Finally another first "for me at least"

[pleco_breeder]

I'm going to start by saying this was completely accidental, and the fish had even less care than if I were going to try to get them to spawn. This one is strictly luck.

Three and a half years ago, I bought a group of eight tank raised

L184

from Dr. Stephan Tanner of Swiss Tropicals. I know they're regularly raised, but a lot of people still tend to have trouble with getting them to spawn. Of the eight, I lost two during grow out for unknown reasons. Since they were a bit beaten when found, I've always assumed it was because of territorial dispute. At any rate, I ended up with three pair which are housed as such in five gallon tanks on a 100 gallon central system which I normally use for breeding tetras. Even in larger tanks they don't tend to stray far from the caves the males tend to inhabit, and I've never seen either males or females more than a couple inches from the males caves even during feeding since they've become mature enough to sex.

In March of this year, I found eggs in all three tanks. However, the eggs were VERY small for an Ancistrus, and closer to the size of whiptails. They also weren't sticking together as I would expect and just rolled around the tank floor individually or in pairs. Since I had been told they didn't mature till around five years, by Dr. Tanner when I bought them, I chalked it up to immaturity and continued to simply maintain them in clean water expecting I would need to wait at least another year even though they were already full size, males are five inches and females are slightly larger than four.

Fast forward to this past week. I've been down with a bit of flu all week this week, so the tanks haven't received much more care than the normal twice daily feeding and twice weekly fifty percent water change I do on their rack. My water changes are, for the most part, automated, so I only had to stand there while the system drained and then re-fill. On Wednesday, I ran out of my pre-mix water for this rack, so it was drained and then re-filled with only enough water to cover the pump. This is apparently the water change which triggered them to spawn. I haven't given the tanks any real search since because I really haven't felt up to doing more than just throwing them some food and going back to bed.

This morning, I woke up early (probably because I've slept the vast majority of the time since Wednesday evening) to go out and do another set of water changes. As usual, I started on the opposite end of the garage from the tetra rack, and slowly worked my way over as the tanks drained. I do this because the tetras usually start spawning about the same time I turn the lights on and they're usually done by the time I get to them, and can be removed to allow the eggs to hatch peacefully. While siphoning a bit of waste from the tanks, I spotted a batch of about a dozen, HUGE for an Ancistrus, eggs on the tank floor. One of them appeared to have either ruptured, been eaten, or hatched. Since the others had clearly visible eyes and body inside the eggs, I figured I would pop them back in with the male. He wasn't happy about it, kicked them out the first attempt, but kept them after I lifted the end of the cave straight up and they fell past him to the front.

Apparently, this was enough commotion for them to break free a couple hours later. The male has been kind of half-hearted about fanning since the eggs went back, so I was worried he may have been eating them. However, six hours after placing them back in the cave I can clearly see movement if the male moves just right.

I'm a bit skittish to post my water values here because of flames which have happened in the past, and I'm fully aware they're not the normal for any fish tank. However, it wouldn't be a complete record of the event without them.

pH 7.0
NH3/4 0
NO2 0
NO3 0 (yes...that's a zero) There hasn't been a detectable value in over a year and a half.
temp. 81
TDS 35
DO 7.2
VERY strong current provided by airstone
Filtration HMF, settling tank (cleaned daily), DIY protein skimmer, Kaldness reactor with a mix of K1 and bio chips, 5 micron canister, and purigen reactor. The HMF has only been on the system for three weeks. Prior to that, I simply used aquaclear sponges over the overflows.

Since I'm sure these likely hatched prematurely, because it happened so quickly after placing them back in the cave, I'll have to wait a few days to see if there are any problems with the fry. However, after doing this for so long, it has became extremely rare that I get to have a personal first. For that reason, I'm quite ecstatic.

Larry

[pleco_breeder]

A lot of questions both through the site and email, so I'm going to address the two most common here. I'm sure there are others with the same questions, and just not asking.

First is the protein skimmer and filter design. The original filter is VERY simple aside from the skimmer. Even then, it's just a standard DIY counter-current skimmer. I use the return flow from my central system to operate it rather than an external pump. I've included a pic of the original filter design after completion. The final tube is the kaldness reactor. I had to keep a cap sitting on the media to keep it submerged while it colonized.

Next, is the "Without pics it didn't happen" crowd. Anybody that has ever tried knows how difficult it is to get a decent pic of fry hiding under a male. Not only are they adamant to keep things hidden, but when they get excited and jump, the photographer gets just as startled and focus is no longer an option. I did get a pic...and if you squint just right, stand on your head, close your left eye, and say "I can see babies" three times, you can almost see the orange from their yolk sacs to the lower right of the male. I intentionally leave a lowered area, between the pipe and the base of the cap, in my caves to allow a small pocket where eggs and fry can settle and be less likely to be kicked out. He's done it twice with this clutch, but they have officially hatched and most are still in the cave.

Larry

[JamesFish]

Well done. Look forward to hearing how you raise them.

[pleco_breeder]

Got a much better pic this morning while doing my check, so thought I would share.

Larry

[dw1305]

Hi all,

NO3 0 (yes...that's a zero) There hasn't been a detectable value in over a year and a half.......TDS 35

Nitrate levels probably are zero, or very close, if you only have 35ppm TDS (~50 microS.)

The nitrate test kit probably isn't very accurate, but TDS (really conductivity) is easy to measure accurately and with it that low you have very few ions of any description in your tank water.

cheers Darrel

[pleco_breeder]

The nitrate levels read the same on all my racks currently with the same design, regardless of TDS. Single tanks, which don't get the same filtration luxury and my tap, both read 20 ppm. I'm assuming water changes are the reason there isn't a testable difference in those.

Even with one gallon per hour water change on most of the central systems, 90 gallon total volume, the system water is undetectable while the water coming in tests 20 ppm. TDS in those is normally 245 ppm.

Larry

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The nitrate levels read the same on all my racks currently with the same design, regardless of TDS. Single tanks, which don't get the same filtration luxury and my tap, both read 20 ppm. I'm assuming water changes are the reason there isn't a testable difference in those. Even with one gallon per hour water change on most of the central systems, 90 gallon total volume, the system water is undetectable while the water coming in tests 20 ppm. TDS in those is normally 245 ppm.

More and more interesting. I'm assuming you don't have plants, so is the Kaldnes filter acting as a plenum? and the NO3 is being out-gassed as N2?

I'm also interested in the TDS values, the L184 "rack" tank and other central system tanks are getting RO? and the single tanks tap?

cheers Darrel

[pleco_breeder]

I'm not exactly sure why the nitrates bottomed out after adding the filters, but have a couple ideas as to what may be helping it. First is the pre-filter on the exit of the settling tank. I'm using 30 ppi one inch foam. This blocks most of the particulate matter from getting to the skimmer where it can interfere. The skimmer is set to produce a very soupy filtrate. Initially, it was near the color of apple juice, but doesn't really have any color anymore. I haven't tested against either fresh tap or tank water, but there is a notable smell to the waste from the skimmer. Beyond that, I do believe the kaldness is acting as a media for nitrogen removal, but not sure of the mechanisms taking place.

Shortly after I started making these for my systems, and having noticed what had happened, I tested one of my systems which was essentially just housing livebearer culls at the time. I then emptied all the fish out of one of the tanks, still attached via the central system, and put a quarter pound filet I had bought at the grocery store in it. By morning, that tank was so white you couldn't see the back wall and ammonia was off the scale. Testing in the sump, after it had came through the filter, I was getting perfect readings.

I won't claim to be an expert on this because I don't know what I did right, but I'm quite happy with the results I've gotten.

As to the systems, I'm currently running three. Only the rack with the L184 is normally mixed water. I water change fifty percent of it twice a week from a barrel which I have plumbed to fill with 90 percent RO and ten percent tap. I've got a pH controller and peristaltic pump connected to the barrel which I normally use for treating to reduce the pH. However, I currently need to replace the tubing on the peristaltic pump before I can get that part going again.

The other two systems are normally tap water systems. Drip emitters normally clog very rapidly, so I use rotameters connected to the tap water to control their flow. During dry seasons, I turn them down a bit, but normally these are operated at one gallon per hour. When simulating a rainy season for the more difficult species, I still don't adjust the rotameters much. I just do a couple coldwater RO changes a week to trigger.

In the case of the L184, their parameters have been relatively stable since I stopped acid treating early this year.

Larry

[Taratron]

Congrats Larry!