Help! L128 blue Phantoms dying

[Redcrayon]

Hey guys there is alot so please bare with me and please help. Today I lost 2 of my 5 blue phantoms. They are all 3-4 inch's. I have had them for 2 weeks. They are in a 30 gallon long with a 50 gallon HOB aqua clear filter, heated too 80 degrees. I have a powerhead / wavemaker for airation. The 2 that died today have nothing wrong with them visually, color was normal, they weren't panting or breathing fast, they didn't seem lethargic. My parimiters have constantly been in check 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate. This is where it gets tricky and long, before this batch I previously had another 4 blue phantoms, and a large piece of driftwood. The drift wood noticiably rotted, and smelled and I'm convinced had bacteria even though I soaked it for weeks. My fish died extremely fast as soon as I noticed the rotting smell. I'm convinced the fish had velvet cause they were covered in a gold dust. I treated the tank with a copper medicine but it seemed like it was too late. I got a refund on the malasiayn drift wood and got a new peice. This one I had boiled and soaked. I cleaned all the filter media and the entire tank. I than got this second batch of 5 l128. I notice this wood starting to smell too so quickly removed it and treated the tank again with the copper medicine. The fish were doing fine for the last 4 days, today was the only indication something was wrong. Keep in mind I do a 5 gallon water change everyday to suck out there poop. I have tried feeding them 3 kinds of algea food and zucchini. They just recently took to the zucchini but I feared they weren't eating up until 2 days ago when I saw bite marks in the zucchini. I'm at a loss right now, I don't know why they are dying or how they can be getting sick when the perimiters are prestine and the tank is treated.. the only thing I have recently stumbled upon is the fact that this tank used to house a red ear slider turtle in the past. I obviously cleaned the tank before use but I read toxins could have maybe stored in the silicone. Please help because I fear tommorow when I turn the lights on I'm gonna find more dead fish.

[MarcW]

Hi Redcrayon, welcome to Planet Catfish!

When I first started keeping

L128

I encountered similar problems, 2-8 weeks after buying new fish they would seem fine them mysteriously die, see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32707&p=217985#p217985

If you are worried about the wood, I would remove it altogether, and see how you get on, but ensure there are places for the fish to hide so they can feel comfortable, some caves would be a good idea, or piles of rocks with gaps for them to hide in, there is a picture of my blue phantom tank here to give you some ideas: viewtopic.php?t=44245

I am concerned that 4 days before the fish were introduced you totally cleaned the tank and your filter media, this could have caused a die off in the bacteria which support the nitrogen cycle and caused a build up of ammonia in your tank, that could be causing the fish to suffer and cause issues.

Are you able to do a water test now? You may find a few larger water changes may improve things in the short term, as you have a 30G tank, try increasing the water changes to 10 or 15G to see if that improves things.

Also, what is the water like you are putting in the tank? I guess it is tap water, are you de-chlorinating it or adding any chemicals or treatments?

Good luck.

[MarcW]

Just to add on the food, I think that's what contributed to some of mine not lasting long originally, I think they could have been fresh imports which I was struggling to get eating.

When new to the tank I have found firmer foods to be better as you can leave them in for 2-3 days without worrying about them fouling the water, this gives the fish a chance to discover the food, things like sweet potato and carrot can be good for this. Alternatively swap out the zucchini every 10-12 hours, and put a fresh piece in the same spot, again, so they become familiar with it and realise it is food.

Do you have access to any of the Repashy gel foods? They are the staple for my L128 now, especially Fruut Luups, Bottom Scratcher and Soilent Green, I found them good to condition the fish once they were established and eating well.

[Redcrayon]

So a couple of things. My cycle is still fine I have checked daily. Ammonia and nitrite sit at 0. ( I washed the media in another tanks siphoned water) as for repashy foods I was going to order some so now that I got confirmation I will definitely do that. They were taking to the zucchini finally and i have been changing it out after about 14 hours, but they totally ignore both kinds of the Hikari sinking discs and the omega one plus pellets with spirulina. They have 3 caves in atm and a couple of rocks, the woods been out for almost a week and I should be getting more from drfostersandsmiths in the next day or so. The water I add is tap and I do use dechlorinator. I will try both sweet potato and carrot tonight! Should they be blanched? Or just rinsed and peeled? Also I will go check out that thread now. Thankyou! Anymore advice would be great, and I did in fact lose a total of 2. The remaining 3 look healthy,full bellies, the right color, breathing fine, and responding to me moving to the tank ie.. not lethargic

[Redcrayon]

Follow up question. Is the slight gold/yellow on the belly of your dead fish normal on a live l128? Because one of min has very similar coloration on his belly, minus the sore that yours had had

[MarcW]

The sweet potato and carrot, personally I peel them and put them in raw weighed down with a 'screwcumber' a stainless steel spiral, you can use a stainless steel tea spoon, fork or similar. I believe they will last longer in the water before being removed if you don't blanch them first. I haven't had issues leaving them in for up to 48 hours.

There are a few opinions I've heard regarding the yellow colour on the belly. I have heard a suggestion that the yellow means it could be a female. It's also possible that it could be from slightly further up or down the river than your others, and therefore has a slightly different colouration. I'm sure there are other theories too!

I wouldn't be concerned by it, as it happens my female has a much yellower belly than the males in my group, but I don't think my group alone is enough to assume that all females have yellower bellies!

Sounds like they are doing ok for now, hopefully the issue is acclimatisation or issues getting them to feed as I think I experienced, then the rest of your group should hopefully be ok.

Good luck.

[Redcrayon]

I was actually just continuing to read your post about your fry. Congrats! That was my ideal goal but as this process has carried out so far I am alot less hopeful that it will happen, and I also think my tank might not be large enough for it to happen. Any insight on how ya made the slatecaves?

[Redcrayon]

Also the repashy food has been ordered and my new Malaysian drift wood will be here tommorow. I did however notice a small sore developing on the top fin of the one female. It's a very faint pink color, I put some aquarium salt in, is there anything else I should do?

[MarcW]

Thank you, I've had three spawns but only 6 fry have survived they are doing well and the biggest is about 3 inches long now!

I had the same issues, trying to build up a group with unexplained deaths in the newer fish, eventually I gave up for a year or two and just left them to it. Then we moved house and I set up a new tank for them and started feeding them up and it seemed to work! I was never sure I had a female until there were eggs!

I made my caves from slate I got from a garden centre, you can probably find it a Home Depot or Lowe's etc. In the landscaping section. Try to avoid any with rusty streaks, it's likely got a lot of iron deposits which could affect the water chemistry. I then split some chunks in half and used an angle grinder to hollow out the middle, then stick it back together with aquarium safe silicone. Some of the other caves were made from sheets of slate cut to size and stuck with silicone. A much easier way is to buy some dark porcelain tiles then cut to size and silicone together! Alternatively you could buy some ready made from clay.

The tank they bred in for me is a little over 50G in volume I have 4 adults, I would say so long as you have plenty of hiding places a 40 breeder would be a good starting point for a group of up to 4, any more than that would be pushing it. I do have a lot of filtration on my 50G tank, a Fluval fx5 and 2 sponge filters plus a couple power heads for current.

Regarding the pink sore, it would be great if you could try and get a picture?

I would avoid adding any further medication or salt, and do a 50% water change each day for the next couple days and see how it responds.

I'm no expert with diseases or medication but with a picture others may be able to help.

[Redcrayon]

Welp. I lost another 2 this morning... no signs of anything. And there were nibbles on the sweet potato. Guess it's time to call it quits. All my other tanks and other fish are fine. Guess the tank is cursed

[Jobro]

Sorry to hear about your L128 dying.

Never use medicine unless you need to. It harms more than it helps. Especially if the fish is newly imported. And never use medicine unless you are sure what disease it is.

You used copper medicine two times and your fish started dying shortly after. Two times the same...seems obvious what's the issue here. I don't know what other people say, but in germany it is reported often and commonly known that you should keep any cooper away from your plecos.

[Redcrayon]

I wish I knew that... The first time around the fish 100% had velvet and I was instructed by my local fish store to use that. after I lost the first fish of the second batch I admittingly got nervous and microdose the medicine since I have been doing daily water changes

[Redcrayon]

I also hadn't used medicine until fish started dying. And between batches I fully siphoned out the water and started over

[MarcW]

Sorry to hear about you losing two more fish.

It was a good sign (in my experience) that they were eating something.

Like Jobro, I avoid medications unless it is absolutely necessary, and I can be sure the correct medication is being used. Unfortunately many fish stores I have visited are all too happy to diagnose an illness without seeing the fish and only a few details, then send you away with a bottle of something to 'fix' it based on the medication label rather than actual knowledge of the fish/illness/medication.

Hopefully this experience hasn't put you off, L128 aren't the easiest fish to acclimate, but once they are settled in I have found them easy to care for.

[Redcrayon]

I'm just going to focus on my 3 other tanks. I currently only have the 1 other l128 and in all honesty I saw signs of velvet on it today, after I move I'll try again since I have all the equipment, this has just been a bit to hard of a hit financially and we'll emotionally, along with taking up way to much of my energy and my stress levels. I'll give it another go later in life and I will without a doubt get the fish from a different provider, and will house them in a different tank, this 30 long seems cursed.

[Fundulopanchax76]

I have 3 L 128 since end of march this year. For 8 months they grew 1,5 -2 cm. Since 2-3 weeks i stop noticing them eat. I worried, i changed a water 1/4 twice for a week, put a new water pump for better current and added second air stone for more oxygen, temperature 27 degree C. Now they are better, start eating again. I noticed they want big shade and low light, definetelly dont like strong light.

[MarcW]

It is difficult especially after investing so much time and money to try and build up a group.

For now with your remaining fish, I would follow some suggestions from the post above. Try and get some more current, that could be anything from an air stone, to a power head, or even additional filters, they certainly seem to like current and high dissolved oxygen levels. Make sure there are plenty of hiding places, and keep up the water changes, hopefully it will come around in a few weeks and can be the start of your new group once you move.

Good luck.

[Fundulopanchax76]

I think pump is necessary for them. When my pump is off they stay hidden, when i turn pump on and put food they appear from their hiding places.

[Redcrayon]

I mean, I have a wavemaker attached to a power head, and the hob filter pushes out a strong current by it's self. I only have there light on for like 6 hours a day. And I lost the last one this morning. Definitely velvet again he was covered in a gold dust. All my other tanks and fish are fine thankfully. But this is a scrapped project, thank you for the words of wisdom though everyone

[Fundulopanchax76]

Dont be very disapointed ! Give yourself some time then try again !

[Redcrayon]

I just don't get what I could have done differently. And it happened two times in a row which sucks. Especially if it WAS velvet. And the other guy said you shouldn't treat plecos with copper based medicine... what were my other options? I even did the lights out covering the tank treating with salt and raising the temp to try killing them off the first time before I got the meds

[Redcrayon]

I just don't get what I could have done differently. And it happened two times in a row which sucks. Especially if it WAS velvet. And the other guy said you shouldn't treat plecos with copper based medicine... what were my other options? I even did the lights out covering the tank treating with salt and raising the temp to try killing them off the first time before I got the meds