The Mystus ID Thread
- Shovelnose
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The Mystus ID Thread
Chaos and confusion reigned as I shifted specimens between tanks as they grew and as a result, I now have over half a dozen with no name or collection locality and this is eating me away like a carnivorous bacteria.
I thought I could start a thread to get all of them ID'ed one by one. So I tried taking what I ASSUMED were important to ID Mystus. In case better or more relevant pics are required, ask away.
I have kept the uncompressed versions of these images intact too as they might help for zoom purposes.
The specimen. Maxillary barbels extend till the anal fin and it looks like the outer mandibular reaches the spine of the pectoral fin.
Dorsal fin. No serrations on the spine as far as I can see.
Adipose fin. Adipose fins base looks longer than dorsal fin base???
Pectoral fin. I counted 13 serrations.
Caudal fin. I don't think it is showing clearly in the pics but the first few rays in both lobes are tinged black. There is a blotch on the caudal peduncle too.
This the pattern the specimens sports throughout the year. The pink becomes more prominent with cooler water (monsoon here now).I also think this is a fairly old specimen for some strange reason.
Everything except the smooth dorsal spine (smooth to my eyes) seem to point towards . What do you think???
I thought I could start a thread to get all of them ID'ed one by one. So I tried taking what I ASSUMED were important to ID Mystus. In case better or more relevant pics are required, ask away.
I have kept the uncompressed versions of these images intact too as they might help for zoom purposes.
The specimen. Maxillary barbels extend till the anal fin and it looks like the outer mandibular reaches the spine of the pectoral fin.
Dorsal fin. No serrations on the spine as far as I can see.
Adipose fin. Adipose fins base looks longer than dorsal fin base???
Pectoral fin. I counted 13 serrations.
Caudal fin. I don't think it is showing clearly in the pics but the first few rays in both lobes are tinged black. There is a blotch on the caudal peduncle too.
This the pattern the specimens sports throughout the year. The pink becomes more prominent with cooler water (monsoon here now).I also think this is a fairly old specimen for some strange reason.
Everything except the smooth dorsal spine (smooth to my eyes) seem to point towards . What do you think???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
That's a cracking looking fish! Apart from the possible lack of small serrations on the posterior edge of the dorsal fin spine, this matches the description of M. montanus in Jayaram & Sanyal, the colour pattern matching those they found at Malampuzha dam, Kerala. To me it is not 'armatus' (meaning the fish that is passed off as armatus).
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Hey Steve,
Unfortunately, I only have a small part of the book you mentioned. The key states M.montanus should have "a bluish shoulder spot and a silvery line along the side ending in a dark spot at the base of the caudal ; one or two light bands along sides above lateral line." Anything other than this in the species description???
Freshwater Fishes Of The Indian Region doesn't have much on this species other than the part 'bout the bands.
I did get one specimen from Olavakkode (a few kilometres from Malampuzha Dam) sometime ago but I can't confirm if this was it at the moment.
Unfortunately, I only have a small part of the book you mentioned. The key states M.montanus should have "a bluish shoulder spot and a silvery line along the side ending in a dark spot at the base of the caudal ; one or two light bands along sides above lateral line." Anything other than this in the species description???
Freshwater Fishes Of The Indian Region doesn't have much on this species other than the part 'bout the bands.
I did get one specimen from Olavakkode (a few kilometres from Malampuzha Dam) sometime ago but I can't confirm if this was it at the moment.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Hi. Yes the species account goes into more detail. I will post tonight when I get home
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Thanks to Beta, I now have 'zoomed in' versions of the dorsal and pectoral spines.
Spot any serrations???
13 or 14 serrations here????
Spot any serrations???
13 or 14 serrations here????
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
There are some feeble serrations on the dorsal fin spine IMO. This matches the description in J&S and so does the number on the pectoral fin spine. The fontanel matches, so does the supraoccipital process, and the post cleithral process.
From J&S:
"Colour: In alcohol preserved specimens dark grayish brown with pale yellowish bands along sides above and below lateral line; ventral surface of head and abdomen light brown. Fresh specimens silvery gray with light yellowish bands along sides. Some examples caught from Malampuzha dam were dark violet with greenish bands along sides ending in dark spot at base of caudal fin. Specimens gradually turned yellow when preserved in formalin." They hypothesised that the difference in these specimens may be due to the dark and stagnant waters they were caught in. I have noticed that malabaricus and canarensis both can go a purplish colour depending on light, but can sometimes then just look grey and black. For example this fish:
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/bagri ... aricus.jpg
Is exactly the same specimen as this:
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/bagri ... ricus6.jpg
I think you have montanus.
From J&S:
"Colour: In alcohol preserved specimens dark grayish brown with pale yellowish bands along sides above and below lateral line; ventral surface of head and abdomen light brown. Fresh specimens silvery gray with light yellowish bands along sides. Some examples caught from Malampuzha dam were dark violet with greenish bands along sides ending in dark spot at base of caudal fin. Specimens gradually turned yellow when preserved in formalin." They hypothesised that the difference in these specimens may be due to the dark and stagnant waters they were caught in. I have noticed that malabaricus and canarensis both can go a purplish colour depending on light, but can sometimes then just look grey and black. For example this fish:
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/bagri ... aricus.jpg
Is exactly the same specimen as this:
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/bagri ... ricus6.jpg
I think you have montanus.
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Alright!!! Thanks Steve.That's one down!!!!
The second one.
I am very sure this specimen is from Kumaradhara. Its is currently around 3 inches TL. The maxillary barbels reach the anal fin and outer mandibulars reach the pectoral fin here too. There is a prominent preorbital stripe.
No serrations on the dorsal spine???
Adipose fin base bigger than dorsal. Adipose covers almost the entire distance between dorsal and hypural.
I counted 8 serrations but I am definitely looking for a second opinion.
Mid lateral stripe ends in a triangular blotch on the caudal peduncle.
The colour has faded a bit due to stress as I shifted it to a photo tank. This is a dull grey Mystus. I haven't noticed this specimen getting the pink tinge yet (been keeping it since February this year). Quite a feisty character for this size.
The second one.
I am very sure this specimen is from Kumaradhara. Its is currently around 3 inches TL. The maxillary barbels reach the anal fin and outer mandibulars reach the pectoral fin here too. There is a prominent preorbital stripe.
No serrations on the dorsal spine???
Adipose fin base bigger than dorsal. Adipose covers almost the entire distance between dorsal and hypural.
I counted 8 serrations but I am definitely looking for a second opinion.
Mid lateral stripe ends in a triangular blotch on the caudal peduncle.
The colour has faded a bit due to stress as I shifted it to a photo tank. This is a dull grey Mystus. I haven't noticed this specimen getting the pink tinge yet (been keeping it since February this year). Quite a feisty character for this size.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
That is Mystus malabaricus IMO
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Would this also be malabaricus then??? This from the Nethravathi.
Both are in the same tank but this one is always pink while the other hardly.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- Birger
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Sex difference or one is dominant possibly??Both are in the same tank but this one is always pink while the other hardly.
Birger
Birger
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Could be. The other one also has a slightly deeper body.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
I'd need a shot of the head from above of the last specimen
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
These are the images I have currently. Good enough or need more???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Mmm. It is looking like malabaricus too, I don't think it is elongated enough for canarensis and the supraoccipital process doesn't seem right.
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Will better pics help Steve???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
No mate the pics are fine. I think this is a younger malabaricus.
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Great!!!!! Another malabaricus.
The fourth specimen.
This specimen is most likely from the Tambraparani basin in Tamil Nadu. Not as deep bodied as the malabaricus earlier in the thread. The specimen is around 5 " TL. I am not sure if it is clear in the pic but the fins are tinged yellow.
Adipose seems slightly smaller than the malabaricus specimens posted above. There seems to a bigger notch between the caudal and adipose fins here???
I can't see any serrations (again ).
10 - 11 serrations on the pectoral spine.
Head shots.
What do you think???? Another malabaricus???
The fourth specimen.
This specimen is most likely from the Tambraparani basin in Tamil Nadu. Not as deep bodied as the malabaricus earlier in the thread. The specimen is around 5 " TL. I am not sure if it is clear in the pic but the fins are tinged yellow.
Adipose seems slightly smaller than the malabaricus specimens posted above. There seems to a bigger notch between the caudal and adipose fins here???
I can't see any serrations (again ).
10 - 11 serrations on the pectoral spine.
Head shots.
What do you think???? Another malabaricus???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Mmm. This one is a bit more difficult. I thought canarensis when I first saw it but the supraoccipital is wrong for that species. Closest I can get is malabaricus. It's definitely not montanus IMO
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
A slightly smaller specimen of the species posted above.
The size of the adipose and lesser body depth made me think these could be something other than M.malabaricus.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
I see the differences but this could be down to a combination of size and sex. Any shots of the head from above?
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Pics of the smaller specimen.
Good enough???
Good enough???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
I think the last fish is the same as the one before, but whether they are different enough from the others to make them another species is hard to tell. They are not canarensis. They are closer to malabaricus but the adipose seems different. I don't think they are armatus as I think that armatus (as described) is a synonym of oculatus. They dont look like ankutta. I can't ID these for definite, sorry.
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
As in the 3rd fish in the thread and fish 4,5 could be the same??? Fish 4 and 5 are the same yes.The.Dark.One wrote:I think the last fish is the same as the one before
I am unable to pinpoint the collection locality of this specimen.
The pattern is a bit faded due to stress but looks very similar to vittatus as HH had pointed out earlier in another thread. Maxillary barbels extend only till the ventral fin
An old picture to show the pattern better. I had wrongly assumed this was montanus due to the stripes.
Dorsal spine.
Adipose fin base seems slightly longer than the dorsal fin base.
Head shots.
8-9 serrations on the pectoral spine.
Is this just vittatus with a few missing stripes???
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Nope, but let me put it this way. I could give this one a name if you can provide me a specimen with a collection locality.Shovelnose wrote: Is this just vittatus with a few missing stripes???
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
I am stuck at the moment with the collection locality part. A trip will happen end of this month that will hopefully lead to more specimens of this species with the collection locality.Silurus wrote:I could give this one a name if you can provide me a specimen with a collection locality.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
A new species then? I though the fontanel, supraoccipital process, short adipose fin, and short barbels made it a contender for M. keletius?
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Mystus keletius does not have barbels this short, plus the dorsal-to-adipose distance appears longer in Balaji's fish.
- Shovelnose
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Edit : Post moved.
Last edited by Shovelnose on 01 Dec 2011, 04:52, edited 1 time in total.
Balaji
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
- The.Dark.One
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
Ok. I know it's not fully accurate but J&S state the maxillary barbels only reach the ventral fins?Silurus wrote:Mystus keletius does not have barbels this short, plus the dorsal-to-adipose distance appears longer in Balaji's fish.
- Silurus
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Re: The Mystus ID Thread
I discount anything in that travesty of a paper. That's all I have to say about that.