building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[ElTofi]

I usually post the picture tags from my facebook albums... where they are stocked safely for long... but I'll try the hosting solution these next days... finding a fishhobbyist moment is quite a challenge these last months... ask my 9 months old son why...

[Thomas W]

What a beautiful tank. I also plan to build a similar tank, maybe a Xingu Biotop.
This is truly a good inspiration ElTofi

[ElTofi]

I try another way, from AquAgora gallery...

let's see what I can share with you...

One of my panaque L191, captured sleeping on a zuchinni last week... it spent a few days into the 720, just to shoot decent pictures... 24 cm TL... and it's not the biggest... this little guy was only 7 cm in December 2010...



good, it works... picture directly at the right size, from the origin site... I'll keep it posting next days with this way...

[2wheelsx2]

That's a beautiful specimen.

[ElTofi]

a few more pictures of the "jungle" above it :

[Viktor Jarikov]

Amazing stuff, Eltofi.

Are the half-sphere baskets, housing some plants and touching water, made of a metal? If yes, are you not afraid of contaminating the water?

[nvcichlids]

beautiful as always. That tank could easily house archers and look amazing, to bad they aren't from the amazon.

Any new stock in the pond?

[ElTofi]

Amazing stuff, Eltofi.

Are the half-sphere baskets, housing some plants and touching water, made of a metal? If yes, are you not afraid of contaminating the water?

yes, but I must admitt I didn't think of that too much as it's only 3-4 cm deep of steel covered with an anti-rost coating touching the water. Moreover, I change 350 liters a day (by the ceiling tube) and vacuum 800 liters every 2-3 days from the bottom by backwash from the sand filter...

nevertheless, it could be a point. I'll think about it... if you have any ideas or feed-back, they'll be welcome.

Nothing new into the pond for the next months... no time, no money, no energy... but I'll take another chance with a female leopoldi this next spring... as you may know, I lost my two little girls in two days , caused by a bacterian massive attack... the time for me to diagnose and it was too late...

From that time, my male do feel alone...

[Viktor Jarikov]

nevertheless, it could be a point. I'll think about it... if you have any ideas or feed-back, they'll be welcome.

If the coating is plastic and is strong, thick, scratch-free, and rust-free at the moment, I'd not worry too much but would have to keep at eye at any evidence of rust. I don't know the toxic concentration of iron (Fe++ and Fe+++) in the water... but from the little experience that I have, without firm evidence though, I have a feeling that even relatively small iron objects, like pieces of wire, can spoil water in small tanks and sicken fish or weaken their immune system. Again, this needs lots more research on-line and talking to the right people to understand the quantitative aspect of this.

Ideal would be, of course, plastic... or stainless steel as fish tanks are made of it too. My current belief is aluminum, copper could cause problems too.

[ElTofi]

I'm pretty sure that the metal is stainless steel... plus the coating...

but anyway, you made me doubt... and as I now have a "drop-fill-in" system which covers the half-sphere baskets, I will simply lift up the baskets of 4-5 cm to avoid their bottom to touch the water...

thanks for helping, that surely was a good point.

[2wheelsx2]

Iron oxidizes quickly in water and iron oxide is stable in water. Plus iron is not very soluble in water, hence the need for chelates for people with planted tanks, so I wouldn't worry too much about, as you're doing plenty of water changes.

[Linus_Cello]

Did your phaleanopsis bloom on its own, or did you get it in spike/in bloom (they usually need a 55-60 degree F night time temperature to initiate spiking)? I would move the vandas closer to your light out put, as they need much higher light, and consider moving the phalaenopsis further away to make sure the leaves don't burn. And have you considered getting some phragmipedium orchids? You can grow them somewhat in the water ("wet feet.").

[Viktor Jarikov]

I didn't mean anything beyond what I said. Just something to be aware of and keep learning about.

I may be wrong but I think stainless steel almost never gets coated in ordinary applications. Neither does galvanized steel. It's an unnecessary expense and hence higher price tag for the manufacturer. Almost all metal coated in vinyl is the ordinary, lowest grade zinc-plated steel that starts rusting quickly if it wasn't for the coating.

[ElTofi]

anyway, Viktor, I've lifted it up of around 2 inches, right above water level... problem solved...

Linus_cello : considering the orchids...

Phalaenopsis bloomed for the third time in a year, but they indeed do much better from the moment I placed them "in the shadow" of another plant... that said, this "rule" suffers 2 major exceptions : the two pieces on the hanged root... they take full light (14'000 lumen, 6500 kelvin) and never did so well... you can see the future new flowers on the 4th and 5th pictures hereunder...

You're absolutely right saying Vanda need full light on ! they did much better (with a bloom coming mature in a few days-weeks) from the moment I placed them under the right LED spot. I will try to do the same for the 2 pieces on the left of the tank... they do receive full light, but from 5 feet away...

considering other "feet in the water" orchids, it's simply impossible, mainly due to the Myleus, which love to "taste" anything green coming into water...

more info these next days... thanks for your suggestions and comments.

[ElTofi]

@Linus_cello :

talking about orchids, I have :

- Dendrobium spp (picture of July 2012)
- an orchid from Java (which I can't remember the name... something javaensis) which makes wonderful new leaves, but no flower yet...
- 6 pieces of Phalaenopsis spp (hybrid)
- 4 pieces of Vanda spp (hybrid)

and a few other plants, like Tilandsia, Spathyphyllum, Philodendron gigantea ("Monstera"), Rhipsalis, Scindapsus, Asplenium, Echinodorus, Anthurium sp "Columbia" (wild), Bromeliae spp...

it's a fascinating (and new) world for me...

any suggestion for another plant which could cover my wall and give more "thickness" to it ?

[DBam]

I can't speak much to tropical plants. I was wondering if you're planning on adding a UV sterilizer at any point, or if there's a reason you've stayed from using one. Sorry to hear about the 2 rays.

[ElTofi]

I do have 2 UV sterilizers on the filtrations boxes... but the point is that bacteria still are in the sand, on the roots, into the rays themselves... UV sterilizers are efficients on bacteria in water, maybe on smaller volumes...

I had a talk twice with a specialized vet from a swiss importer and he identified the problem based on my descriptions :

- high production of mucus in about 12 hours
- rays stopped eating in 5-6 hours
- 24 hours later, they were dead

he told me it was a signal for a kidney dysfunction (caused by bacteria) and that the only efficient way to cure them was to feed them with "Baytril" shrimps in fact, it's a large spectrum antibiotic. Which I did... after having a talk with the Vet of my village (used to treat cows, horses, cats and dogs, and absolutely not fishes, moreover stingrays)...

but it was too late... the 2 little females were dead...

the other fishes (stingray male + every cichlid, Myleus, Arowanas or L-numbers) never seem to be bothered by anything at any time...

and they go on well...

[Linus_Cello]

Phragmepedium orchids are ladyslipper orchids from south america. You grow them in a plastic pot with drainage holes in the bottom, and submerge the pot part way (1-4 inches in the water) so they grow in "wet feet." There shouldn't be any roots that grow out of the pot for the fish to eat (if this happens, time to repot in a larger pot). About or a little more light than what the phals get.

Another hanging orchid you may want to consider are the brassavolas, specifically Brassavola nodosa. The has a wonderful fragrance that is strongest at night. Amount of light is just a little less than the vandas, more than the phals.

[DJ-don]

Such a magnificent project! it just comes to show what everyone dreams of doing

But just a thought, how have you managed to heat the tank in the first place? your electricity bill must be crazy as well

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Cissus discolor would be an option for the back wall, it is a fantastic climber in warm moist conditions. Another option would be a climbing Lygodium fern, L. japonicum is probably the easiest to find, and would be great.

You could try another Aroid for the back wall, There are some nice Philodendrons that might do. Philodendron scandens is easy and likes it wet, but my first choice would be P. melanochrysum, if you can get it.

I'm a big Gesnerid fan, and there are some lovely Columnea spp. that would do. C x banksii is an easy one or C. microphylla?

This is the Tropical pond in the Princess of Wales Conservatory at Kew Gardens, unfortunately it doesn't have the huge branch any more, but it gives you an idea.


cheers Darrel

[rob rensen]

Great pic of you're tank !! Beautiful !!

[ElTofi]

Phragmepedium orchids are ladyslipper orchids from south america. You grow them in a plastic pot with drainage holes in the bottom, and submerge the pot part way (1-4 inches in the water) so they grow in "wet feet." There shouldn't be any roots that grow out of the pot for the fish to eat (if this happens, time to repot in a larger pot). About or a little more light than what the phals get.

Another hanging orchid you may want to consider are the brassavolas, specifically Brassavola nodosa. The has a wonderful fragrance that is strongest at night. Amount of light is just a little less than the vandas, more than the phals.

Thanks for advice... I'll try to see what I can find in my area... In fact I'm more like looking for something "covering" for the wall... but a few more orchids should be fine too... I'll get 2 more pieces of Hoya spp "variegata" which do quite well under "my" conditions... and grow fast without being too demanding...

Such a magnificent project! it just comes to show what everyone dreams of doing
But just a thought, how have you managed to heat the tank in the first place? your electricity bill must be crazy as well

I admit it's not so easy to find every information if you didn't follow the topic from the beginning... in fact, the tank is heated by a by-pass circuit from my wood pellets home boiler. The 186 meters long circuit runs into the basement of the tank, drowned into concrete (one heating tube each 5 cm)... I have a temperature sensor which commands the opening of the 3 valves of the circuit from the boiler (or shut them). Moreover, I insulated the local which is into the basement of the house... even without heating, I can maintain 16°C (even in hard winter with -18°C outside)... So the need to heat is not so huge... The problem of humidity is regulated by a enslaved fan, which takes "ON-OFF" order from a humidity sensor (I can set up a value of humidity in %). The "wet" air goes directly outside the house, by a ventilation channel.

Hi all,
Cissus discolor would be an option for the back wall, it is a fantastic climber in warm moist conditions. Another option would be a climbing Lygodium fern, L. japonicum is probably the easiest to find, and would be great.

You could try another Aroid for the back wall, There are some nice Philodendrons that might do. Philodendron scandens is easy and likes it wet, but my first choice would be P. melanochrysum, if you can get it.

...cheers Darrel

Darrel,
thanks for your inputs... precious to me... I'll try to see if I can find the species you and Linus_Cello are advising me...

I'll keep in touch soon as I have 2 weeks holidays to "waste" my monney in GArden Center shops around my area... too many good ideas and not enough time to realize them all...

this tank took 15 months from the idea to his "filling with water"... and it goes on with improvement processes all the time... thank God ! that's what makes it so fascinating... sharing and improving...

[ElTofi]

Great pic of you're tank !! Beautiful !!

Thanks Rob, I think so too

[ElTofi]

a few more pictures of the green wall

[ElTofi]

a little video from this morning... ouch, arowanas do have teeth...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Beautiful. Having been bitten by my aros, I always use long twizzers for such feedings. They often seem to have to lounge at food, dead or not. One can use a heavy duty glove too, like a dish-washing glove.

[ElTofi]

handglove trick "approved"... I will... for sure

and they are only half their way to adulthood...

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Your plants look to be doing really well (the Vanda looks good), seeing its open basket makes me think you might like to try Stanhopea tigrina, a real favourite Orchid.

The Philodendron (behind the flowering Phalaenopsis), looks like it is probably P. melanochrysum, which I recommended previously. All vine like Philodendrons are easy to propagate from cuttings, particularly if they form aerial roots. Rosette forming species (like Philodendron bipinnatifidum), will eventually start to climb as well.

I thought of another suitable fern, the leather or Mangrove Ferns, Acrostichum, (either of A. aureum or A. speciosum) would be good.

Another possibility that would be easy to purchase would be the house plant Ficus benjamina, they are really "strangler figs" that start epiphytically and the produce great aerial roots in humid conditions. You might need to put it somewhere where you could remove it (if it became a bit "over-enthusiastic").

cheers Darrel

[Bas Pels]

As I'm thinking of putting a similar 'jungle' above one of my tanks - but Bromilids based and less Orchids - I'm quite curious about the needed lighting.

What lights do you use?

[rob rensen]

ouch indeed


very nice movie....great !!