Time to Euthanize??

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cowboyish1
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Time to Euthanize??

Post by cowboyish1 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:48 pm

Hello all. I have been battling chronic fin rot with a lot of 3 corydoras similas. The problem affected only the 3 I recently purchased. All others have been unaffected. 2 of the 3 have died. The one remaining obviously has a strong will to survive, but she is down to just spikes for her pectoral fins; her dorsal fin is almost just a spike; her anal fins are all but gone; her tail is about half gone. It is not my water parameters, and I've tried all kinds of treatments/remedies from natural oils to very strong antibiotics/anti-fungals. Sometimes, the problem would begin to reverse itself, but within a week or two it would return. My sad question is this: is she suffering, and should I euthanize her =(( ? If yes, is the clove oil the best, most humane route to go?

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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by bekateen » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:14 am

Hi cowboyish1,

Sorry for the loss. I'm sure it's no fun for you, and especially not for the fish. As to your question, I can't tell you whether it is or is not time to euthanize, that decision is really up to you. Yes, I know lots of people use clove oil; there are other options (anesthetics) but they usually aren't available to the general public. Yes the fish probably is in pain; that much damage can't be comfortable. How long have the fish been like this?

Regards, Eric

cowboyish1
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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by cowboyish1 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:00 am

bekateen wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:14 am
Hi cowboyish1,

Sorry for the loss. I'm sure it's no fun for you, and especially not for the fish. As to your question, I can't tell you whether it is or is not time to euthanize, that decision is really up to you. Yes, I know lots of people use clove oil; there are other options (anesthetics) but they usually aren't available to the general public. Yes the fish probably is in pain; that much damage can't be comfortable. How long have the fish been like this?

Regards, Eric
We've been battling this for several months now. Sometimes, it will start to get better, but it always returns. This last time, I can't even seem to slow it down.

cowboyish1
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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by cowboyish1 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:11 pm

I know it's difficult to tell me what to do in this situation, but can anyone tell me what he/she would do under similar circumstances?

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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by fat meloe! » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:27 pm

Well, first I would try to figure out why the fin rot refuses to leave before any euthanasia happens. As an imaginary example, your fish may be unable to fight off the infection because its immune system is too weak. In that case, check the water parameters, feed it extra nutritious food, etc.

Also, I would be very very very careful not to euthanize the fish prematurely. Here is a semi related example:I once had a fancy goldfish which had an eye and much finnage eaten by the koi in its tank, possibly due to starvation. It lay on the bottom for several days, and some fish keepers may have thought the end was near. But it eventually began to eat, swim, and grow fins again, with no detectable disease, and it lived with the koi for about several months before dying of a mostly unrelated cause.

Now, the goldfish was only attacked once and it was not a chronic issue like yours, but it just shows that being careful is important.

PS: Do remember to consult plenty of people, especially experienced pet keepers.
If you have a pond or 1000 gallon aquarium, it is always a good idea to leave plenty of space so you can adopt tank-busting "donation" fish from others.

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bekateen
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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by bekateen » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:19 pm

fat meloe! wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:27 pm
PS: Do remember to consult plenty of people, especially experienced pet keepers.
fat meloe!,

I agree with you about the principle of not rushing to euthanasia. But to respond to your postscript, the OP has been asking about this problem for weeks or months. So there is no rush in this instance.

That said, @cowboyish1, I am confounded by the persistence of this problem without natural lethality. Although you reported the water parameters elsewhere and they seem normal, I can't escape the possibility that this problem reoccurs because of water issues.

In previous posts you reported performing routine small water changes and the advice was frequent big water changes. Have you been consistent with these and there still is no resolution? And have you isolated the fish into its own quarantine / hospital tank for better care with no improvement?

If the answer is yes to all these questions, and if other fish in the original tank are healthy but this one fish is still desperately sick, then I think I would probably euthanize the fish at this point.

It's not an easy decision, and I can't be certain I would, but you portray the fish to be suffering from a severe chronic disease. And based on that info, I would take the action.

Regards, Eric

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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by AZCatfish » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:44 pm

cowboyish1 wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:11 pm
I know it's difficult to tell me what to do in this situation, but can anyone tell me what he/she would do under similar circumstances?
Cowboyish,

If you read this thread, I proposed a possible remedy to you for your fin rot problem:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44893

If you feel that clove oil euthanization is necessary I would advise you to first make a practice "test batch." Its a horrible thing to euthanize a pet, and even more horrible if you botch it. So make a test batch and discard it. That way you will know how to do it if and when the time comes.

Clove oil is immiscible in water. In other words, they do not mix. The clove oil will rapidly separate out of the water leaving the solution ineffective for proper euthanization. To get them to mix together and attain a homogeneous emulsion, you need an emulsifier. A small dollop of mayonnaise has natural emulsifiers in it that will allow the clove oil to mix with the water.

Now don't take my word for it. Do the experiment for yourself. Take a shot glass of aquarium water. Put a drop of clove oil in it. See how it won't mix? Now add a little glob of mayo, about the size of a pea. Stir it up. The clove oil will disperse into the water. This is how you get a homogeneous emulsion of clove oil & water that will be effective if you need to put down a fish as a last resort.

One drop of clove oil is fine for this little experiment, but you will need much more to actually euthanize a fish. Do some research.

cowboyish1
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Re: Time to Euthanize??

Post by cowboyish1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:32 pm

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. To answer some of your questions:

Yes to frequent larger water changes
Yes, to isolation
Yes, to good diet

I, too, keep thinking it must be something wrong with the water. I suppose it could be something outside of the typical water parameters, say for instance, some strange bacteria in the source water??? I'm stumped. I'm going to try a new antibiotic/anti-fungal (kanaplex) before making my final decision. I just feel so bad for the little girl, and I hope she is not in pain. Please send positive vibes her way.

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