Juvenile Farlowella ID

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MissNoodle
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Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

Rescued another twig from the store (they can't keep them alive longer than a week there, due to wrong tankmates and lack of proper food)

Maybe too young, but can make out belly schutes....
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

Three rows on the belly. Almost certainly Farlowella mariaelenae.

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by fishguy1978 »

Could you post a clear picture of the tail and the snout?
Follow the guide to id
viewtopic.php?p=322799#p322799
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:20 am Three rows on the belly. Almost certainly Farlowella mariaelenae.

Cheers, Eric
Awesome, wasn't sure if I was seeing 3 rows or an incomplete middle row! This is the smallest twig I've seen in stores by far.
fishguy1978 wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:22 am Could you post a clear picture of the tail and the snout?
Follow the guide to id
viewtopic.php?p=322799#p322799
Hes not super cooperative lol
20201205_224512.jpg
20201205_212153.jpg
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

Or even if there's a middle row at all hes so small
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bekateen
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

True, it's difficult to see if the middle row is complete. Lighting and angle are all so important when trying to photograph the scouted on a live fish. But you can probably see them yourself if looking up close when the fish hangs on the glass better than you can photograph it.

Also, I believe I see 4 rows of medial scutes. Also consistent with the ID I gave before. And at this young age, you can't use adult odontodes as a trait, so a little bit of faith is needed for now.

But as said in your older posts about your others, this species co-occurs with F. vittata (which has only 2 rows of scutes) so they are often intermixed when sold.

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:24 am True, it's difficult to see if the middle row is complete. Lighting and angle are all so important when trying to photograph the scouted on a live fish. But you can probably see them yourself if looking up close when the fish hangs on the glass better than you can photograph it.

Also, I believe I see 4 rows of medial scutes. Also consistent with the ID I gave before. And at this young age, you can't use adult odontodes as a trait, so a little bit of faith is needed for now.

But as said in your older posts about your others, this species co-occurs with F. vittata (which has only 2 rows of scutes) so they are often intermixed when sold.

Cheers, Eric
When referring to medial schutes, what part is this referring to and how do you go about counting them? Sorry, maybe a dumb question, but little behind on the more complex anatomy on these guys lol
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

See this figure. It's from the key on the links provided above. Figs D, E, & F.
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:35 am See this figure. It's from the key on the links provided above. Figs D, E, & F.
OH!
Thats awesome, but I can definitely see why no one really identifies these guys in stores well haha

The ones at my store label them "twig catfish, Farlowella Vittata" but with a photo of a royal Farlowella haha... not even the same genus

Really neat how complex these guys are though.

Edit: okay looked at the photo showing his side view sitting on the leaf, I see 4 rows in that photo too.
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

MissNoodle wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:41 am okay looked at the photo showing his side view sitting on the leaf, I see 4 rows in that photo too.
That's what I saw too in your photo.

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:50 am
MissNoodle wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:41 am okay looked at the photo showing his side view sitting on the leaf, I see 4 rows in that photo too.
That's what I saw too in your photo.

Cheers, Eric
My other two were ID'd as Vittata and Platorynchus, where do they sit with the side scales?
They both have the 4 rows as well, is this correct for their species too?

My Vittata
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Platorynchus
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

MissNoodle wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:54 amMy other two were ID'd as Vittata and Platorynchus, where do they sit with the side scales?
They both have the 4 rows as well, is this correct for their species too?
I forgot that you had platorhynchus. I don't know how easy a juvenile will be to key out on parts like the snout length, which might change with maturity... (IDK), but certainly we can take another look at the abdominal scutes. So far you pics have been difficult to see the seams of the scutes. Your pics of the larger fish are ideal. Can you please try again on this juvie? Take your time.

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:29 pm
MissNoodle wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:54 amMy other two were ID'd as Vittata and Platorynchus, where do they sit with the side scales?
They both have the 4 rows as well, is this correct for their species too?
I forgot that you had platorhynchus. I don't know how easy a juvenile will be to key out on parts like the snout length, which might change with maturity... (IDK), but certainly we can take another look at the abdominal scutes. So far you pics have been difficult to see the seams of the scutes. Your pics of the larger fish are ideal. Can you please try again on this juvie? Take your time.

Thanks,
Eric
Youngster was out on the glass this morning! So got a clearer shot!
20201206_121704.jpg
I think for sure not vittata at least
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

Can you tell what's happening along the midline? I can't see the plate boundaries.

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:25 pm Can you tell what's happening along the midline? I can't see the plate boundaries.

Cheers, Eric
Its hard to see if its just a part in the side schutes or if there's some smaller chutes developing still...
For sure 2 middle schutes up top and 1 below... not unlike the Platorynchus, but its hard to make out even in person if there's just a gap or if there's a complete row there.

Cropped closer, one drawn with what I see for sure.
20201206_121357.jpg
20201206_121357schutes.jpg
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by bekateen »

Okay. Maybe needs a little filling in and growing?

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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:47 pm Okay. Maybe needs a little filling in and growing?

Cheers, Eric
Thinking so too. This fish is barely even 2 inches, doesn't even have the adult shape to the tail, lots of fry features on this little one still.
I'll post if I get clearer photos as he or she grows.
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

Posting this last one for now just because he's adorable and it's a good side view and tail pattern view.
20201206_133054.jpg
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

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Some more photos, another of the schutes
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Re: Juvenile Farlowella ID

Post by MissNoodle »

Okay so laugh at me... but I dont have good close eyesight and my camera isn't picking up the details like id like, so I pulled out a magnifying glass to take a closer look...

I'm fairly certain he's another Platorynchus! Now... if he's male that'd be awesome
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