Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

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bekateen
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Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:07 pm

Following only two months after this thread (Self-restraint failed ), self-restraint failed again. This isn't my summer for restraint.

I was at a store with a tank full of common whiptails, all about 85-100mm SL. Super cheap. They had eight; I bought the largest six. Couldn't resist.

I expect they are Rineloricaria eigenmanni or Rineloricaria parva. They are pretty healthy looking, but don't have really full bellies, so I couldn't sex them based on condition. I tried to rely on snout shape, if that's even a thing in these (LOL, with nothing else to go by, I prayed that more pointy snout and more rounded snout = different sexes).

Getting them home, I noticed the pointy snouted fish were more contrasting in color (darker bands and saddles) than the rounder-snouted fish. I also noticed something else different about them, regarding the armor plates on the anterio-dorsal surface of the fish. Fish which had pointier noses have a different pattern of plates on the dorsum, between the base of the head and the origin of the dorsal spine (see drawing). What do you make of this? Do I have two species? Or is this a random individual variation? Growth stage? Sexual dimorphism? Been trying to track down this info on Google scholar, but not finding exactly what I need.

Cheers, Eric
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Two species? or sexual dimorphism? Individual variation?
Two species? or sexual dimorphism? Individual variation?
20190709_132502[1].jpg
20190709_135405[1].jpg
20190709_131133[1].jpg
20190709_135651[1].jpg
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:32 am

Still trying to figure out how to ID. I've read elsewhere here that Rineloricaria eigenmanni will have a dark band on the dorsal. Does the photos shown here match R. eigenmanni?

Thanks, Eric
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This fish has the pointy snout as shown on right above.
This fish has the pointy snout as shown on right above.
This fish has the rounded snout as shown on left above.
This fish has the rounded snout as shown on left above.
This fish also has the rounded snout as shown on left above.
This fish also has the rounded snout as shown on left above.
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:19 am

During quarantine, I lost 3. Still have 3 left. Here they are. I think 2 males, 1 female. I still suspect the one with dark bands on the fins (middle fish in both photos) is a different species, but I'm also unconvinced since one of the others with a broken band on the fins (left fish in both photos) has had its fins darken up somewhat (visible in photo). Anybody know if these are all same species? And even which species they are? And can you confirm my sexing, that the two on left and center are males, and the one on right is female?

Thanks,
Eric
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Rineloricaria 2019-10-09 update_2.jpg
Rineloricaria 2019-10-09 update.png
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:38 am

Here's a brief video showing the fish from a side view, to try and display their dorsals and caudal fins a bit.

Cheers, Eric

Rineloricaria... but what species?

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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by Jools » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:40 am

Can you get a shot of all of the ventral surface. R. eigenmanni should have markings on the lower body. The head plates you look at help with some species but not all.

I agree with your thoughts on their gender.

Jools

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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:02 pm

In photo, the female (with palest markings above) is left. Largest male, with more broken fin markings, is middle, and the smaller male with most bold fin markings is to right.

I don't see any significant coloration on the underbelly. So, parva for all?

Cheers, Eric
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20191010_130819~2.jpg
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:10 am

Norman Behr identified my whiptails as Rineloricaria eigenmanni, not Rineloricaria parva. He highlighted the fin banding and the dark bars running longitudinally along the abdominal posterior of the body (visible along the left and right margins of the undersides of the fish in the photo above).

Thank you @Norman.

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by Jools » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:37 pm

As a side / supporting note but I'd love to run the numbers on this thought. I would say that, purely on a percentage basis, that > 75% of all Rineloricaria imported into the States from South America are this species. No science or fact for that view, just looking at the commercials.

Jools

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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:29 pm

Do female whiptails develop pectoral odontodes? If not, funny thing... the fish with the darkest marks which I thought was male is the only one without them. The other two with lighter markings have them. The fish shown below is the lightest colored in the photos above showing the three side by side. Originally, I thought this light fish was the only female, but now it has odontodes. So far, this light fish has only pectoral spine and ray odontodes. The medium colored fish has odontodes on its pectoral spine and rays, and also on top of its head, near or on the supraoccipital.

Cheers, Eric
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Who has odontodes
Who has odontodes
20191217_072610~2.jpg
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:07 pm

Got three more Rineloricaria eigenmanni to build my group to six. These are smaller than the other three are today, so I'll have to wait to sex them. Time will tell.

Cheers, Eric
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20200111_102520~3.jpg
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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by molikotigo » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:32 pm

I guess you need to grow them out and see what they do. They are pretty

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Re: Rineloricaria eigenmanni or parva?

Post by bekateen » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:53 pm

:-BD Cheers
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
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