building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

@Matt :

I kind of "powerfeed" them, as they receive the same amount of food than the others, but I throw "special panaque" food into the tank twice a day. This means :

- Hikari algae wafers chips
- Novo pleco chips XXL
- Hikari sinking "green reef" pellets (for Malawi/Tanga)
- once a week : a big zucchini

Moreover, they also take small bites of shrimps, mussels, earthworms, anchors, when stingrays, Cichlas, Myleus and Arow's let it fall on the bottom... It's not assigned to them, but it seems they never read a book classifying them as "not carnivore"...

I clean the bottom with a suction pvc pipe every 2-3 days, doing a 200-300 liters waterchange in the same time. This means around 1000 liters water change per week, more or less 10%.

I cleaned (rinced) my two gravity pond filter for the first time in 6 months in early April... That was a MUST not for biological filtration, which was still perfect, but for the suspended "mud" into the water...

I must admit this tank (yes, you can still call it a tank ) is a BLAST !

[rob rensen, posts: 271]

Just read this..great tank and awesome fish. Like (ofcourse) you're panaque's....nice L27

[MatsP]

I'm confident they aren't Panaque cf_armbrusteri`tocantins` as they are essentially brown in colour. But I'm very suspicious of 3 of the images in the Cat-eLog as they look almost identical to those of juvenile Panaque sp(l191). Can we check that they aren't placed incorrectly?

Would you be able to post in "Catelog Issues" which pictures are placed incorrectly. In this thread, I'm afraid they'll just end up "lost" - and if there are pictures that are "wrong", we should fix it.

--
Mats

[matthewfaulkner, posts: 289]

I'm confident they aren't Panaque cf_armbrusteri`tocantins` as they are essentially brown in colour. But I'm very suspicious of 3 of the images in the Cat-eLog as they look almost identical to those of juvenile Panaque sp(l191). Can we check that they aren't placed incorrectly?

Would you be able to post in "Catelog Issues" which pictures are placed incorrectly. In this thread, I'm afraid they'll just end up "lost" - and if there are pictures that are "wrong", we should fix it.

--
Mats

I'll make a thread now before I forget.

@Matt :

I kind of "powerfeed" them, as they receive the same amount of food than the others, but I throw "special panaque" food into the tank twice a day. This means :

- Hikari algae wafers chips
- Novo pleco chips XXL
- Hikari sinking "green reef" pellets (for Malawi/Tanga)
- once a week : a big zucchini

Moreover, they also take small bites of shrimps, mussels, earthworms, anchors, when stingrays, Cichlas, Myleus and Arow's let it fall on the bottom... It's not assigned to them, but it seems they never read a book classifying them as "not carnivore"...

I clean the bottom with a suction pvc pipe every 2-3 days, doing a 200-300 liters waterchange in the same time. This means around 1000 liters water change per week, more or less 10%.

I cleaned (rinced) my two gravity pond filter for the first time in 6 months in early April... That was a MUST not for biological filtration, which was still perfect, but for the suspended "mud" into the water...

I must admit this tank (yes, you can still call it a tank ) is a BLAST !

Thanks for the info. Is it possible for you to observe what they actually eat? Or do you feed these in the hope they get to them? I thought you might feed more vegetables but given the amount of stuff they can graze on it's probably not that necessary. And you're obviously doing it right because they're growing like mad.

What are your water parameters like?

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

waterchanges as already told, based on tap water. The values of tap water are, depending on rain or snow melting, in a range from :

GH : 8 to 12
KH : 6 to 8
conductivity : 180 to 300 microsiemens/cm2

when changing water, there is no measurable temperature variation, as I only change 300 liters at a time, on a more than 9'500 liters netto. So it stays around 26-27°C

Considering food :

I see regularly they eat Hikari (algae wafers + sinking "green" pellets), NovoPlec XXL, chunking wood of any soft specie I throw in (every 2-3 months a new big branch).

I never caught them on zuchini... but I guess they do love it to, as it can't be the result of the only Baryancistrus and Loaches... I guess it's all by night.

Quite often, I catch them chewing on a shrimp or anchors bite...

But I guess the most important trick is well known : space + food + more than regular waterchanges

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

those babies are not Catfishes, ok, but still... I thought you might be interested

[rob rensen, posts: 271]

Nice....very nice.

I'm very curious about the panaque's Please show us some more pics

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

as begged...
the Arowana on the upper left is 22 cm. The Myleus on the right, around 25 cm TL. So you can guess the size of the Cichla, which are impossible to shoot from closer. Everytime I focus on them, they dive into the deeper further end of the tank... They still didn't get that I'm the one who's feeding them...



the smallest Panaque schaeferi, which is still 14 cm TL. I guess the biggest is 3-4 more cm TL. But I've been unable to catch it.

[rob rensen, posts: 271]

Great tank....really awesome

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

a last one for tonight...

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

After the bad experience with this too young and small Brachyplatystoma, I have the opportunity to get 12-15 cm Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum from a supplier in my area...

I know we talked about this fish for my tank... and I know it could be touchy in case of spawning-breeding from other species in the tank... It's an old dream which I cannot easily let go...

Based on my population, do you think I could home of these ? At least for a few years ? I always have the opportunity to give it away to a public aquarium (TierPark Bern or Papillorama Kerzers) not too far from my place...

I'm waiting for your opinions... even if I almost made up my mind...

[MatsP]

I always have the opportunity to give it away to a public aquarium (TierPark Bern or Papillorama Kerzers) not too far from my place...

Do you know that these places would like your fish? Many public aquaria don't have space for "unwanted species".

--
Mats

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

TierPark have several tanks of more than 5'000 liters... especially one with stingrays and arowanas...

and Papillorama is something you have to visit if you come to Switzerland... in other wonders, they have a 100'000 liters "Nocturama" pond, where they house : Pseudoplatystoma, Arowanas, Stingrays, Pacu, Phractocephallus, Sailfin Plecos, giant Goramy (Osphronemus), and so on...

They have 3 domes, Papillorama, JungleTreck and Nocturama, each one hosting a specific exposition :

http://www.papiliorama.ch/default.asp?OrgID=5

Just great place !!!

and they are used to collect the "homeless and unresponsible" fishes from the whole Switzerland...

If interest on the Papillorama topic -> MP

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

some new pictures I borrowed (again) to Mr. Arnaud Filleul (thanks to him) :

Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum with complex signs on his sides


which is different from Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum with vertical bars


B. fasciatum is much smaller than the "terrific" Pseudoplatystoma corruscans with spots which is a real "monster" in size and hunting behaviour

[sidguppy, posts: 3827]

the first one looks like Pseudoplatystoma reticulatum to me, not tigrinum....

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

I'm not qualified to enter this topic... Arnaud explains on the initial french topic that localy, there are more than 15 "in between" species and that the local fishermen go quite irritated when someone tries to go further than the three vernacular name :

"Caparari" for the P. tigrinum
"Cachara" for the P. fasciatum
"Pintado" for the P. corruscans

I noticed to Arnaud that I used his pictures on this present topic... he may come to open a discussion on this very subject here... at least, I hope so...

[Arnaud Filleul, posts: 4]

Hi,

My name is Arnaud Filleul, I am a french paleontologist and writer, and I may actually know a lot of people participating to this forum. Since I have been invited by eltofi, it might be a good occasion to check if some people I know are around. I also have a question. I have been travelling all around the world, mostly for fishing articles, the last 15 years. I spend a few years in Brazil alone. When we catch a "caparari", we often have troubles to make a proper identification. I have not been through the bibliography for a while. Someone could give me a good recent article about Pseudoplatystoma reticulatum, and informations about the rios where the exact identification has first been done.

Thanks in advance

Arnaud

[ElTofi, posts: 500]

glad to see you here ! and for once, you will be the one who flood my topic... and you are welcome on it indeed !

[Arnaud Filleul, posts: 4]

I just wanted to add something, I actually went sampling in a few rios in Brazil, with a local researcher (Alec Zeinad), for genetic studies. From my experience, each rio has its own "form" of Pseudoplatystoma, and I could find at least 10-15 different forms just during my fishing explorations around Brazil. That's why my position is "wait and see" right now. I usually use only three species name : tigrinum, fasciatum, and corruscans. I think they use the same "strategy" in fishbase. But if there is specialist among you, I would welcome any information for an up to date classification.

Arnaud

[nedara, posts: 14]

Great job & nice combo fishes and plants above!