L260 unusual egg laying location?

[MarcW]

Thanks for the responses, I did consider trying to put them back in the cave I'll try that if it happens again.

I think I have one female, they were sold as two pairs however three of them are now very hairy!

I'll try to get hold of some meth blue in case it happens again and I can't get the eggs back in the cave.

Thanks again.

[Jobro]

On my last L260 spawn, I found a single egg. I put it into a breeder box and a few days later it actually hatched. after one or two days the fry just died... I feel like L260 are really tough to be raised artificially. Other fry rarely dies after spawn on me...

However, I got 11 healthy fry out of the fathers cave a week later or so. It's siblings all survived, but the one dropped out of the cave died

Dad:

fry about 7-10 days after hatching

Fry 10 days later (with some H. Contradens fry)

[MarcW]

They have spawned again, and once again the male has kicked the eggs, despite the cave entrance being raised, he doesn't seem to be cut out to care for a spawn!

I have tried to put the eggs back with the male, however he refuses to leave the cave and I don't want to hurt him by removing forcefully, I placed the eggs in the cave near his tail, to see if he could manoeuvre around them, but later kicked them out again. I've repeated this three times so far.

For now they are in a floating breeding trap with a decent flow of water over them, hopefully I have more luck this time!

[bekateen]

Good luck with the new eggs. I suspect that eventually dad will step up and do it right. If he doesn't after a few more spawns, either he is just a "defective dad" or there is something else in the tank disturbing him. At that point, I'd consider examining the tank for other distractions - other tank mates, lighting, household noises and activities that might be scaring him.

Cheers, Eric

[MarcW]

Thanks Eric!

I suspect he isn't a great dad! Every time there has been a spawn, I have gone into the room in the morning to see the eggs against the glass. It's in my study so there is no light or activity overnight. L260 are the only inhabitants on the tank, when I have more room (tanks!) I think I'll remove the alpha male and let one of the others attempt to spawn, I have a feeling they couldn't do a worse job!

I'm going to try and get some methylene blue to use as a last resort if the eggs start to fungus, I'll move them to a separate container for that, but no where around me sells it so I suspect I'll have to order some on Monday to arrive on Tuesday. If this goes the same as previous spawns the eggs will all be bad by then.

Still I'm hoping that with every spawn I'll have a little more success than the last!

[bekateen]

Sounds like a plan, Marc.

You might also consider simply "rearranging the furniture" in the tank: Take all the fish out, move the caves and other decor to alter the landscape in the tank, then add the fish back.

This action can disrupt existing social structures, diminishing negative influences of dominant fish and potentially giving subordinate males a chance to find suitable spawning territory for themselves. Unless your group is already spawning frequently (which I glean they aren't), it won't hurt anyone to disrupt them for a short time, and might help in the long run. It worked for me with my clown plecos.

Cheers, Eric

[MarcW]

Sounds like a good idea Eric, I'll see how these eggs develop, if I lose them all, then I'll do as you suggest, and rehome them for a few minutes while I change the tank around.

[Jobro]

Marc, did you use the daily waterchange methode to get a spawn now? Or was it more randomly?

L260 seem to be really tough for me as well. I realized, that only one of my 4 males actually manages to raise fry successfully, the rest kicks them out or I find an abandoned cave with dead fry inside.

I also had not much luck with artificial breeding so far.

[MarcW]

This just happened out of the blue, I did my 50% water change as usual on Wednesday, then found the eggs Friday morning, the water change dropped the water temperature by 3-4 Celsius as it normally does.

The female has been very gravid for a couple of months now, so I guess it was only a matter of time before they spawned.

I have lost two eggs to fungus so far, I managed to find some API Pimafix locally so I put the eggs in a separate container floating in the parents tank with a few drops of it to try and prevent fungus, I'll see if that has worked in the morning.

They seem to be so tough for me to raise too, I've never had an egg hatch when I've looked after them, the one fry which did survive a spawn was cared for by a male in a cave, just out of luck I guess, whichever male is spawning seems pretty useless .

[MarcW]

Well the API Pimafix didn't help!

These eggs had the worst fungus I've seen, all looked good last night then this morning there was so much fungus I could barely see eggs!

I've attached some pictures below, I tried to clean off the fungus to get some pictures of the eggs. As far as I can tell there are no signs of development, so could all of these be infertile? Weirdly the eggs seemed in good condition beneath the fungus is that normal?

I have some methylene blue arriving today, I may add a couple drops to a container and add a few eggs I managed to excavate from the fungus to see if anything happens.

I think I really need to move things around to try and let another male have a go at spawning, I'm not having much luck with them!

[MarcW]

I put a few of the best looking eggs into a small pot of methylene blue, hoping the small bit of fungus on them may have been killed off.

It doesn't seem to have worked the fungus still appears to be spreading!

The eggs are still yellow 3 days or more after being laid, but there are no changes in appearance, could they be infertile and yet to change colour to white, or would the fungus have killed them off as soon as it occured stopping any development?

[Jobro]

Too bad, Marc

On me, they mostly manage to hatch the fry, and then suddenly, the dad leaves the cave and all I find is dead corpses of newly hatched fry...

[bekateen]

Sorry Marc, Keep trying, don't give up. Maybe stronger aeration? I've lost track of what all you've done, so maybe you already tried this.

Regards, Eric

[MarcW]

Thanks Eric, I do have a sponge filter in there as well as the external canister. When trying to hatch the eggs they are mostly in a floating breeding ring which has an airlift into it, enough to keep the eggs moving around.

I think my best bet is to change things around to try and have a male look after the eggs rather than kick them! I might add some more current too.

[MarcW]

During a water change today I found another fish in the tank! I guess its about 2 weeks old, and seems to back up previous observations that the dad is much better at looking after eggs than I am!

So far it's just one youngster I've found hopefully there are a few more somewhere!

[Jobro]

Congrats Marc
Once they are settled in, the parents should keep spawning all year round. You will have plenty of these little guys to come, soon.

[bekateen]

Good news, Marc!

Cheers, Eric

[MarcW]

Thanks! I'm not going to disturb them too much in case there are more not quite ready to leave a cave, its very clear they are better in the cave than with me looking after them !

[MarcW]

As I went in to feed tonight, after the room had been dark for 30 mins or so, I noticed at least 4 young, all seem to be at the point where the yolk has been fully absorbed, so hopefully they will make it, and I'll find some more soon!

[Jobro]

Sometimes 4 is almost a whole spawn for these With 15 being a really big spawn. But maybe it's different for yours.

[MarcW]

From the eggs I've seen kicked out in the past 15 maybe up to 20 seems a normal size clutch for my female. Actually looking at the picture earlier in the thread of the eggs in the floating ring there appears to be ~25 there.

I suppose this latest spawn could have been the young female, who had been injured in what seemed a breeding attempt some time ago, but she has grown a lot and is almost the size of the others. I'd expect her to have smaller clutches as she isn't fully grown yet.