Lophiobagrus brevispinis Breeding tank.

[CatWhat, posts: 80]

Here are a couple of pics of the new arrivals, well some of them anyway. I'm sure the others are hiding under their rock. I'll try to get some more as time goes on.

[MatsP]

They look very cute!

--
Mats

[dw1305, posts: 332]

Hi all,

if the risk of softening the water is minimal, it's still not a good idea, because the wood will leach organic compounds in the water and no Rift fish will be happy with those, regardless of changes to pH or hardiness ....my experiences with tanganyikans are that even if they're not harmed by it, they still do better if you avoid wood altogether.

I'm not advocating putting wood into tanks for L. Tanganyika fish, but if it was a case of not having anything suitable to act as cover, cave or hiding place for a benthic fish, I would have absolutely no problem with putting wood in until I could find a more biotope appropriate material for caves and over-hangs.

In this case you can regard coconut shell itself as totally inert, it is made of "wood", but it is so hard and lack in soluble compounds that this is really irrelevant. You can thing of it like the difference between a clay and its fired form as a ceramic.

In this analogy coconut shell = pottery.

Why I agree with your statement, it will obviously depend on the initial alkalinity of the water, which in this case, we do not know.

In terms of water chemistry Lake Tanganyika is a pretty strange, and if the water was low enough in proton (H+ ion) acceptors for the addition of the weak acids (H+ ion donors) (from wood) to make any difference, I would suggest that the water is already unsuitable.

These are the lake chemistry figures (from Brichard's "Fishes of Lake Tanganyika"):
Na2CO3 125
KCl 59
KNO3 0.5
Li2CO3 4
CaCO3 30
MgCO3 144
Al2(SO4)3.18H2O 5
K2SO4 4
Na2SO4 1
FeCl3.6 H2O 0.5
Na3PO4.H2O 0.4
Na2SiO3 13.5

Which you could loosely replicate with a ratio of: 4(NaHCO3):2(KCl):4(MgCO3):1(MgCO3+CaCO3)

cheers Darrel

[sidguppy, posts: 3827]

Grats on the fry!
they're feeding well by the look on them

you can start trying cyclops (from the freeze), just mix it in with the BBS

in my experience completely switching between foods doesn't work well, but you can get them used to other food by mixing it in and gradually change the proportions over some time.

it's advisable at this size to keep BBS on as at least a part of the diet.

but you can add cyclops, cyclopeeze, finely crumbled flake etc in small proportions

the most important thing now is waterquality.

[racoll, posts: 4473]

Why I agree with your statement, it will obviously depend on the initial alkalinity of the water, which in this case, we do not know.

In terms of water chemistry Lake Tanganyika is a pretty strange, and if the water was low enough in proton (H+ ion) acceptors for the addition of the weak acids (H+ ion donors) (from wood) to make any difference, I would suggest that the water is already unsuitable.

I didn't make this clear. I meant the OP's aquarium water, rather than that of Lake Tanganyika.

[CatWhat, posts: 80]

I have to say I do not have any experience with cyclops or know anything about starting a culture or what not, could anyone help with that? I'll have to take a look around to the LFS's has I'm not sure of the cyclops. I might be able to find the freeze dried/frozen.
I am doing daily water changes while they are in the smaller rearing tank. After a couple of weeks I'm going to transfer them to a larger one. Thank you for the help.

[dw1305, posts: 332]

Hi all,

I meant the OP's aquarium water, rather than that of Lake Tanganyika

Point taken, but I think we are talking at cross-purposes. My point was that if the small volume of organic acids from the addition of wood is enough to overwhelm the carbonate buffering and alkalinity of the OP's water, the water is already unsuitable. As the OP had obtained Lophiobagrus brevispinis, with the aim of breeding them, I assumed that they were happy with the suitability of their water for these fish, and had some idea of its parameters. The other point is that Lake Tanganyika's water is pretty strange, and for example whilst I have something close to Lake Malawi come out of the tap (but a bit colder), not many people will have anything close to Lake Tanganyika (possibly unless they live in N. Island New Zealand?)

Coconuts
The coconuts are a slightly different argument, in this case they obviously work, and whilst it is a good idea to keep wood out of tanks for fish from Lake Tanganyika, (for all the reasons stated) you don't need to regard coconuts as wood, they are entirely insoluble and inert.

Cyclops

I have to say I do not have any experience with cyclops or know anything about starting a culture or what not, could anyone help with that? I'll have to take a look around to the LFS's has I'm not sure of the cyclops.

You can culture Cyclops, and other copepods, in a similar manner to Daphnia, but they are much less productive. Cyclops are usually preferred to Daphnia as a food source as they contain much higher levels of carotenoid pigments (these are the pigments that make Shrimp, Salmon, flamingoes etc. pink), proteins, lipids and HUFA.

If you find a source of Copepods, you can add them, some live plants (I use Ceratophyllum normally) and organic matter (filter mulm is ideal) to Daphnia culture, and then allow the pH to decline naturally. The Daphnia production will fall off, but a steady stream of Copepods and Ostracods should be available. For a fish like Lophiobagrus, I would assume you would really want a benthic species of Copepod, although they may eat Ostracods. Most literature suggests that fish aren't keen on Ostracods, but that certainly hasn't been my experience.

I got my original Daphnia/Ostracod/Copepod culture from my garden pond, but they may be available commercially.

An easier option is to feed your Daphnia with Astaxanthin powder (a carotenoid pigment from the Green Alga, Haematococcus pluvialis), gram flour, yeast and paprika, this makes them very red in colour and at least gives the illusion that they are of higher nutritional value.

I culture/have cultured all sorts of things, but the ones that I would regard as both easy and productive, in ascending size order, are Walter or Banana worms, Micro worms, Grindal worms, Daphnia and Red Worms. I also have semi-domesticated sources for Rotifers, Mosquito larvae (including Chironomids), Baetid May-fly larvae and Asellus.

If you have more time (or a fish house) BBS become a viable option.

If you interested in growing your own fish food, I would strongly recommend Mike Hellweg's book, "Culturing Live Foods".

cheers Darrel

[Taratron, posts: 742]

I'd just like to add that Mike Hellweg is an awesome guy; he was a speaker for us at a killifish convention and he's rather down to earth and humble, even when signing books.

Is there any good way to sex L brevispinis other than just waiting for the fry to show up? Will they use bamboo caves if one end is closed?

[CatWhat, posts: 80]

The males have a much wider head, easy to see when viewed from above. I think they would breed in any type of cave really, I have had mine breed under dift wood even.They will even make their own caves by digging under rocks, wood etc.. I have the best luck with PVC pipes with ends caps.

[Taratron, posts: 742]

What's the best way to determine if they are breeding? I don't want to tear the tank apart or dig through the caves but I also don't want to find some dead ones if I don't keep on top of them!

[Taratron, posts: 742]

So far so good with mine, but I never see them out and around lest it's feeding time. Would tossing in some dither fish or small shellies help?

[Barbie]

I loved my pair of these guys. They definitely were hell on the spares in the pairing process, but they seem to be safe to call a "pair" if they share a cave for even a day. I really hadn't planned to spawn them (they were still in quarantine) and I noticed the male fanning the eggs like a pleco so I was hooked. I didn't feed them anything special, literally sinking wafers and frozen foods and NLS grow pellets with no losses. I really don't understand why they aren't more popular! I never removed the fry from the parent tank. I had no predation. I also had driftwood in the tank and a few growing out L114, also, hehe.

Please let me know when you get some fry, I will happily buy or trade you out of some. I was devastated when a heater stuck on and roasted my tank full of them!

Barbie

[Taratron, posts: 742]

They are cool little cats but I never see them out and around. I wonder if some small tetras or shellies (I have some melagris fry) would bring them out more?

[CatWhat, posts: 80]

Mine to come out a bit when there isn't any food there but not much. Not sure if dithers will bring them out during the day, I know they will eat them during the night lol. I had fostered four Florida Flagfish for someone and after about 2 weeks all four were gone. I would find their chewed up bodies stuck to the filter intake and one particular one in one of the males caves.

[Taratron, posts: 742]

Still freaking nothing. I wonder if I have only one gender. Barely see but two every night, and if I take apart the caves, as I did a few weeks ago, a few dart out and hide again. They've been eating live black worms and NLS pellets, as well as cherry shrimp culls. What else do I need to do here?

[CatWhat, posts: 80]

If you are unsure of the sex ratios you have. Take out all the decor in the tank and either catch them and place them in a bowl to be viewed from above or perhaps you can get a good look at their heads through the glass. They are easy to sex, once you get a male and female next to each other.
I have had my best luck with breeding when I have the PVC pipes ( with end caps ) in the tank, they seem to prefer them to caves made from rocks and wood for breeding in.

[Taratron, posts: 742]

I'll do that and post pics here. What size PVC pipes, length and width of opening?

Even have coconut halves in there. I never see any of them together. Heck, I never see any of them at all! I see my zebra plecos and L250 more than these fish! I see the banjo cats more.

[pleco_breeder, posts: 803]

L250??? that's got to be a typo...

Larry

[Taratron, posts: 742]

Oops, yes it is. Nah, Larry, I been holding out on you!

L260. I seriously see them more than these brevis.

[Taratron, posts: 742]

Spotty pics but the best I can do.

http://imgur.com/a/2rSUC