Featherfin Squeaker not doing so well.

[BADGUYSKI]

Hi all,
My Synodontis eupterus stopped his predatory like swimming around the tank about 2 weeks ago, I seen his belly was always big so I just thought he is getting enough to eat and wasn't hungry.
Well about 4 days ago I checked the water as he was still not being himself (he is with a gentle Oscar and even tamer Jack Dempsy)....the ph was 6....I had a fit as my tank just seems perfect in perpetuity...wrong.
I did a 1/4 water change and the ph is back at 6.8.
Now my catty has been on the bottom of the tank and wont move, other than his eyes darting normally and his gills going...he looks dead, also he was pooping pure white bands (I always thought they pooped black). Is he in some kind of hibernation as he adjusts or am I doomed.
He was always a very very hardy happy fish I would say he is about 4-5 years old....Any ideas? Edit: He is always upside down on the bottom of the tank as well 8(

[Birger]

Oscars and jack dempsys are not tank mates for a Synodontis nigriventris. A cichlid acts like a cichlid . I can not say what is wrong with your fish , except for the fact they are not predatory at all and do better in groups.

[Birger]

I apologize for my bad attitude above but these are my favourite fish.

Birger

[BADGUYSKI]

Mine as well...Most people I know in the Cichlid forums have them as well...they are perfect tankmates and never have an issue...These guys have been together for over 4 years. I just checked him and he does seem a little better.

[N0body Of The Goat]

Is this catfish a Featherfin (Synodontis eupterus) or an Upside Down (S. nigriventris)?
How long is it, excluding the tail fin (SL measurement)?

I'd expect a ~7cm SL adult Syndontis nigriventris to still be considered lunch by an adult ~34cm SL Oscar (should be ~30cm SL by ~2 years), while an adult ~16cm SL eupterus would be safer from outright predation (but may still get a lot of grief from cichlids, depending upon the tank dimensions, I would want at least a 180x60x60cm to put an Oscar in any type of community).

[Viktor Jarikov]

What's ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate measured by a test tube kit in ppm?

Temperature?

Water hardness?

Are the temp and pH stable, no quick wild swings?

Is aeration plentiful?

What's the diet?

Water change schedule?

Any recent changes to the tank?

Pictures always help of the tank and the fish.

[BADGUYSKI]

He/She has done a full 180, still a little weak but it's like a miracle...lol The Jack Dempsy was nudging catty up to the top of the tank....like it was his baby for cripes sake...now he wont leave Catty's side....to cool. I got lax and didn't check the water as I usually do...all test are perfect now, I do a bi weekly water change..maybe 1/5 of the tank....have no idea why the sudden drop to 6ph...this tank is always perfect...strange

Thanks all....this fish was literally upside down on the back bottom of the tank not moving for 3 days...wow. My tank is happy again

[BADGUYSKI]

Temp always 78...keeps it calm All fish are about 4 years old and arrived the same day. Tank is 70 gallons with a 150 gallon canister filter, getting a 150 this xmas and another 150 canister for the wasteful oscars....they are the happiest fish ever...again

[BADGUYSKI]

I apologize for my bad attitude above but these are my favourite fish.

Birger

I know where you got your feelings for this species...Catty is my favorite fish in the tank. I have family in St Johns and most work at the Alberta oil sands....Wakeham is their name.

[BADGUYSKI]

Is this catfish a Featherfin (Synodontis eupterus) or an Upside Down (S. nigriventris)?
How long is it, excluding the tail fin (SL measurement)?

I'd expect a ~7cm SL adult Syndontis nigriventris to still be considered lunch by an adult ~34cm SL Oscar (should be ~30cm SL by ~2 years), while an adult ~16cm SL eupterus would be safer from outright predation (but may still get a lot of grief from cichlids, depending upon the tank dimensions, I would want at least a 180x60x60cm to put an Oscar in any type of community).

Sorry good eye...it is eupterus, I quickly copied pasted the wrong one.

[Viktor Jarikov]

The eupterus in the videos is not doing so well. Compared to what you said it had been doing before, it's a good sign but overall, the fish is struggling, looks and moves sickly.

I guess the reason might be the pH change but I don't quite get it. It would have to occur relatively quickly to sicken the fish and bring it to a brink of death. Why did it happen in the first place? And why did it happen quickly?

There could be other reasons. Seems like you don't measure ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate because you avoid providing the numbers after having been asked directly. We've seen many people state "the tests are perfect" while they had little or even no grounds for stating so...

But it's your tank and your call, needless to say.

[BADGUYSKI]

I did all the tests in my kit and they are where they are supposed to be on the charts, my featherfin normally is a brazen fellow...going around the tank like a predator...he stopped doing that a week or 2 ago but still looked as healthy and bright as usual just not the normal pain in the butt food stealer he is. I decided to check the water and lo and behold it was 6ph...everything else was on spot...no ammonia at all. The water was a little tannin gold looking as well. I just found out today that my hose was pinched and was getting like 1/4 the flow it should...again I have been going thru tanks since i'm 12 (52 now) and my fish go for decades. It was my fault not checking the water as soon as he changed the way he has been for 4 years....dumb move....He is even better now and even stole some food like i'm used to. He's not out of the woods yet but i'm happy to see his improvement. Fingers crossed. And thank you

[Viktor Jarikov]

I am happy that I was wrong and that you do measure your water with the API test kit. I use the same kit.

If your filtering capacity was 1/4 of the usual for some time (two weeks?), it is most likely that the water turned toxic due to either ammonia or nitrite or both. Also dissolved oxygen levels must have dropped because of much reduced stirring. This in turn would have caused a significant die off of beneficial bacteria in your canister filter as these rely most heavily on oxygen levels in the water to live and function.

Thus, I suspect your tank crashed, became uncycled, and that was behind the problems, not the pH change. A gradual change of pH from 6.8 to 6.0 would not have such an effect at all. Such a change should be rather harmless. Even if it happen quicker, say over a couple of days or even a day, I'd not expect it would sicken the eupterus like that.

BTW, pH drop can be associated with an accumulation of detritus - the slowly rotting organic matter produces acids and acidifies the water.

I do understand you are stating that at the end of the 2-week period when you tested the water the ammonia was zero. This doesn't fit the hypothetical scenario I am proposing. Perhaps it was the nitrite or your test has expired or had not been stored properly. Or the tank started to recover because you fed less than usual for 2 weeks. Or there were other complicating factors, such as high nitrates, or wrong hardness, salinity, etc.

It also is the best to use your tap water or other known ammonia-free water as a reference and not the paper reference, especially when trying to discern small amounts like 0.25 ppm.

There could be other common causes, such as forgetting to use water conditioner during a water change and thus wiping out some beneficial bacteria, or completely unpredictable causes such as a water main break nearby that is often followed by a water company using extra chlorine. But in all likelihood, having a pinched hose is too much of a simple coincidence. It stands to reason it must be the cause behind your trouble.

To reduce my guessing, providing concrete numbers on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate would be helpful from the start. I don't mean to come off will ward and get things my way. I just like to help the best I can as quickly as I can and use my time efficiently too.

In general, when health problems arise, I suggest following these questionnaires to help those who will try and help you:

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... ng.210102/

or at least this curtailed version:

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... se.671346/

In case I managed to be obnoxious and off-putting, I apologize. Only trying to help here in my clumsy ways.

The tank looks good to me, BTW. It appears to have plentiful aeration too which is probably what saved all your fish. If your aeration didn't have such a good margin of safety, I suspect you'd lose all the fish with 1/4 filtration capacity for 2 weeks.

[BADGUYSKI]

lol, not obnoxious or off-putting...I was in a tizzy, and i'm very cocky with how perfect my tank is, sadly to the point of neglecting it this month.
I am a very light feeder and my Jack and Catty get most of the food from the bottom that my messy Oscar's make, I clean half the tank bottom each time and probably have my original colonies from my old tanks....Ammonia has never been a problem as I have a colony in all three sections of my filter and lightly rinse only one per month, plus I have way more filtration than is needed. 4 decades of Oscars taught me that...lol
I peeked in this morning and he appears even better today but I don't turn my light on till the afternoon when everybody gets home for a couple hours....I will keep you updated.
Thanks so much for your help and concern...I love this site