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Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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bsmith
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Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:36 am

Well ass usual when you almost give up 'trying' to get your fish to breed they do! I was downstairs in my 'fish room' (5 tanks, 2 with fish) really just an unfinished part of my basement near the AC drainage, I thought it would be a good idea to clean out the Eheim 2217 that has "made in W.Germany" on the top (its that old seriously!). This is the filter on the 20gL I have my S.Barbatus and Black C. Schultzei in.

So I go about taking the filter off and using the hose of my gravel vac to suck up the gravel that has BBA on it and also removing water for a WC. About an hour into the process I notice some orange eggs on the far right corner glass. I figured they were just snail eggs but after closer inspection, they are definitely cory eggs.

I just dont know which cat they belong to.... Or if its even possible to determine unless these two fish have markedly different looking eggs but after looking through the catalog these eggs, the fertilized ones sure do look like the pick in the barbatus file.

Here are the pics.

Pic of the eggs showing the inside of the tank.
Image

Pic from the back.
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Last pic showing the eggs placement in the tank.
Image

Any advice or suggestions is very much appreciated!

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby sidguppy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:58 am

I expect Cory eggs to be more white or opaque instead of yellow and much more scattered since they lay eggs in small portions all over the place

looksd like snail eggs to me

what species of snail you got in there?
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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 am

MTS and ram shorn which these are definantly not. I'm sure they are 1 of the 2 cars in there. But that's it.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Thriftyfisher » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:59 am

Nice group of eggs and they are not snail eggs.

Once you breed both species you should be able to pick out what species these are without a problem. Until then you will have to hatch them out and grow out the fry to see for sure. (Unless someone else with more experience can tell from the pic.) I would remove them from the tank, I use a new razor blade and scrape them into a net, put them in a shallow container that is in the dark and add an air stone. (I know this process is posted somewhere on the forum.) The 4 whitish ones are not fertile and should not be put into the container.

Good luck and congrats!

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby jp11biod » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:37 pm

my S barbatus laid their eggs in a relatively small clump, never more than a couple of square inches, and directly on the front of the glass and in the direct flow of the powerhead.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:50 pm

C. schultzei "Black" generally lay up to 300 eggs, in my experience. S. barbatus generally average around 70 until very mature then can climb to 100 or slightly more. If this is a young adult group of S. barbatus, I would lean in that direction. Almost all of the eggs look viable. Personally, I prefer to move the adults and allow the eggs to hatch in the tank where they were deposited, but that is strictly a matter of personal preference. Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby sidguppy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:59 pm

amazinbg

I'm not used to Cory's returning to the same spot to add eggs
I've only bred a few easy species, mind.

what I've seen is that they scattered the eggs all over the place; plants, windows, stones, wood and they didn't return to put a lot of eggs in 1 spot

this is new for me
;)
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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby RIPbiglad » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:44 pm

My gold lazers spawned on the NT LABS in tank brine shrimp hatcher and there must have been 90+ eggs on it. Useful when it came to moving them :d

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Dave Rinaldo » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:11 pm

I saw my Corydoras geryi place 75 eggs ALL at the same time!
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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:42 pm

sidguppy wrote:I'm not used to Cory's returning to the same spot to add eggs

Do keep in mind that although many Corys have what could be called traditional egg laying patterns for their individual species, none of them hold completely true, 100% of the time. While S. barbatus will generally lay as shown in the photo, a closely related species S. kronei while laying in the same type of pattern, does have, in my experience one major difference. Generally the S. barbatus will lay their eggs, all directly against the surface that they spawn on, while S. kronei will lay their eggs on top of one another, something I have never seen in barbatus and always see in kronei. Additionally, both species, on occasion will go way against type and scatter their eggs over a wide area of the tank including on leaves, in moss and directly on the sand. While I have not had this happen often, it is something I witnessed a few times each year, in both species.

While I no longer keep S. barbatus in favor of what I consider to be the much more desirable, S. kronei, there is one other thing worth mentioning, as it relates to a female returning to the same spot to deposit additional eggs. While I generally will not move eggs for this species, since there was a large group of, for them, quite large Axelrodi riesei, I did move eggs as they were being laid to keep those little terrors from munching on them. If you look about 1 minute and 15 seconds into this video, you can see where the female went to where previously laid eggs had been removed and laid more eggs on the same, exact spot.



[Mod edit: Add youtube tags --Mats]

Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:20 pm

They are a relatively young group. I will have had them one year this May. So is it suggested that I remove the eggs/all other cats to stop them from cannibalizing the fry?
Last edited by bsmith on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:58 pm

bsmith wrote:They ate a relatively young group. I will have had them one year this May.

Right. Average age for first time spawning attempts, the first couple of which can go awry. The egg count would also be shy of what one would expect in a mature female.
So is it suggested that I remove the eggs/all other cats to stop them from cannibalizing the fry?

Can only say what I do. As mentioned, for this species I have had much better hatch rates when I remove the adults. I use Alder cones to prevent fungus, high sponge filter aeration, very low light, sand bottom and the lighting of candles and incense to Mother Nature. No harm in dancin' around and tossing a few chicken bones, either. Can't hurt.

There are as many techniques as there are fish keepers. Best start with the one you feel most comfortable with, first time out. Not much different than most Corys. You'll be fine. :)

Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:51 pm

I use IAL in all my tanks not only to reduce pH but also I find that the tannins from the leaves have an antiseptic effect. I have an eheim 2217 with a lilly pipe outflow that causes a good amount of air/water turbulance Directed From right to left on the back of the tank ans a mini elite filter flowing left to right in the front of the Tank. I'll check the parameters of my three holding tanks and if one is close I may remove the other fish and see what the eggs produce.

Any advise of feeding? I am thinking crushed egg/spirulina/tropical/worm flakes in the morning (~8am) and the same about 12h later.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:39 pm

bsmith wrote:Any advise of feeding? I am thinking crushed egg/spirulina/tropical/worm flakes in the morning (~8am) and the same about 12h later.

Another subject that each fish keeper seems to have their own regimen, for. I don't generally feed until the third day after hatching. I have lately started using leaf litter in all of my fry tanks and have experienced what I perceive to be an increase survival rate, but there is no way of knowing for sure. I start off with a combination of micro krill, spirulina powder and 5 to 50 micron golden pearls, until they are able to take decapped BS eggs, which is my primary protein source, supplemented by a various powdered food. You list looks to be perfectly acceptable in providing excellent nutrition. Good luck. Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:31 am

Hopefully I get some fry to feed! Any chance you know the incubation period roughly?

I really like leaf litter. It's in all my CRS tanks and I believe the microorganisms "aufwechs" (I think) that reside afte a couple of weeks are a wonderful source of nutrition for all inverts and cat fry. There has to be something good on there they like otherwise why would they constantly be grouped on it picking the crap out of it.

It sounds like you are using oak leaves. Do you know which type? I have a few pin oaks in my yard but since my lawn is maintained (weed control/fertilization) with chemicals I'm just not willing to take the chance of introducing anything harmful to the tanks by using my oak leaves. From what I have read oak leaves are pretty good but they don't hold up as well as IAL and also release less/less pontent tannins too.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:48 am

bsmith wrote:Hopefully I get some fry to feed! Any chance you know the incubation period roughly?

Hi Brandon. Very temperature dependent, but 3 days is about average.
I really like leaf litter. It's in all my CRS tanks and I believe the microorganisms "aufwechs" (I think) that reside afte a couple of weeks are a wonderful source of nutrition for all inverts and cat fry. There has to be something good on there they like otherwise why would they constantly be grouped on it picking the crap out of it.

Makes sense, but I'm new to using it in my tanks and am still evaluating. No matter how you look at it, they are "rotting." lol.
It sounds like you are using oak leaves.

Yep.
Do you know which type?

Nope.
I have a few pin oaks in my yard but since my lawn is maintained (weed control/fertilization) with chemicals I'm just not willing to take the chance of introducing anything harmful to the tanks by using my oak leaves. From what I have read oak leaves are pretty good but they don't hold up as well as IAL and also release less/less pontent tannins too.

That sounds about right. :). Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:02 am

Yep and my 84 degree L183 tank they rot pretty quickly. The IAL have a very sturdy spine that does not degrade that aids in removal of the spent litter.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby Coryologist » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:01 pm

bsmith wrote:Yep and my 84 degree L183 tank they rot pretty quickly. The IAL have a very sturdy spine that does not degrade that aids in removal of the spent litter.

I need to reorder some of those as I am moving heavily into keeping wild bettas. Do you have a US supplier for them as I can only find them is SE Asia? I'm also looking for a US supplier of Shirakura micro organism powder and mineral rock for CRS. If you could turn me on to a US supplier of any or all of those, I'd greatly appreciate it. Rather than distill this thread, please PM me if you can help. Thanks. Cheers. - Frank

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:36 pm

Coryologist wrote:
bsmith wrote:Yep and my 84 degree L183 tank they rot pretty quickly. The IAL have a very sturdy spine that does not degrade that aids in removal of the spent litter.

I need to reorder some of those as I am moving heavily into keeping wild bettas. Do you have a US supplier for them as I can only find them is SE Asia? I'm also looking for a US supplier of Shirakura micro organism powder and mineral rock for CRS. If you could turn me on to a US supplier of any or all of those, I'd greatly appreciate it. Rather than distill this thread, please PM me if you can help. Thanks. Cheers. - Frank


Certainly.

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Re: Egg ID (s.barbatus or Black C. Schultzei)

Postby bsmith » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:16 am

Man I did not think that removing ~35 eggs from the glass and putting them in a container would be so hard! It took me almost an hour to do and I still lost a few eggs.

I am using a 5"x5" Tupperware container to house the eggs. I have it floating in the tank they were laid in and have an air stone bubbling in the middle of the container. I pulled some moss and IAL from the tank and put it in there too. Hopefully they have the micro critters on them the fry like to eat.

Here are some pics.

The tank and Tupperware floating in it.
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The container filled with stuff from the tank.
Image

The eggs.
Image
Image

Ill post up and progress/setbacks.

Do the eggs need to be moving or will the air stone provide the necessary circulation?


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