L114 Color Morphs

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L114 Color Morphs

Post by ClayT101 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:50 pm

I picked up an L114 the other day. It has a really nice orange tail. The owner of the LFS is pretty knowledgeable, and was telling me that there were 2 types / color morphs based on collection point, but he could not remember where. Basically, there are 2 types. One has a solid orange tail, with a not as distinct leopard pattern. Then there is the second, which only has orange on the tips of the tail, and a more distinct leopard pattern. He had one of each, and the color differences / patterns were very obvious in person. Here are sample pictures from the internet. Can anyone provide additional information?

Orange Tail:
Image

Leopard Pattern:
Image
Thanks
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by ClayT101 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:53 pm

Here is the one that I picked up btw. It is about 3 inches. Maybe a little more.
19396950_1298059380301029_4774163911571954399_n.jpg
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by bekateen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:01 pm

@PseudaSmart and @CharlieM9 what are your thoughts?

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by flatfish » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:42 am

In my experience the orange tailed ones often end up with more spotted tails as they grow.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by Acanthicus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:57 pm

Hi,

the first picture shows P. leopardus, not L 114.

I agree on the different colourations, but its just likely that a widespreaded species like this shows different colours in different populations. There is one, which is entirely brown, but its rarely seen in the trade.

Image
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by PseudaSmart » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:12 pm

Hi, what is a seemingly simple question has in fact taken me on a 6 year? quest for the answer. Without going into a lot of detail I am comfortable stating that for the leopardus species there is the described one from the Rio Rupunui in Guyana and currently 4 other base variations.

One easy way to prove a base or stable variation is to look at the offspring. If a very high percentage of them look like the parents then it is a base, morph, sp.,etc. (yes I know each has a slightly different meaning.). An extreme counter example are albino bushynose. I had one pair of blue-eyes and there were albino blue-eyes, albino red eyes, brown wth brown eyes, and grey with brown eyes,

This work was done with input from collectors, exporters, and importers along with supporting photos. With luck I hope to get the entire Pseudacanthicus paper published by the end of the next year.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by ClayT101 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:53 am

Thanks. Yeah I googled L600 vs L114 and came across your thread about it. Interesting stuff. Do you think L600 is also the same species?
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by PseudaSmart » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:25 am

The label L600 is a P. leopardus. It is not a true L number but a trade name that stuck because everyone other than the pros find it easier to speak in numbers.
To be honest it is easier to type. That is why I started saying pseudas instead of Pseudacanthicus. There are plenty of other genus that use the same prefix but when used in context everyone understands.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by flatfish » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:04 am

Hi all,

sorry to temporarily hijack this thread. The photo of the orange tailed L600 at the top of the post is my fish - now a healthy adult female L600. I always thought that we only had L114 in New Zealand so having an L600 is a nice surprise. Daniel and Jim here are my 3 pairs of leopard cactus plecos. One of the females is the L600 above. Would you be able to have a look at them and see if there are any more L600's in the group. Sorry about the pics. They were taken a while ago and it is a mission to catch and photograph them from other angles.

cheers

Darren

Image
Image
Image

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by ClayT101 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:35 pm

No problem on the hijack.
So is L114 also Pseudacanthicus leopardus?
Is that what your paper is about?
Are there geographic differences that would make it impossible for them to be all one species?
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by flatfish » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:17 am

I am no expert but I think either L600 and L114 are part of a widespread species with different regional types or L600 and L114 are closely related but separate species. I guess genetics should set some light on the situation.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by ClayT101 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:57 pm

Here is a better picture of the tail on mine. Little beat up, but should heal nicely.
20170623_082004_resized_1.jpg
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by flatfish » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:22 pm

They are pretty hardy. The tail should heal quickly if it not stressed

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by 7Pete » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:18 am

Quite small pattern in this L114 head? Male 23-24 cm.
20170805_223139netti.jpg
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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by DHarris » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:43 am

So I've got what I believe is an L114 and an L600 or Leopardus (More of a green base, very small spots on head and a more solid orange looking tail). Will try to get pics but they only come out to feed or with lights off and when they're feeding they're very skittish. Both are about 4"

Was curious where the L427 fits into the equation. Unless I'm mistaken, which is highly possible, your L114 with the small spots on the head is an L427. Regardless, gorgeous fish.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by Mol_PMB » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:50 pm

You've got me intrigued now! I bought a baby Pseuda from the CSG convention in March this year, only an inch long and sold as L427, from a breeder in Germany (I think?). My understanding from the profile of Pseudacanthicus sp(l427) is that the difference is very obvious in adults but not in juveniles. Although mine has doubled in size in 5 months, it's still very small and has a distinct and coarse pattern.
Sorry for the photo quality, it's a bit shy!
Attachments
orange_tail_3.jpg
[clog]Pseudacanthicus sp(l427)[/clog] juvenile, approx 2"SL

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by CharlieM9 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:40 am

I do not see any L427 in this thread. Photos of your young one as it grows may change that but right now, there are none here. I also am not seeing anything that would leave me to believe there is a true leopardus/aka 600 in this thread either. Amount of orange on fins can be as variable aspeed the body pattern on Hypancistrus species.

You can go round and round playing the ID game, but unless you know what river they were collected from you may never be 100% sure. Unless you have its DNA tested... I have yet to see any pleco that has any type of reticulated pattern not be variable at some point....

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by Acanthicus » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Hi,

the juvenile above is a L 427 for sure, I know it's parents and the breeder. It cant get more "L427ish".

Also there is P. leopardus on the top of the thread. Its not only the orange colouration in the caudal fin, but the spot pattern on the head and the slightly flatter head morphology. If all matches each other it is possible to distinguish P. leopardus from P. cf. leopardus (L 114).

cheers, Daniel
Daniel

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by CharlieM9 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:43 pm

Acanthicus wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:11 pm
Hi,

the juvenile above is a L 427 for sure, I know it's parents and the breeder. It cant get more "L427ish".
You should be confident with your young as 427 then Mol. As they are just very uncommon since it is a trip the fishermen make just for that fish. You should never find 427 mixed in with 114 or 600 just because ofor distant between rivers they are collected in.

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Re: L114 Color Morphs

Post by PseudaSmart » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 am

ClayT101,
Your first photo is not a true p. leopardus (l600 trade name) but a variant more commonly called an lda07 from the Rio Takutu. The pectoral and pelvic fins don't have the L600 pattern.

Another species identification observation about flattened bodies is no longer a valid characteristic. A flatter body is actually a growth phase dependent on food supply. Just like our kids they don't grow old in all directions at the same time either.

I agree that the L427 has proper lineage even with a bad picture. Confirmation from Ole, Andreas, and Michael is more than enough for me.

I have 5 different leopardus currently for comparison.
They will both grow into great pseudas no matter what they are called!
Jim
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Spawned to date: L25, L65, L97, L114, L160, L185, L427, LDA07 and P. leopardus (L600).
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