Syno Notatus or Nummifer?

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gibbo
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Syno Notatus or Nummifer?

Post by gibbo »

A bit of a dilemma... I got three Syno's (labelled as Clown Syno's, which as you all know is Syno Decorus) knowing that they would be Notatus. I recently got the Baensch atlas series and my fish, according to that book, is Syno Nummifer (vol 2, p545). I Looked up Nummifer at Planet Catfish and it looks totally different. According to Baensch, Nummifer and Notatus are very similar and my fish are identical to the books Photograph. The Notatus that I have seen have very distinctive, round spots. My fish have softer, more 'blurred' spots and more 'oval' eyes. I know it sounds a bit trivial but I would really love to positively ID the fish. Are they both widely available in UK ( I'm under the impression that the Notatus are)?

Pictures: [img]http://photo.starblvd.net/gibbo/1-1-1-1 ... &ro=0&co=0
[/img]http://photo.starblvd.net/gibbo/1-1-2-1 ... &ro=0&co=1
[img]http://photo.starblvd.net/gibbo/1-1-3-1 ... &ro=0&co=2
[/img]http://photo.starblvd.net/gibbo/1-1-4-1 ... &ro=0&co=3

The third picture is a detail of the spots if it helps.

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gibbo
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Post by gibbo »


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Post by clothahump »

I would go with Notatus but I am sure someone with a bit more experience will be able to tell you more.

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Post by Dinyar »

Hard to tell based on the rear view photos, but looks like 2-spot notatus. S. notatus and S. nummifer look very similar and have more or less the same geographical distribution. S. nummifer has a somewhat deeper body. In my limited experience with these two fish, S. notatus is more common in the trade.

Post a head shot or side view of the fish and we can revisit the ID.

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Post by smilingSyno »

I'm wondering if that S. nummifer you are talking about is the same fish that my Dr. Axelrod's Atlas has as S. ocellifer?
A good way to tell the two apart is that S. nonatus has clear fins while S. ocellifer has spotted fins. As far as I can see from your pictures your fish has spots on his tail and fins so I would say he is a S. ocellifer. Also his shape and spots look exactly like the photo of S. ocellifer I have in my book.
Dr. Axelrod's Atlas doesn't have a S. nummifer so I guess it's the same fish and they call it S. ocellifer for whatever reason. But then again I just looked the two up in the Catfish Library and they look very different in the pictures there. So I don't know about S. nummifer and if it's the same, but I believe you have a S. ocellifer.
This is what my book says about S. ocellifer: ph 7, H 10, temp 25 C, size 30 cm, required tank size 300 liters, bottom dweller, easy to keep, good beginner fish, likes live worms, dim light, plants, rocks and driftwood.
Hope that helps you. Do a search on S. ocellifer and see if you find any more pictures.

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Post by smilingSyno »

Found a good pic of S. ocellifer at a czech site. Does your fish look like this?
Image

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Post by Sid Guppy »

No; the fish is most likely a notatus, not an ocellifer (nice ocellifer btw in the last pic)
too bad the head cannot be seen; because that's were you can see if it's a nummifer or a notatus best; they got a different shape of head, and different shaped eyes, whiskers etc:
Nummifer's got a head like pleurops, contractus etc; big eyes, blunt head, very short, thin whiskers.
Notatus got a more 'regular' syno-head, with long upper whiskers and a more pointed head, and normal eyes. (except when juvenile, but the pic shows a fairly adult fish)
my money is on three spot notatus.
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Post by gibbo »

Difficult to Photograph them but will try (with patience) to get a good head shot. From what has been said though they do have shorter whiskers and a more oval shaped eye. And we thought some Loricariids were difficult to ID :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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SYNO

Post by STINGRAY »

Hi, syno does look like notatus. These are very common in U.K. We sell for around £6 about $9. Syno Decorous is easy to identify by the trailing dorsal fin and is also readily available in U.K.

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Post by Tom »

Using Sands' Catfishes Of The World book as a reference I would say those are nummifer for 3 reasons. One of the best ways of IDing synos is the shape of the adipose fin. Notatus has a much smaller adipose.Numiffer has pattern on the caudal while notatus is clear. And lastly the term "clown syno" can actually refer to nummifer as well. When nummifer is small (2-3") it looks almost identical to decorus. The easiest way to tell the difference at that size is the number of bars on the caudal. Your 3 were probably smaller when the wholesaler got them and were misIDed at that point. Be happy- nummifer is rarer than the other 2.

Take care,
Tom

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Post by Silurus »

Using Poll's revision of <i>Synodontis</i> as a rough guide</i>, I would say that those are <i>S. nummifer</i>. Tom is right, <i>S. nummifer</i> has a larger adipose fin. The other important distinguishing feature is the shape of the cleithral (humeral) process, which is much broader in <i>S. nummifer</i> than it is in <i>S. notatus</i>. The fish in the photos have a relatively large adipose fin, and a broad cleithral process, therefore <i>S. nummifer</i>.

Heok Hee
Last edited by Silurus on Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Tom »

To add to the confusion-
The picture in Baensch's Vol. 2 is actually Synodontis congicus -a smaller(4'') Syno. The picture on planetcatfish is a very young nummifer. you can see the resemblance to decorus. Another difference is young nummifer have spotting on the head, decorus never do at any stage of their life.


Take care,
Tom

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Post by smilingSyno »

Why not just make this topic a poll? But seriously, there seem to be many different opinions. Some more pictures would definitely help. I have a question too: Can anybody tell me if S. nummifer and S. ocellifer are two different names for the same species? I'd like to know what you are talking about and my atlas (Dr. Axelrod) doesn't have S. nummifer.

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Post by Tom »

Ocellifer and nummifer are 2 different Synos. Ocellifer is from West Africa, nummifer is from the Congo(Zaire).

Take care,
Tom

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Post by smilingSyno »

So we have three species to choose from. That doesn't make it easier.
Thanks a lot for the info!

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Notatus/Nummifer

Post by gibbo »

Crikey, this is making be dizzy!!! :lol: :lol: :wink:
Will be rearranging tank in week so will remove one and photo it comprehensively!! :idea:

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Post by cryosi »

2 spot notatus look the same in aqualog syno book!

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Post by Dinyar »

Ok, let's try to get a few clear pictures of the head, humeral process and dorsal and adipose fins. If you have a 2.5 gal tank or large specimen container, net the fish into it aand take close-ups in the container. Otherwise, shoot the fish in the net (have someone esle hold it if possible). Don't worry about grasping the fish if you have to. Just don't drop it on the floor!

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