Good news everybody!

[catfishchaos]

Seller contacted me and were sorting through things right know...


Both parties would appear to have been having extensive comunication issues.


Ultimately I'm the Dirtbag for assuming. My apologies.

[mattlamm]

I think you are justified in being upset for not receiving what you ordered. It is not the buyer's responsibility to ensure the seller buys from reputable suppliers. If @JuiceyFish got supplied duds that is his/her problem. If you ordered a car and when you went to pick it up it was the wrong model, the dealer couldn't expect you to be happy just because their supplier says the car is what you ordered, when in fact it us not.

I'm tired of sellers not knowing about the fish they are selling. If you are in the business of selling live animals you should know how to identify what you are selling as well as supply information on caring for that animal should your buyer require this info. Yes there are cases where 2 species are very hard to tell apart, in which case misidentification could perhaps be excused, but in the case of a common clown pleco and an L306 they are quite easy to tell apart.

[Narwhal72]

This could be all be chalked up to some misidentification and a misunderstanding except...

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 13&t=40317

Seems to me you (JuiceyFish) passed off the fish that were identified to you as Panaqolous maccus back in April, as L306 to someone else. You were fully aware of the rarity of L306 and the identification of the fish you had.

That's just dirty and it now appears that there is sufficient evidence for the end buyer to pursue a criminal complaint against you for fraud. Since the fish were shipped through the mail that's a federal offense (mail fraud). I would suggest you find a good defense attorney.

Andy

[racoll]

Seems to me you (JuiceyFish) passed off the fish that were identified to you as Panaqolous maccus back in April, as L306 to someone else. You were fully aware of the rarity of L306 and the identification of the fish you had.

That's just dirty and it now appears that there is sufficient evidence for the end buyer to pursue a criminal complaint against you for fraud. Since the fish were shipped through the mail that's a federal offense (mail fraud). I would suggest you find a good defense attorney.

Ouch! No excuses now.

I remember that thread, just forgot that it was the same people involved

[Juiceyfish]

This could be all be chalked up to some misidentification and a misunderstanding except...

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 13&t=40317

Seems to me you (JuiceyFish) passed off the fish that were identified to you as Panaqolous maccus back in April, as L306 to someone else. You were fully aware of the rarity of L306 and the identification of the fish you had.

That's just dirty and it now appears that there is sufficient evidence for the end buyer to pursue a criminal complaint against you for fraud. Since the fish were shipped through the mail that's a federal offense (mail fraud). I would suggest you find a good defense attorney.

Andy

Ok well let me get this straight .... The fish that are in a earlier post with green gravel they are all gone also if you read the whole thread nobody completely confirmed what the pleco was ... Since then I got new ones and as for them being that small and young and they have different markings on the head and being more redish I can only go by what pple tell me and what I see from pics and what my supplier says as well.... As for sending in the mail!??this my friend is def illegal but literally Impossible because they would feel the water in the package im sure please Get your facts in order a cause these were not sent by mail at all they were sent by a delivery service just to get that part straight


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[Juiceyfish]

I'm not looking to scam or sell people bullshit also not all people are educated the same as everyone else on this site for if of fish as you can see most post are about I'ds and mislabeled fish but I certainly don't see chaos on them threads! I think that may be the reason this form might have been created to help educate people with their plecos ?!? I'm not looking to start a war over a damn fish.... I will resign from this form if this is what floats all your boats ! Thanks





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[catfishchaos]

I'm not looking to scam or sell people bullshit also not all people are educated the same as everyone else on this site for if of fish as you can see most post are about I'ds and mislabeled fish but I certainly don't see chaos on them threads! I think that may be the reason this form might have been created to help educate people with their plecos ?!? I'm not looking to start a war over a damn fish.... I will resign from this form if this is what floats all your boats ! Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nobody is asking you to resign.

[mattlamm]

What people do expect is that sellers actually know how to ID the fish they are selling. Especially when the same seller has "misidentified" the exact same fish in the past. Surely you can see how that looks to be a scam whether it is or isn't?

Also, now that you have once again been informed that it is not a L306, why should the buyer pay L306 price for a common, cheaper fish? If you have a dodgy supplier that should be your problem, not his/hers.

[bicske]

Hello Everyone,

First post, though I've been reading the posts for a while. I think we often forget that even with reputable LFS catfish are grossly misidentified. I've picked up rare catfish for a fraction of their going price because they were misidentified at the LFS. Same can happen the other way around too as is the case here. Many stores will not take a fish back because the buyer didn't do their due diligence prior to purchasing a fish and only realized when they got home that their fish is not what they thought it was. Most of the time we're lucky if they take a fish back that died on the way home. With online transactions it is as much the buyer's fault not asking for pictures and confirming themselves as it is the seller's...blame goes both way folks let's not forget that.

[mattlamm]

The difference when it is the otherway around, and you get an expensive fish for cheap, is that no one has parted with extra cash. Sure, the seller could have sold it for more, but he didn't buy it for a large sum from his supplier and then sell it at a loss. No one has parted with extra money being made to believe the fish is one thing when it is infact another.

[Narwhal72]

Ok well let me get this straight .... The fish that are in a earlier post with green gravel they are all gone also if you read the whole thread nobody completely confirmed what the pleco was ... Since then I got new ones and as for them being that small and young and they have different markings on the head and being more redish I can only go by what pple tell me and what I see from pics and what my supplier says as well.... As for sending in the mail!??this my friend is def illegal but literally Impossible because they would feel the water in the package im sure please Get your facts in order a cause these were not sent by mail at all they were sent by a delivery service just to get that part straight

BS excuses. You must be reading some different imaginary thread. The fish was positively identified as P. maccus and was repeatedly denied as ever being L306. You mention that they came from a local supplier. Probably the same one you got the most recent "L306" from too isn't it? You have scammed two people now and been caught red handed. How you can continue to deny wrongdoing is beyond me.

If you didn't use a governmental carrier it may not be mail fraud. But it's still fraud. There is clearly a lot of evidence that you misrepresented the identity of these fish in order to charge a higher price.

It's not up to me to pursue charges against you. But the consumer(s) who purchased these fish from you certainly can. I suggest you make it right before things get even worse for you. YOU made the mistake. Own up to it now or pay the price later is all I can tell you.

[Dave Rinaldo]

All said.... the fish pictured/received/sent at the top of this thread are

Panaqolus maccus

.
NOT

Panaqolus sp(l306)

.

[catfishchaos]

This thread is starting to bum me out. I mean the title in itself is very misleading of the threads turn out... I realize that the money is gone and I realize that even though I'm out 200 dwelling on it will not do anything. What we need to focus on know is the fish I have on hand. Yes I'm bummed there not what I asked for but they are nice. There in good health, and there entertaining. I've been trying to take pictures but they make it very difficult Lol usually I'm lucky to see a tail or pectoral fin dangling from the wood. My fear know that I know they have wrongfully Id'd is that they have been wrongfully sexed so I'll tear apart my fish tank tonight and get them into a bucket to see how many of what I have. I have noticed that there has been some behavior I've seen from cave spawners happening I think... On of the wood pieces has a small hole that leads into a compartment. I see one fish (acts like the male) guarding the exit often plugging it with his body and staying half in. Are P.maccus cave spawners? I was under the impression they were harder to breed but is this breeding behavior?

I'll get a video if I can and when I get home tonight I'll post more pictures of my little plecos and the other residents because there just SO MUCH more photogenic than the goofy clowns.
Thanks everybody
James

[Narwhal72]

Sorry your bummed out James. I would be too if I got taken for $200. You put your trust in a retailer and he ripped you off is what it boils down to. It wasn't a simple misidentification mistake. He's done it before. If I were you I would fight to get my money back or at the very list spread the word about him so that others don't get ripped off like you and Carldweller did.

Spawning clowns is a little more difficult than spawning bristlenose but it's pretty much the same method. Provide them with a suitable cave and make sure you have males and females and they will eventually spawn. The cave should be at least twice the lenghth of the male and tall enough that the dorsal fin is not able to be held fully erect. It should be wide enough that the males pectoral fins do not outstretch fully. If the cave is too large, the males cannot trap the females and they won't spawn.

Males are pretty easy to tell apart when they are ready to spawn by the large odontodes (bristles) they will have on the interopercular and rear half of the body. Juveniles and non breeding males will not be as evident. I would recommend using soft water (RO or Deionized water) to help avoid snubnose deformations on the fry. This was something I dealt with in my first spawnings with the similar L15 and have had happen from time to time since then.

Andy

[catfishchaos]

Juiceyfish, I'm not sure why you would say I asked for 200 and then post the message were I ask for 160...

To every one following, helping and lurking (I know your there ) I want to say thank you for helping me through all of this, helping me recover, all your advice, your IDs and your patience. But I need you all to do me a favor, I want you to let this one go. When I look at my fish tank and see everybody happy, healthy, feeding, spawning and showing true colours, I realize that is something that is priceless. I would pay 1000 dollars to keep it that way so 200 is nothing. I'm asking a lot from you guys, and I know you barely know me, But i will change that in the future as I immerse into this forum to learn, help and participate. This is not what this forum is for And I feel bad enough to waste its space with this "war thread". I ask you all to stop encouraging this madness like I have so blindly been doing. I will be starting a thread to discuss my clown plecos and I ask nobody brings anything from this thread over to that one.

to Juiceyfish: you have called me "pathetic" "ignorant" "kid" and that hurts but if you call a 16 year old those things, are you really much better? I admit to being all those things, because every human is at one time or another. But I realize that fighting for nothing is just that.

Juiceyfish: If a ignorant kid is telling you this you might want to rethink your life a little.

Any man can start a war But a grown man can and will walk away when nothing will be gained.

Jools: for the integrity and the purpose of this forum and to preserve what little dignity me and juiceyfish have left please close this thread as soon as you can

I'm done fighting, I just want to talk about plecos with friends, beginners and experts like Planetcatfish is famous for.

[Jools]

It seems there is little to gain from letting this thread run, and as the OP has also requested it, I will lock it. I think it's time to move on.

Jools