Glossary questions and requests

[Silurus]

I wonder if Corydoras is the only catfish group with the leading spine ... ?

No, loricariids have it, as does Sisor.

[Deb, posts: 416]

In that case,

"Adipose fin - a fin on the dorsal surface between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin, composed of fatty tissue, and (rarely) a hard, leading ray or a few soft rays, as seen in some catfishes, such as Corydoras and certain loricariids, for example Sisor."

Does that work? We don't need to say it's small, or anything about characins, and we only mention catfishes as an example because this is a catfish site.

What do you say?

Deborah

[Silurus]

I might point out that Sisor is NOT a loricariid.

[Deb, posts: 416]

Sorry. I thought you meant "for example, Sisor." I should have checked it, when the name sounded unfamiliar.
Revised:

"Adipose fin - a fin on the dorsal surface located between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin, composed of fatty tissue, and (rarely) a hard, leading ray or a few soft rays, as seen in some catfishes, such as Corydoras, certain loricariids, and Sisor, the Indian whiptail catfish."

Okay to go?

Deborah

[Deb, posts: 416]

Here's what I have for the topic of synonymy:

" Synonym - each of two (or more) different names for the same taxon, or taxonomic entity; another name for the same thing (that is, the same taxonomic entity, such as that which genus and species denote.) If one name is older (senior synonym) than another, that name has priority over the younger (junior synonym) name.

" Synonyms may exist on every taxonomic level. On Planet Catfish we usually see synonyms at the species level. Example: "These would be Vandellia cirrhosa. Vandellia plazaii is a junior synonym. "

" Junior synonym â?? the younger (later established) name of two synonyms. "

" Senior synonym â?? the older (earlier established) name of two synonyms. "


This next one is hard to paraphrase. I came up with this:

" Subjective synonym - a name whose synonymy with one or more other names is a matter of opinion. "


I checked this next one out with HH first, and he said it was good to go:

" Objective synonym â?? each of two or more synonyms that indicate named taxonomic entities (taxonomic taxa) - that is, species, genera, etc., known as nominal taxa - having the same name-bearing type, that is, the holotype (neotype, if no holotype), lectotype, or a syntype series, and referencing a name-bearing type at the species level, or a type species at the genera level, or a type genera at the family level, and so on up the hierarchy. "

" Want to learn more? More discussion and much cross-referencing can be found in the Glossary of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature (iczn) here: http://www.iczn.org/iczn/index.jsp "

Amanda, if you want to add the reference to the iczn, it might be a good idea. You may not want to link it, just mention it ... ?
Whatever you think is best.

Deborah

[Marc van Arc]

"Adipose fin - a fin on the dorsal surface located between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin, composed of fatty tissue, and (rarely) a hard, leading ray or a few soft rays, as seen in some catfishes, such as Corydoras, certain loricariids, and Sisor, the Indian whiptail catfish." Deborah

Would you consider this pls?

"Adipose fin - a fin on the dorsal surface located between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin, composed of fatty tissue and (rarely) a hard, leading ray or a few soft rays, as seen in some catfishes, such as most Callichthyidae, Loricariidae and Sisor, the Indian whiptail catfish (Sisoridae)."

[Deb, posts: 416]

Well, if you're asking me, I think it's excellent!
Do you think you should italicize Sisor?

[Marc van Arc]

Well, if you're asking me, I think it's excellent!

The credits are yours. All I did was delete a comma and change some names.....

Do you think you should italicize Sisor?

Yes, to indicate that it isn't a family name.

[bronzefry, posts: 2198]

I love it Marc and Deb! I'll put adipose fin in today. I was reading Dr. Warren Burgess' A Complete Introduction To Corydoras And Related Catfishes last night(page 14 diagram). He broke this anatomy down in to two parts: the adipose fin and the adipose fin spine. Is there any validity to the term adipose fin spine? I wonder if every author has his or her own way of describing things.

The ICZN is quite a work. I'm just going into the glossary for now. I took taxonomy out because I don't think I was complete in the definition. Here's another go at it:
"The theory and practice of classifying organisms." It's the same in ICZN and Audubon(who probably used ICZN).

What's throwing me with the synonym definitions is that I'm looking up definitions for words in the definition. This ought to help me:

Taxon: "A group or group of populations which are related. A taxon has charactaristics which separates it from other populations."

Nominal Taxa:" A taxon which is denoted by an available name."

Taxonomic Taxon: (Whoever came up with this term??)
Thanks for all the input. (I'm going to print up what's been posted over the past 24 hours and see if I have a better understanding of synonyms, in the Icthyological sense.)
Amanda

[bronzefry, posts: 2198]

If there are no more comments with the synonym bunch, I'll put them in later today. Nicely done, Folks! I want to enter those four terms at once. If someone sees Objective Synonym, but not Synonym, it may cause some confusion.

While I have a moment, I'm going to re-enter Taxonomy.

I also just got a copy of the book The World Of Catfishes by Midori Kobayagawa. What a resource for a novice like me. The chapter near the end on anatomy and physiology labeled "Introduction" is very helpful. The Weberian Apparatus is amazing. The swimbladder awaits me tonight.
Amanda

[Deb, posts: 416]

I also just got a copy of the book The World Of Catfishes by Midori Kobayagawa.

That sounds like a really good book. I'll look for it.

Would you agree to reword this:
"Nominal Taxa: A taxon which is denoted by an available name."

to this:
"Nominal Taxon (pl. taxa): A taxon which is denoted by an available name."

A taxonomic taxon seems to be a taxon with a name determined from the nominal taxa in its ranks!
I'm sure that's a simple view.

Deborah

[bronzefry, posts: 2198]

Deb,
Is the proper way to to the "plural" bit at the beginning?

Here's the original from ICZN for Taxonomic Taxon:
"A taxon (e.g. family, genus, species) including whatever nominal taxa and individuals a zoologist at any time considers it to contain in his or her endeavour to define the boundaries of a zoological taxon (q.v.). A taxonomic taxon is denoted by the valid name determined from the available names of its included nominal taxa."

I believe it has something to do with the individual scientist and his/her work. Another dictionary has basically the same: http://www.briancoad.com/Dictionary/introduction.htm but it has been re-worked.

Here's my preliminary version:
Taxonomic Taxon: "A taxon which is pertinent to a zoologist in his/her field of study to help define the boundaries of a zoological taxon."

Zoological Taxon:"A natural taxon of animals which may or may not be named."

Natural Taxon: "A taxon with a unique evolutionary decent."

We began with "synonym" and one word leads to another and another. Let's get the "taxon" words squared away. How are we doing?
Amanda

[Silurus]

I would stick to just defining "taxon" and leaving out the rest. As a practising taxonomist, I must say that is the first time I have encountered "zoological taxon" and "taxonomic taxon".
Seriously, how often do those phrases crop up on this website? Let's not get carried away here...

[Deb, posts: 416]

Amanda wrote:

Is the proper way to to the "plural" bit at the beginning?

That's where the regular dictionary puts it, and I just copied them!

I like your prelim on taxonomic taxon. I just added a little more. How about this?

"Taxonomic Taxon: A taxon including any nominal taxa and individuals pertinent to the study of a particular zoologist in defining the boundaries of a zoological taxon."

That way we get to mention nominal taxa again, and keep the cross-referencing going.

( BTW, my description in the previous post was a little tongue-in-cheek, but it included this idea, from the iczn definition:
"A taxonomic taxon is denoted by the valid name determined from the available names of its included nominal taxa." )

What do you think of this for taxon:
"Taxon: A population or group of populations with characteristics in common which separates it from other such populations; a taxonomic unit or entity."

It's basically the same as yours, but it brings in the phrases "taxonomic unit" and "entity" which were used freely in the other descriptions. I feel like we need to use the same phrases and descriptions in these definitions, so that people will see how they go together. Do you think so?
You've got nominal taxon and zoological taxon (new one!) ready to go, I think. The others should be chiming in at any minute ... of course, it's probably midnight where they live ...

Deborah

[Silurus]

Here is a basic neurocranium (skull) picture for use in defining the bones.

Ultimately, I think the guide should be interactive, so that when one moves the cursor over a particular bone, it is shaded out in color and the name is displayed. If someone volunteers to color out each bone, I can provide a larger pic and the names.

[Silurus]

Something like this:

[Deb, posts: 416]

If it's as simple as it looks, I volunteer to color out each bone. If it involves learning how to use a program, I could probably learn it but someone would have to take the time to show me.

So, if that won't work, maybe there is someone who already knows how to do this ...

Also, I see you (HH) and I posted at exactly the same time, 11:18 pm, earlier. I didn't get to read yours, before I posted mine. I admit to getting carried away! (Is there an embarrassed Bugs Bunny grin emoticon?)

Deborah

[bronzefry, posts: 2198]

Seriously, how often do those phrases crop up on this website? Let's not get carried away here...

Two minds of a single thought, HH. I was going to post something quite similar. I apologize for getting out of hand. I'm trying to run a marathon before I learn to walk. I'm also thinking of leaving out Objective Synonym and Subjective Synonym for now. We don't see these on Planet Catfish. But, we see Synonym, Junior Synonym and Senior Synonym. The work you've done on these terms is fabulous, Deb. I've tried to pare this down a bit:
Synonym: "In general, another name for the same thing. In zoology, each of two(or more) different names for the same taxon or taxonomic entity."

Junior Synonym: "The later established of two synonyms. A Senior Synonym has priority over a Junior Synonym."

Senior Synonym: "The earlier established of two synonyms. A Senior Synonym has priority over a Junior Synonym"

HH, there was a photo in the Corydora section a few weeks back with a close-up of a dorsal fin. The spine and rays were numbered.http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15035

I can help with the illustrations.
Amanda

[Deb, posts: 416]

I agree. Let's leave out Objective and Subjective Synonyms. I like your final definitions of Synonym, Junior, and Senior, and if HH agrees, I think we should go with those. Since the word "taxon" comes up in the definition for synonym, how can we leave it out? Would you agree to add taxon to the glossary?

"Taxon: A population or group of populations with characteristics in common which separates it from other such populations; a taxonomic unit or entity."

Thanks for the nice words. I don't regret one single minute I spent on those definitions. I learned a tremendous amount, and I know it will be put to good use at some time.

Deborah

[Silurus]

Amanda,

Do you have any experience with vector graphics programs (like Adobe Illustrator)? The coloring of the bones are easiest done in those.