Need help saving abused emaciated 15 yr old iridescent shark catfish!!! HELP!

[mostlyfairy]

Well, if the chances are low that he was sold to her as a south american catfish, then I have to revisit if we have properly identified him. The only info I have is that she says he is a South American Catfish, she acquired over 15 years ago. She used to tease her son about him and tell her son he was "the shark". The only care she said he needed was "ammonia drops" added to his water but I could get around that by adding some of his old water to his new water. He came with top fin tropical flakes for food. That's the extent of what she has given us. His correct identification remains of high concern to me. Do you feel confident from looking at him, his appearance, that he matches an iridescent shark fish who has just been severely growth stunted and abused? If you feel its a good match, I can have confidence that she just was confused.

I'm very limited in my existing aquarium knowledge and my spending ability but what I have working in my favor is I am smart and can learn fast (I have a human health sciences graduate level education). And I love animals enough to find a way to get the money if their life depends upon it. I'm going to really try my best to save his life and give him peace in his last years.

I hooked up the bubbler, took some pix, will re-update late tonight or early tomorrow morning after successful start of a decent fluval canister filter. Thank you so much for the guidance! It is extremely valuable as I do not know much of what I'm doing.

[Birger]

mostlyfairy wrote:
would you add some of the fluval biological media from my red eared slider's active filter into the Nacho's new filter? Would you take that infectious disease risk to get the benefits of an established aquarium cycle and the needed good bactieria? Or would you give more weight to the seriousness of Nacho's poor health (immunocompromised state) and the fact that he is a walking target for any pathogen right now?


I would say the benefits would outweigh the risks here, but I understand your concern. Interested what others think about this.

I agree the benefits far outweigh the risk...as long as the environment the media comes from has is a healthy environment.

Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Great, thank you! Its crystal clear in there all the time, the turtle is healthy, and lush green algea wants to grow under her reptiglo lamp on her sunbathing platform, which all the turtle people told me is an excellent sign. 7 inch turtle in a 70 gallon indoor container (farmers feeding/watering plastic container). There is no chemical testing parameters of her water done- it is not an environment shared with any fish.

[racoll]

The only care she said he needed was "ammonia drops" added to his water but I could get around that by adding some of his old water to his new water.

Ammonia is highly toxic to fish. Why she would do that is beyond me, but this explains how he ended up in the bad shape that he's in!

Do you feel confident from looking at him, his appearance, that he matches an iridescent shark fish who has just been severely growth stunted and abused? If you feel its a good match, I can have confidence that she just was confused.

Yes, it's definitely an iridescent shark catfish.

[mostlyfairy]

okay. outstanding. I believe you. Now we have an ID.

But now I am so sad-he is so tiny. My God, he should be four feet. In too small an environment, they often die around 10 inches from organ failure according to one person on youtube. How sad. Could she really have been torturing him with ammonia? Could she have meant drops to counteract ammonia that he excretes?

Fifteen years of this. I am crying.
I believe he is going to live at least to enjoy some time the way his life should have been. The way I found him it was like I was supposed to find him. I am just going to try my best for him.

[Birger]

Sounds like luckily she may have been using conditioner drops that would have helped with waste and chlorine somewhat.

That could be a whole other kind of study to figure out the whys and hows of what has been done to this fish...you have to realize it could live one week...it could live another ten years or more.
I consider it lucky now that you are trying to help this fish and moving forward is all you need concern yourself with to make the fish as comfortable as possible...you are doing great!!

Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Yes, true. I am glad to know racoll feels clear this is what he is. Its very hard for me to tell one fish from another. Having a clear ID is very important for care.

Thank you for the vote of confidence. It would be nice if he lived for a year and two and could enjoy a comfortable pampered existence for once. If he lives 10 years I'll be fine with that. I have all kinds of animals here that cruel people have turned their backs on. I created a whole family out of them

[mostlyfairy]

The pet store has the Fluval 206 filter. In it I will put a regular carbon bag (not the zeo carb), a compartment for bio max rings (for beneficial bacteria, this is where the turtle's well established bio max media will be mixed with Nacho's new bio max filter media) and there is a third compartment available if needed (some options: Fluval makes Fluval Clearmax Phosphate Remover, Fluval Peat Granules, Fluval Ammonia Remover). I'm thinking all the options in parenthesis are for specialty situations and I can just leave the third chamber blank or fill it with pre-filter media. Please let me know if you think I should buy any of the options in parenthesis- if they would be of value to Nacho in his bad situation.... so much to know.

[racoll]

I'm thinking all the options in parenthesis are for specialty situations and I can just leave the third chamber blank or fill it with pre-filter media.

Correct, they are for speciality situations. Don't leave it empty though. You should just add more of the 'Biomax' filter media that is in the main compartment. This is the good stuff, where the bacteria live, and the more the better.

[mostlyfairy]

Ok, sounds like a plan, thank you racoll!

[mostlyfairy]

I feel a great sense of relief. Nacho now has a functioning fluval filter operational in his current temporary home (a plastic container holding about 20 gallons of water- stability is the focus now, hopefully one day soon he will be able to move to a 40 gallon aquarium, I almost bought it last night). The 206 filter is holding carbon and a generous amount of both new bio max filter medium and mature bacteria seeded bio max filter medium from my red eared slider's fluval FX5 filter.

Now it is a wait and see game I guess.

Yesterday I set up his bubbler as soon as I was told it did not absolutely need the ball valve. He was SO HAPPY to see the bubbles. I'm not sure if he has ever had such a thing in his 15 years. He plays in them, swims in them, lets the bubbles carry him up and then goes back down to do it again He is overjoyed right now I think.

The current the 206 creates in the small 20 gallons is not too much for him- I am watching to see if it tires him. He seems to enjoy it and I felt it with my hand-it is mild. I have a large sponge ready to go over and dampen the outflow valve if it appears it tires him and he doesn't like the current after awhile.

This would be his fourth day with me and his eyes appear yet better again today-less swollen. The first day I found him suffering in that bucket the lenses were so edematous they would billow in and out with his body motion as he swam. All of that is gone now-their swelling keeps decreasing. He may need to see the vet once firmly stabilized as I was reading about pop-eye (if that's what it is) and he likely has a bacterial component.

I still have 24 hours to go of holding feedings before I am supposed to attempt giving him a night crawler. That is good- it will give him today to adapt to his new filter. He is passing waste. I took a picture of some this morning- I have seen clear to white long strings in the tank but this morning I also something more brown looking- I photographed it in case its important and tells anything key about his health status.

His behavior right now is promising-active, playful, curious It is very rewarding to see him joyfully playing in the bubbles.

I love Fluval products. They are well engineered. The other filters they sell in pet stores are complete garbage and a joke-its absolutely worth it to spend the money and get a good Fluval filter.

I have put my life on hold for 2-3 days struggling to learn what he is, how to stabilize him and get him into what I feel is a safe set up. Today I feel like we have reached an appropriate level of safety so that this is no longer at dire emergency level- with that filter in place he now has a fighting chance to survive. I will just have to wait and continue to do my best.

I will post pictures and an update this evening. I am trying to use my better camera to photograph him so you can see his eyes in better detail, the one I use to photograph my jewelry (I am a jewelry artisan). But capturing a moving subject under water is tricky. Its a pretty good SLR digital camera with lots of settings so maybe eventually I can get it.

Thank you so much Racoll, Birger and everyone else who has helped me stabilize him. I can finally exhale now. An endangered fish being kept in only a container of water is a real emergency. Now he has a decent set up-maybe he can survive. Time to work really hard and try to earn back all the money I just spent!

[NCE12940]

Kudos for working so hard to give this guy a chance for a *real* life

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you so much NCE

well, I am doing my homework, using a Duke University site to learn about the Nitrogen cycle and New tank syndrome. I'm ready to order testing supplies, just to follow the evolution and completion of the first cycle so I learn about it. It seems like the liquid kits are more reliable than the little test strips which I'm reading in Amazon reviews can have a large margin of error (?). I was thinking of getting API liquid kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate & pH. Does this sound reasonable? I figure I can get into GH and KH at a later time if needed, although I did just learn that our Tucson tap water hardness is 280 (very very hard). I don't plan on tinkering with the water by adding anything (unless of course something critical happens and I'm instructed to do so here). I just want to follow the changes in the water chemistry to develop my own knowledge level- it seems like the easiest way to learn quickly.

For others who may find themselves in a similar predicament to mine, here is where the Duke site starts, at the bottom there is always a link to take you to the next section-its excellent:
https://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/cycling.html

[racoll]

I was thinking of getting API liquid kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate & pH. Does this sound reasonable? I figure I can get into GH and KH at a later time if needed

I would get only the ammonia and nitrite kits (maybe nitrate also, so you get a fuller picture of how the tank is cycling). The others are not important.

[mostlyfairy]

Thanks racoll, I will just get those.

All is stable.

Racoll, did you see me post this video previously? You may not even need to see the video since you know fish so well- do you think Nacho could be what they call a short body paroon shark? Could this explain how he is 15 yrs old, only 6 inches long and still alive, not dead from organ failure?
https://youtu.be/oBOMYus0wQA

Here is the current set up, about 20 gallons in a 30 gallon plastic container. This container was found at the scene of the emergency where I discovered him on Thursday. I grabbed it as something to take him and put him in because I had nothing. He remains in it right now in the interest of stability. The band over the top is thick tape to help prevent the sides from bowing out from water weight:


This is mission control to help clue me in about the water as I learn. The temperature has been kept close to 80F all this time again because of stability- that is the temperature it comes out of our tap in Tucson AZ USA and likely the temperature his water was sitting at in the bucket outside for the four days he was abandoned before I discovered him:

the pH stays around 7.4 and that doesn't seem to be a concern to all of you who know better anyways. The seachem ammonia alert meter did turn light blue this evening indicating the first "alert" level of 0.05 ppm.

Is this tolerable for him and a good thing-signaling the natural and necessary beginning of the nitrogen cycle? When I see this low level of positive ammonia, should I do a 10% water change or do nothing?

He moved his bowels this morning and here are pictures in case it tells you fish experts about his health. I had a good laugh over the fact that my life has been reduced to posting pictures of fish poop online (and pretty soon I will be cutting worms in half too I'm sure)! To the left you can see it in the net and to the right you can see it in its natural state floating in water:


This afternoon actually was the 48 hr mark but I did not offer him a night crawler yet. First I wanted to tell you about the ammonia detector activating and ask about how to respond to that.

Can I begin to offer him one half of a giant night crawler (they are about 4 inches long) tomorrow?

I understand now about new aquarium syndrome and the nitrogen cycle. Thank you for having me get excess food out of the tank and hold his food. I understand now why the focus is on preventing too much ammonia production. I am worried about how starved he is and hope to be able to start feeding him now that he has good filtration that has been seeded with some nitrogen processing bacteria from a mature filter. The turtle's filter is huge with lots of media in it, so I can always add more if needed too.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you for all the help-you are helping to save his life. His behavior looks excellent- he appears extremely happy, active, swimming. The swelling in his eyes looks even better this evening than it did this morning. He must have been pickling in ammonia for four days in the bucket- my God, how is he even alive? Its crazy.

He moves too fast for my good camera to autofocus on his face yet, but I got his pretty fins:

[mostlyfairy]

Here is a video of Nacho swimming around:

https://youtu.be/nUUsiLrZpM0

[bekateen]

Keep up the good work!

By the way, I couldn't help but notice in the video that when Nacho talks, its lips aren't moving. How is that possible?

Cheers, Eric

[mostlyfairy]

LOL Eric! I guess he has ventriloquist abilities ;) Thank you for the encouragement.

I am probably going to attempt feeding him half a worm this evening and do a 10% water change as previously instructed.

Parts of his fins are now flaking off in the bottom of the tank. I assume this is the natural outcome of the horrific damage his body suffered from the four days last week trapped in the bucket, not from anything I am doing now. I have made sure he is not hitting anything when he swims in circles. It is like he is shedding necrotic fin skin. He lost a big chunk of his tail. Poor Nacho I still have great hope for him. His demeanor is bright, energetic, curious. I marvel that he is alive every time I look at him.

[racoll]

I am probably going to attempt feeding him half a worm this evening and do a 10% water change as previously instructed.

Good plan. Lets hope he eats it. Keep changing 10% of the water daily.

Racoll, did you see me post this video previously? You may not even need to see the video since you know fish so well- do you think Nacho could be what they call a short body paroon shark? Could this explain how he is 15 yrs old, only 6 inches long and still alive, not dead from organ failure?

He could be one of these selectively bred forms. Hard to say until he gets a bit healthier and we see some decent pictures of him from the side.

[mostlyfairy]

I offered him half a juicy living active night crawler. It was squirming around. He did not go for it. I left it in there for a couple of hours before fishing it out. He is not ready to eat yet. I also fished out his broken fin parts he is now shedding so they don't pollute the water chemistry.

I remember when I found Rainforest the turtle discarded in the park and took her in, she would not eat for the first week and a half I had her. I guess given what he has been through it is no wonder. He did eat his crappy cheapo tropical fish food flakes the first day I found him so he had a good meal after the trauma of being in the bucket.

He needs time. I will be patient as you have suggested previously and offer another worm in a couple of days. I will do the 10% water changes daily anyways as there is some ammonia being produced (his metabolism is still going, just less waste from not eating).

Thanks for checking in

[racoll]

That's a shame he didn't eat the worm. You could try some of the flake food he is already used to, but if he doesn't eat it within 20 mins, then remove all of it.

[mostlyfairy]

I did just that. Glad my brain's working OK. I put a big flake in there for him, let it float for about half an hour till it went down. he ignored it, I fished it out. He isn't hungry yet.

[mostlyfairy]

Good news The Nacho ate some fish flakes tonight, about a teaspoon of them! They are the old crappy expired top fin tropical fish flakes she left out in the heat that probably have no vitamins left in them. But at least he ate. If he loves those flakes, at least I will go buy him unexpired flakes of this same brand that have not been out in the heat and have vitamins in them.

I tried offering a 1 inch piece of worm when I saw him go for the flakes. I was so excited I picked up the worm with my bare hands, no gloves (that's a really big deal for me, trust me). But he didn't take the worm. He has never seen a worm in his existence I bet. Hopefully one day he will feel much better and his instincts will work again.

I will give him a day's rest from food and then offer a little more, go slow as directed to prevent too much ammonia. The seachem ammonia gauge continues to read between .02 and .05 ppm (between safe and alert). I'm waiting for nitrite and other testing supplies to arrive. I keep doing the 10% daily water changes.

His eyes look terrible today. And he lost a bunch of his tail fin yesterday. Its like his skin is now shedding from the damage it sustained last week in the bucket. His right eye bulges out, his left eye looks like it is burst open. AT first it seemed his eyes were healing because the swelling was decreasing but now they look awful again. There are traces of tiny bursts blood vessels around the rims of both eyes-you can kind of see the red in the picture. Its hard to look at. I'm used to being able to take an animal in pain to a vet and get it pain medicine, put a syringe in its mouth and give it something so that it doesn't hurt as much. Not as easy with a fish But his general demeanor continues to be very happy, alert and good. He is enjoying swimming in the current of his clean water. I'm glad he ate.

This picture is not good but I will still post it. He swims too fast. Each day I try to get a good one. One of these days I will get a really good shot of his face for you. His cat fish whiskers are all gone from his abuse. But I still like his face-its very cute. He comes up to say hi to me when I walk over to the water and talk to him.

[mostlyfairy]

Please, I need more guidance about Nacho. His behavior has changed for the worse. Let me explain.

His activity swimming has slowed down some. He also sometimes parks himself over the heater even though his water has stayed stable at 80F this whole time. He ate about 1 teaspoon of cheap tropical fish flakes on Tuesday June 9th.

I offered him a trace of food on Wednesday June 10 but he would not take it.

Today Thursday June 11th I fed him again and really observed him. I now understand he has lost much of his vision since he first came to live with me last week.

So I found him one week ago, Thursday June 4th when I signed a new apartment lease. He had been left to die in a 5 gallon bucket, cooking in his own waste. At first I thought his eyes were improving in their appearance. It seemed their swelling was decreasing. But then they began to shed dead damaged skin. The first few days I had him he could easily dart up to the surface to collect fish flakes as they floated. He could also get food off the bottom of his container when it sank. He could see where the food was.

Today he tried and missed the food 90% of the time. He was hungry but couldn't locate his food.

I don't know anything about fish. Nacho is showing decreased agility in his swimming and hovering around the heater even though his water temperature has not changed.

Using logic, I believe this could be one of two things:
1.) his metabolism is breaking down his own body for energy because he is not eating- the calories to keep moving around the tank and run his body have to come from somewhere.
or
2.) he is suffering ill effects from ammonia build up in his tank, or "new tank syndrome", what I was warned about. It is important to note that the seachem ammonia meter remains at a color between 0.02 and 0.05 ppm between safe and alert and I continue to do daily 10% water changes as instructed by racoll. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY SPIKE OR SUDDEN CHANGE ON THE AMMONIA METER-ITS COLOR HAS BEEN STABLE.

Using my best logic, I believe the problem is issue #1, not enough nutrition and furthermore I am pretty certain it is because Nacho is adjusting to new vision loss. His eyes have peeling skin on them now from necrotic tissue they are shedding due to last week's trauma in the bucket.

I have found a partial solution (hoping my thinking is correct), which is to put a larger than normal amount of flakes on the surface of the water a few different times a day. Flooding the surface of the water with flakes results in him successfully getting flakes in his mouth with several of his attempts to eat before they go to the bottom and he stops trying. The whole process takes 5 minutes at which point I must then spring into action with the net and promptly fish everything out before it can significantly pollute his water. It takes a lot of work but I seem to have been successful in fishing all the flakes out twice now. There also seems to be an increase in his energy and improvement in his demeanor after he eats (no hovering over the heater). I have closely watched his ammonia meter and it remains somewhere between .02ppm and .05ppm- with no changes despite this feeding method today. (water temp is 80F, water pH is 7.4). His nitrite and ammonia testing kits will arrive by mail tommorrow to give me more exact information (I guess? I will have to learn how they work).

QUESTIONS:
1.)DO YOU THINK HIS DECREASED ACTIVITY IS FROM NO NUTRITION OR PROBLEMS FROM AMMONIA TOXICITY?

2.)IS IT LIKELY THAT FISH CAN EVEN GET AMMONIA TOXICITY AT THESE VERY LOW LEVELS OR AM I REASONABLE IN THINKING THESE ARE SAFE RANGES AND TO CARRY ON AND WAIT FOR THE NORMAL NITROGEN CYCLE TO KICK IN?

3.)CAN I RAISE THE AQUARIUM TEMPERATURE TO 81F (FROM 80F) SINCE NACHO IS HOVERING OVER THE HEATER SHOWING ME HE IS COLD AND HIS BODY REQUIRES MORE HEAT?

4.)CAN I CONTINUE WITH THE FEEDING METHOD I HAVE DEVISED SINCE IT IS THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL MEANS THUS FAR TO GET FOOD INTO THE SEEMINGLY NOW BLIND NACHO AND I AM BEING METICULOUS ABOUT GETTING ALL FOOD OUT OF THE TANK QUICKLY AFTER FEEDS? I HONESTLY BELIEVE HE COULD STARVE AND DIE IF I DO NOT DO THIS.

5.) HOW MUCH FOOD DOES A FISH LIKE NACHO REQUIRE IN A DAY NORMALLY? (he is about 6 inches long, and at his fattest part which is his head area he is about 1.5 inches thick)?

I am trying my absolute best to google and use my brain and common sense but this is insanely difficult for someone who has never cared for even one healthy fish in their entire life. Please help me with any information you can share! thank you!

[racoll]

3.)CAN I RAISE THE AQUARIUM TEMPERATURE TO 81F (FROM 80F) SINCE NACHO IS HOVERING OVER THE HEATER SHOWING ME HE IS COLD AND HIS BODY REQUIRES MORE HEAT?

I think that rather than being cold, he's simply hiding next to the only item of cover in the tank. Most fish will tend to do this in a bare aquarium. Remember to keep the tank out of too much light. Have it shaded by a pot plant or something.

IS IT LIKELY THAT FISH CAN EVEN GET AMMONIA TOXICITY AT THESE VERY LOW LEVELS OR AM I REASONABLE IN THINKING THESE ARE SAFE RANGES AND TO CARRY ON AND WAIT FOR THE NORMAL NITROGEN CYCLE TO KICK IN?

Any amount of ammonia is poisonous. I would step up the water changes to ensure that there is no ammonia reading. Try 25% per day. The tank will take longer to cycle, but at least the fish will be alive. You are adding water conditioner to your water change water, right?

5.) HOW MUCH FOOD DOES A FISH LIKE NACHO REQUIRE IN A DAY NORMALLY? (he is about 6 inches long, and at his fattest part which is his head area he is about 1.5 inches thick)?

I would lay off the food for a few days, until his behaviour improves.

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you racoll. Okay, will do another 15% water change right now to bring today's total water change to 25% and see if that brings the seachem meter down to a lower reading. Yes, I am using water conditioner strictly according to the amount directed on bottle with every added water change (Aqueon brand water conditioner).

It is good to know maybe his behavior of hovering over the heater is not coldness. I don't have a potted plant but can create shade over that area with a blanket suspended from something. I will hold the feedings as you are directing and see. It sounds like you are thinking this is ammonia, NOT starvation. Thank you.

Plan:
1.)Daily 25% water changes for now with goal of 0 ammonia reading on seachem meter.
2.)Continue adding water conditioner with every water change.
3.)Hold feedings for a day or two while observing behavior and ammonia levels.
4.)leave temperature as is.
5.) create some shade around his container with suspended blanket.

[Birger]

I agree the fish is hiding near the only item in the tank as it may be feeling unsure as the eyes start to heal or in reaction to the cycle, you may wish to add some sort of cover when it is feeling this kind of mood, the plant idea is good, you could even cover half the container with a lid.(then you could still watch natcho)


I am a little different in that I would feed still once every day or two day the way you have been...more to keep it in the habit of eating... but that said It is natural for a fish to go through periods of not eating..and your tank can cycle in that time.

Your plan is sound!!

Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you so much for the added input Birger- I really appreciate it. Being a new fish mommy is challenging!

[mostlyfairy]

Just a quick update- I figured something important out. Fish flakes were getting trapped inside the Fluval 206 filter. I took it apart and looked inside yesterday on a hunch. I cleaned it out using only water in a bucket from Nacho's water change to avoid disrupting any good bacteria activity. I got all the flakes out. I also added more of the turtle's established filter media while I was in there.

My new plan will be to turn off the fluval filter prior to putting any fish flakes in his water, let him eat, use the net to get them all out within 5 minutes of his feeding, then turn the filter back on.

Hopefully this will be a way to keep the water ammonia level at close to zero, feed him and let a normal nitrogen cycle evolve. It is important to note that while I have no knowledge of fish-I do have good knowledge of biology. If we were to cut Nacho open I'm not sure if you would find a single area of adipose tissue- he is skin and bones. I understand that it is normal for fish to go through periods without eating, but this severely abused fish may have already endured close to the maximum of that period that his body can handle. The woman who had him may have "forgotten" to feed him for a long period prior to him being left in that bucket for four days. Its very hard to know how much abuse his body has suffered. Not feeding him remains to be an issue I worry about.

Finding that fish flakes were getting trapped in the filter gives me hope that it is reasonable to feed him and still keep the water ammonia levels low. Time will tell. The testing supplies got delayed in the mail and are arriving later today. Hopefully I can learn more from them.

Thank you again for all the help racoll and birger. I am very very grateful. His behavior is more active again. He likes having half his tank covered and shaded.

[bekateen]

Hi mostlyfairy,

Your idea to turn off the filter during feeding is a good one. I use that same technique when I add live tubifex worms to my tank; if I leave the filter on, many of the worms get sucked into the filter. Speaking from personal experience, I have just one warning (and this is obvious)... Make sure you restart the filter afterwards. In my experience, it's easy to get distracted (or called away by something else) and not restart the filter. LOL

Good luck, Eric