first dose (half dose), then I delivered a new dose (half dose again) after the water change (and used a water conditioner/dechlorinator of course). Upon giving the second dose, all fish including corys rushed to the water surface and started gasping for air within 30 seconds of dosing. It looked like they were getting poisoned, so I immediately did a 50% water change. Now all are back to normal and I did not give any more Malachite Green doses. It is clear to me that there was a Malachite green overdose even though I only gave a total of two half doses (half dose x 2 days). I did not give any more doses, and I am now on the 4th day since starting treatment. The fish are all back to normal and there are no more fish with velvet signs or behaviors. Should I give another half dose now to complete a 10 to 14 day treatment? I am afraid of cutting my treatment too short and re-establishing this parasite, but I am also afraid of causing another overdose.
Any advice you can give is welcome!
Here is the problem: I performed a 25% water change about 24 hours after the first dose (half dose), then I delivered a new dose (half dose again) after the water change (and used a water conditioner/dechlorinator of course). Upon giving the second dose, all fish including corys rushed to the water surface and started gasping for air within 30 seconds of dosing. It looked like they were getting poisoned, so I immediately did a 50% water change. Now all are back to normal and I did not give any more Malachite Green doses. It is clear to me that there was a Malachite green overdose even though I only gave a total of two half doses (half dose x 2 days). I did not give any more doses, and I am now on the 4th day since starting treatment. The fish are all back to normal and there are no more fish with velvet signs or behaviors. Should I give another half dose now to complete a 10 to 14 day treatment? I am afraid of cutting my treatment too short and re-establishing this parasite, but I am also afraid of causing another overdose.
Any advice you can give is welcome!
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Barbie
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Re: Treating oodium/velvet
Please start a new thread with the answers to the questions asked in the sticky at the top of the forum. Then we can be sure you get specific answers for your particular situation. Thanks!
Barbie
Barbie