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MatsP wrote: pure
Not a hybrid, of pure origin. Both parents are the same species and/or variety.

hybrid
The parents are not the same species, creating a mixture of two different species.

Mats

Obviously, if one produces ofspring starting with 2 animals, of the same species, but another variety, the result will not be a hybrid, but the offspring will not be pure either

Anybody has a name for such, in my eyes unwanted, offspring?

Another, but fairly easily identifiable pseudo-decora - ie the valentine/valentiana.

This was actually labelled schoutedeni in the branch of a well-known chain over here

A slight variation of the often seen zebra syno / zebrinus

Bas Pels wrote:

MatsP wrote: pure
Not a hybrid, of pure origin. Both parents are the same species and/or variety.

hybrid
The parents are not the same species, creating a mixture of two different species.

Mats

Obviously, if one produces ofspring starting with 2 animals, of the same species, but another variety, the result will not be a hybrid, but the offspring will not be pure either

Anybody has a name for such, in my eyes unwanted, offspring?

I don't know of a name other than "crossbreed" or "crossbred" - this is the name used in cat and dog-breeding, where different variants are available as "purebreds", and crosses between these are called "crossbreeds", and normally not encouraged.

--
Mats

Bas Pels wrote: Obviously, if one produces ofspring starting with 2 animals, of the same species, but another variety, the result will not be a hybrid, but the offspring will not be pure either

Anybody has a name for such, in my eyes unwanted, offspring?

intra-specific hybrids

a bastard or mutt.

still a single species, but not of any variety anymore.
like a junkyard dog.

As far as I'm aware, with regards to Synodontis, ALL known hybrids are man-made.

Among my papers I have at least 2 in regards to Synodontis hybrids occuring in the wild among populations of southern Syno's, these naturally produced hybrids had a few of the same characteristic deformaties we see when picking out man made hybrids.

Birger

One more fake ornatipinnis.

One more fake ornatipinnis

Hmmmm - looks a little short in length as a quick observation point

Just a quick update on one of the previous posts (maybe particular to the UK, or primarily so) .

There seem to be a lot of beautiful little 1-2" SL multipunctata about at the moment but they have a white hard dorsal spine & are hybrids In every other respect they are identical. I had previously seen perfect hybrid copies where there were some small flecks of black in the white area of the dorsal. I have seen these hybrid forms in 2 branches of a well known chain & a small independant retailer all within 30 minutes of home so presume they are widespread through the UK. Some of these hybrids are not being offered cheaply either, so i post as a warning - if anyone wants genuine species, just a word of caution.

On the 'galinae' images please see my comments on:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 69#p184845

Does anyone here feel comfortable making an educated guess on the suspected lineage of the valentine syno hybrid? I purchased one of these hybrids a few months back thinking it was S.decora and now Im trying to figure out the max size of this fish. Any help would be much appreciated.

mata leao wrote:Does anyone here feel comfortable making an educated guess on the suspected lineage of the valentine syno hybrid? I purchased one of these hybrids a few months back thinking it was S.decora and now Im trying to figure out the max size of this fish. Any help would be much appreciated.

Popular thinking is that "valentine" is a decora x multipunctata hybrid. I have seen these at 8" SL so i suspect decora adult size. That said i have seen other types of hybrids labelled valentine too

Richard B wrote:

mata leao wrote:Does anyone here feel comfortable making an educated guess on the suspected lineage of the valentine syno hybrid? I purchased one of these hybrids a few months back thinking it was S.decora and now Im trying to figure out the max size of this fish. Any help would be much appreciated.

Popular thinking is that "valentine" is a decora x multipunctata hybrid. I have seen these at 8" SL so i suspect decora adult size. That said i have seen other types of hybrids labelled valentine too

Thank you very much for your help. The fish is nearly identical to the pic you posted of a valentine syno on page 5 of this thread. Ill try and snap a few shots of it soon just to be certain. Thanks again.

Richard,

Attached another pic of my hybrid. Should I add this to the catelog as a new hybrid?

Jools

Richard, I thought that decora x multipunctata hybrid is called jaguar because of the clouded spots it has. Is it the same as valentine?

is there a spot for these hybrids in cat-eLog with a collection of pics for id-ying?

Viktor Jarikov wrote:is there a spot for these hybrids in cat-eLog with a collection of pics for id-ying?

Look for Synodontis sp. hybrid

The catfish family Mochokidae

Jools wrote:Richard,

Attached another pic of my hybrid. Should I add this to the catelog as a new hybrid?

Jools

This variation is not in cat-e-log

Richard B wrote:

Jools wrote:Should I add this to the catelog as a new hybrid?

This variation is not in cat-e-log

OK, I've now added it.

Jools

Jools,

Price aside, is there any reason to confirm that your fish are hybrids and not something like ?

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Richard, I thought that decora x multipunctata hybrid is called jaguar because of the clouded spots it has. Is it the same as valentine?

One of the problems with hybrids is that distributors come up with all sorts of names for them - leopard syno, tiger syno, valentine, species white tip, multipunctatus silver, multipunctatus black - whatever they feel like. additionally some true species names are used like velifer, pardalis, koensis, robertsi, longirostris, ornatipinnis.

If you look on aquabid there are valentine which look nothing like the multi x decora hybrid which has been seen as valentine previously.

The naming of hybrids is immaterial really as they're all hybrids which can only best be described with the code hybrid 1, hybrid 2 etc - 'common' names are misleading at the best of times

Thanks, Richard! Makes sense. What a mess though. What's aquabid? an action website selling fish?

Aquabid is indeed an auction web-site (in north america) where people sell their fish.

--
Mats

Silurus wrote:Jools,

Price aside, is there any reason to confirm that your fish are hybrids and not something like

Synodontis caudovittata

?

Good question.

They were bought from Neil Hardy Aquatics via my LFS as Synodontis sp. "white tip" which was in the hybrid section and all other synos ordered were hybrids - a few other strains I've not seen either. They were around 15-20mm TL when purchased. At that size they looked identical to larger saving dusky barbels.

So, I don't know they are hybrids, but I would seem likely.

Jools

Jools wrote: Good question.
They were bought from Neil Hardy Aquatics via my LFS as Synodontis sp. "white tip" which was in the hybrid section and all other synos ordered were hybrids - a few other strains I've not seen either. They were around 15-20mm TL when purchased. At that size they looked identical to larger

Synodontis granulosa

saving dusky barbels.

So, I don't know they are hybrids, but I would seem likely.

Jools

One of my lfs also had these in at a similar very small size, sold as the same "White tip". I know that Neil Hardy's did allegedly breed some wild S. granulosa that he got from a friend of mine, but I would have thought they would have been sold as S. granulosa, rather than this common name. I would go for hybrid too based on the very small size and the name they are being marketed under.

To me Jools fish has that rift cat(multi/grandiops/granny) looking sort of shape to it, I would wager it is fairly active as well, Is it?

Birger

Silurus wrote: Price aside, is there any reason to confirm that your fish are hybrids and not something like

Synodontis caudovittata

?

Seems really odd that someone would breed such a plain looking hybrid for retail.
But it also doesn't seems like it's caudovittata as the eye is not round but oval.

Seems really odd that someone would breed such a plain looking hybrid for retail.
But it also doesn't seems like it's caudovittata as the eye is not round but oval.

When they are young they are not plain. They have pattern and purplish colouration which is very similar to young S. granulosa.


[mod edit: fix quote --Mats]

the "white tip" or" white fin" is a hybrid produced by NHA which i discussed with them at GLEE a couple of years ago - although i don't know what the parent fish are.

I know that Neil Hardy's did allegedly breed some wild S. granulosa

I can confirm this has happened as i've been down there & seen the adult stock & young at 10mm & at larger sizes. I have 2 which are currently approx 120mm & 200mm.