Lamontichthys llanero tank setup?

[nvcichlids, posts: 1558]

What would you recommend for tank size and setup for a group of 6-8 Lamontichthys llanero? I have a friend just down the road from me who got them in in error and am considering picking them up, but wasn't sure about them as there isn't much in the catelog. Do they prefer to stay on the bottom or in rock piles or wood? Do they bury themselves in sand? What should the diet consist of? I really like these guys and I have an impulse to just buy, but want to gather info first.

BTW, I am trying to only do Biotope tanks, so hopefully this will help as well.

[robb harriston, posts: 19]

from the sucker mouth,and the long filaments on the pectorals and caudal, and high dorsal fin; i dont think this could be a digger.the body just dosent seem powerful enough. a lot more delicate. like something in the whiptail pleco group.i would feed algae. spiulina wafers.and maybe bloodworms occassionally.let them suck on zucchini and or cucumber slices,or rolled spinach leaves rubber banded around a rock.for habitat i'd pick blackwater with a lower than average ph.factor.the ones in the p.c. pictures look amazing. you are right to want them, but a good aquarist is also right on researching something they are unsure about. they would be great in my blackwater tank. if you dont want them be sure to inbox me. check my no.1 aquarium.(smiles) as for the name, the llanero part probably has something to do with the spanish word llanos meaning flatlands or plains.these are the floodlands where blackwater pools and creeks occur.

[robb harriston, posts: 19]

oh yeah,tank size. by themselves or alone? for about 8-10 with a few angels and 6 or so cory cats. i'd say 90 gallon tank with as much underwater wood as you can purchase.by themselves,75 gallons is great and i wouldnt go much smaller than a 65 high, due to the long fin extensions. hope this helped. as you can see i love blackwater tanks.dont forget the peat.inbox me if you like.

[Shane]

You can find a full write up of my experience collecting them in Venezuela here:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... A%3A+Pt+II

You'll want a tank with a large footprint like a 40 gallon "breeder" type. Decor should be driftwood and the tank will need a good strong current. These fish need high oxygen levels and were always absent in low oxygen environments in the area.
They prefer more meaty foods (live and frozen), but fresh veggies should be made available as well. You can experiment with dry foods, but they will not take to them immediately.
I would warn that they are a very delicate fish and few people manage to keep them alive for an extended period of time. Although many popular aquarium fishes are found in their biotope, I would recommend a species only tank as they do not compete well for food. If you are desperate for tankmates I would recommend either Otocinclus or a school of Cory habrosus.
They are only found in whitewater rivers.
-Shane

[nvcichlids, posts: 1558]

here is the listing that my friend supposedly purchased them from the same person John does (not sure if that is true or not.. oh well.) the fish my friend has looks the same.. is this fish listed correctly in the auction?

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1290461405

-Nate

[Shane]

It appears to be correct to me.
-Shane

[zipper, posts: 54]

Hey nvcichlids,
did you manage to pick any of these up? and how are your friends' fish doing? Was shocked to find these in my neck of the woods and picked up a group. L. filamentosa has forever been on the top of my loricariid holy grail list and I figured I should try these to gain some experience just in case "the nicer cousin" pops up.

[macvsog23, posts: 209]

I have a group of 5 at around 5” to 6" in a 3 foot x 20" tank living quit happily substrate is 75% 25% small gravel.
A few rocks and some bog wood, fast water movement using an Eheim 2328, Eheim power head running a spray bar and a Eheim Aquaball with a venture. Lighting is 2 x 20 watt stranded lamps; I have 3 pots of assorted plants in the tank
5% water change with RO and HMA mixed to a TDS of around 200 every day, I aim to keep the Kh at round 4 to 6

I have had these fish for over a year now and had one attempted spawning.
The male spent several days cleaning a upright bog wood log and then they attempted to spawn as Sturisoma Sp do using the cleaned area, but I found no eggs the next day.

I have noticed distinct differences in the sexes the males are darker around the back of the head and have a “hook” on the dorsal fin also the ate far slimmer when viewed from above, females seem to be broader when viewed from above and deeper when viewed from the side. Neil at pier vent sexed the original 3 so they can be vented but alas not easy.

I intend to remove the 3 fish that have not spawned and just let the pair get on with it. I feed ground tetra prima and frozen brine shrimp, prawn chopped finely and flake.
I had no troubles getting them feeding and I also have six very small whiptails sharing right now with no feeding or territorial problems across species these fish are to be removed soon.

I find them a most interesting fish with no problems apart from first placing them in a black water tank and having to move them fast.
The group is composed of 3 brought from Pier Aquatics and 2 brought from a LFS.


They are active feeding and generally grubbing around all day lights present no problems and only when feeding have I seen them spooked in any way and this was just a jump and a skip spooked.
One thing I have noticed is that they have a distinct “pecking order” the dominate alpha male will rush at any fish who feeds before he can, a juicy lump of prawn is his believe me, and the other fish just get out of the way, it is a distinctive head butt not a little tap but a full rush and thump.
Growth was quite fast being around 2” in a year.

This behaviour I have put down to the small tank and expect it to stop when I have removed the other fish, it is only amongst the species ie not other fish and no damage or injuries have resulted

I have a group of 5 at around 5” to 6" in a 3 foot x 20" tank living quit happily substrate is 75% 25% small gravel.
A few rocks and some bog wood, fast water movement using an Eheim 2328, Eheim power head running a spray bar and a Eheim Aquaball with a venture. Lighting is 2 x 20 watt stranded lamps; I have 3 pots of assorted plants in the tank
5% water change with RO and HMA mixed to a TDS of around 200 every day, I aim to keep the Kh at round 4 to 6

I have had these fish for over a year now and had one attempted spawning.
The male spent several days cleaning a upright bog wood log and then they attempted to spawn as Sturisoma Sp do using the cleaned area, but I found no eggs the next day.

I have noticed distinct differences in the sexes the males are darker around the back of the head and have a “hook” on the dorsal fin also the ate far slimmer when viewed from above, females seem to be broader when viewed from above and deeper when viewed from the side. Neil at pier vent sexed the original 3 so they can be vented but alas not easy.

I intend to remove the 3 fish that have not spawned and just let the pair get on with it. I feed ground tetra prima and frozen brine shrimp, prawn chopped finely and flake.
I had no troubles getting them feeding and I also have six very small whiptails sharing right now with no feeding or territorial problems across species these fish are to be removed soon.

I find them a most interesting fish with no problems apart from first placing them in a black water tank and having to move them fast.
The group is composed of 3 brought from Pier Aquatics and 2 brought from a LFS.


They are active feeding and generally grubbing around all day lights present no problems and only when feeding have I seen them spooked in any way and this was just a jump and a skip spooked.
One thing I have noticed is that they have a distinct “pecking order” the dominate alpha male will rush at any fish who feeds before he can, a juicy lump of prawn is his believe me, and the other fish just get out of the way, it is a distinctive head butt not a little tap but a full rush and thump.
Growth was quite fast being around 2” in a year.

This behaviour I have put down to the small tank and expect it to stop when I have removed the other fish, it is only amongst the species ie not other fish and no damage or injuries have resulted

[Jools]

In the wild, Lamontichthys llanero doesn't need much water depth. Just current. I collected juveniles in only a few inches of water.

Also be careful of buying from different batches. While the Maracaibo species isn't exported AFAIK, the other 3 congeners are. L. filamentosus is easy as has long filaments, which are rarely fully lost even if badly handled. L. stibaros comes in with them, and L. llanero are offered for sale from the same exporters too. The last two are hardest to tell apart until settled. Smaller ocular distance, yellowish pectorals and less contracting mid body blotch on L. stibaros in comparison to the Llanos species.

The two published spawning reports I have read state the fish is an egg scatterer which seems surprising.

Jools

[macvsog23, posts: 209]

Jools your report on spawning shocked me also because mine spent around a week cleaning a upright log but I must admit I never saw and eggs just a lot of what looked like spawning ie running up and down the log after each other.

I hope to get more luck when I separate them.

I am also interest in your comments on the similarity of the species I at first thought I may have a mixed group but once settled they all look identical and seem to have the same shape.
But I still have to take that second look just to confirm .

[Shane]

Very nice posting on your experiences. Over one year with a group of these, spawning or no spawning, is quite a success as they can be very "touchy."
I think your above posting would make a great COTM on this sp. Any interest in putting one together? I would be happy to help if you need some as well as add natural habitat data.
-Shane

[Jools]

Jools your report on spawning shocked me also because mine spent around a week cleaning a upright log but I must admit I never saw and eggs just a lot of what looked like spawning ie running up and down the log after each other.

I didn't spawn them - the reports are in the wels atlas. It may be a side effect of the current and not very sticky eggs more spawns needed to confirm. Also reported, the only successful raising of fry was in near sterile water.

Jools

[macvsog23, posts: 209]

Jools your report on spawning shocked me also because mine spent around a week cleaning a upright log but I must admit I never saw and eggs just a lot of what looked like spawning ie running up and down the log after each other.

I didn't spawn them - the reports are in the wels atlas. It may be a side effect of the current and not very sticky eggs more spawns needed to confirm. Also reported, the only successful raising of fry was in near sterile water.

Jools

That may be a point as I have mine in water that is very fast flowing the main flow is around the area that was being cleaned.
I have spawned other whips and found the eggs almost impossible to remove from the glass without some form of sharp blade.
I think I need to try a few experiments with different spawning sites being made avalible?

So no one has observed spawning in the wild?
Is any log of the successful spawning available?

My experience of fish that lay eggs on upright structures ie the glass of a tank or upright wood/ plants is that the fry don’t like to move far for food.

[Norman, posts: 195]

Hi,

The two published spawning reports I have read state the fish is an egg scatterer which seems surprising.

...

the reports are in the wels atlas

No, they aren't egg scatterer. Even in the wels atlas this is not reported.
In fact often the eggs don't glue on strongly at the substrate, so they sink to the bottom of the tank. Causes for this may be water hardness combined with strong current.

They need a substrate (glas, smooth stone or wood) to spawn. Before they do this, the male cleanes up the place for a period of some days. Often the prefered place is nearby a strong current.

so long
Norman

[Jools]

Even in the wels atlas this is not reported.

Sorry I was imprecise. The English version of the wels atlas says, verbatim, "Most eggs were scattered on the bottom pane". How else should one read that? I think the translation let us down. It should have said "Most eggs were found [scattered] on the bottom pane" thus not implying they were scattered there purposefully.

Glad this is cleared up.

Having fun again with English words Norrie eh?

Jools

[macvsog23, posts: 209]

Hi

Just an update on my fish.
They are I am sure 4 Females 2 males.
The alpha male is still cleaning an upright lump of bogwood every 25 to 30 days and he seems to have decided the side to clean is the one I can’t see.
I have notice that if I feed during this "Cleaning ritual" he still carry’s on.

I have noticed 2 females are quite fat and to me look like they are full of eggs.

I have decided to just move the two females and one male in to a tank so they are the only fish.
Any one got any tips?
I will do daily water changes using RO and HMA mixed TDS around 170 to 200.
I will do a weekly water change of neat RO with an adjusted TDS of around 100
I am going to feed Blood worm and shrimp for a few days before the low TDS water change.
I have observed they don’t eat Courgette and seem to go crazy for any thing else be it dry food or fresh food.
Temp is 26 to 27?
KH around 4 to 6 and water flow is very fast I have a Eheim 2328 and an Eheim power head running a spray bar, plus an Eheim Aquaball running a venturi.
I am thinking of adding an extra Aquaball?

[Norman, posts: 195]

Hi,

Having fun again with English words Norrie eh?

Yesss!

I am thinking of adding an extra Aquaball?

Thats a good idea!
Adjust the pump streaming on a flat, standing stone or driftwood.

so long
Norrie

[zipper, posts: 54]

Hi

Just an update on my fish.
They are I am sure 4 Females 2 males.
The alpha male is still cleaning an upright lump of bogwood every 25 to 30 days and he seems to have decided the side to clean is the one I can’t see.
I have notice that if I feed during this "Cleaning ritual" he still carry’s on.

I have noticed 2 females are quite fat and to me look like they are full of eggs.

I have decided to just move the two females and one male in to a tank so they are the only fish.
Any one got any tips?
I will do daily water changes using RO and HMA mixed TDS around 170 to 200.
I will do a weekly water change of neat RO with an adjusted TDS of around 100
I am going to feed Blood worm and shrimp for a few days before the low TDS water change.
I have observed they don’t eat Courgette and seem to go crazy for any thing else be it dry food or fresh food.
Temp is 26 to 27?
KH around 4 to 6 and water flow is very fast I have a Eheim 2328 and an Eheim power head running a spray bar, plus an Eheim Aquaball running a venturi.
I am thinking of adding an extra Aquaball?

Any update on your fish?

[Shane]

Zipper,
Bob (macvsog23) passed away at the beginning of this year.
-Shane