Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

A members area where you can introduce yourself, discuss anything outwith catfish and generally get to know each other.
Post Reply
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Last edited by Viktor Jarikov on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Shane
Expert
Posts: 4419
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:12 pm
My articles: 69
My images: 161
My catfish: 72
My cats species list: 4 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
Spotted: 89
Location 1: Tysons
Location 2: Virginia
Contact:

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Shane »

"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Exactly! Not looking to replace, only to augment and detail. Plus, one is often forced to suppose that some folks are allergic to stickies :)
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
racoll
Posts: 5253
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:18 pm
My articles: 6
My images: 182
My catfish: 2
My cats species list: 2 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 1 (i:0)
Spotted: 84
Location 1: Bristol
Location 2: UK

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by racoll »

I think the universal answer to "can I have fish x?" is almost always a resounding "no, not a good idea".

The reason people ask in the first place, is because they already have a doubt in their mind that is isn't okay, and they want reassurance that it will be. Their doubts usually prove to be correct. If someone knows that it's okay, they will generally never ask, and will just buy the fish they want.
JamesFish
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:03 pm
I've donated: $23.00!
Location 1: UK
Location 2: Kent
Interests: Fish, IT
Contact:

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by JamesFish »

The tank busters are a problem that's been left alone largely for a long time. I don't know everyone's size of tank but most people in the uk its 5ft or less (From the people I know). Exceptions do exist and I'm sure lots of people do have larger tanks but its a small % over here.

For things that get massive and require huge ponds or a zoo / aquarium to look after I believe the sale should be restricted or a proof of suitable accommodation required. That might help the fish and the purchaser as I'm sure if people were more aware of how demanding the bigger fish are they might think twice before purchasing.

Most people will purchase a fish at some point that will out grow their means to keep be it budget, size or maintenance required. The red tail cats are so cute at a young age but the growth and budget required to keep one is well beyond my means personally.
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

What stunting means: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/stunted-gr ... ted-lives/

Other stunting links:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ost6837900
http://www.cichlidae.com/askpam/viewtopic.php?t=121
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... sh-stunted
http://juliesgoldfishadventures.blogspo ... -fish.html
http://www.allabout-aquariumfish.com/20 ... ition.html

###################################################

The aim of the Big Fish Campaign (started in 2005) is to raise awareness about the problem of aquarium fish that grow larger than the vast majority of home aquaria can accommodate, and to promote responsible buying and selling of these larger species. http://www.bigfishcampaign.org/
Thebiggerthebetter
inatthedeepend
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:20 pm
My cats species list: 2 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 2 (i:0)
My BLogs: 1 (i:0, p:10)
Location 2: Uk, Cardiff

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by inatthedeepend »

Totally agree with the Big Fish campaign - I wasn't totally blind in my purchase of a Sailfin, but was only told it would grow to 12". Never mind. My fish is currently under 3" long, I'm sorting out a Fluval 1200 tank next week, and keeping an eye out for a 6' x 2' x 2' tank.

In an ideal world there would be some sort of licensing required to sell these fish, and an enforced code of conduct ensuring that people are told how big these fish get and the feeding costs.
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you all for your input.

I am not ungrateful... however, if we could, please, let's keep this a reference thread, not a debate thread. Conflicting references/links (pro and con) are fine but not personal views because this thread would not be short, efficient, and deflective.

Moreover, this topic has been disputed to death on so-o-o many threads and forums by two more or less extreme-view-holder groups: "sellers, with or without government involvement, must tell me / must educate me and all on what I am buying" and "the consumer must make educated choices". The gold is likely somewhere in the middle.

I have no power over the thread but all I can do is ask to not go there in this thread.

To keep with the spirit of this thread, here is some evidence that the ornamental fish trade is depleting our planet and sooner or later we might be deprived of all wild-caught fish in our hobby... like we needed another reason to start thinking about what we do and be responsible (sigh): http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =2&t=40144
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Another, IMO, useful thread. Note e.g., Oddball's post on page 2, second from the top describing the brown blood disease and the resulting organ damage and premature death. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 25-g/page2
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

TLkmDN has been making big strides (IMHO) in promoting responsible keeping of large pet fish: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... Care-Guide
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old ques

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

RTC-keeping experience of Arapaimag (Michael Bryce): page 15, post #149 http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... sh)/page15

The biggest was 132 cm.
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

INJAF (It's Not Just A Fish) article on Red Tailed Catfish – an aquatic big cat http://injaf.org/care-and-information/r ... c-big-cat/
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Oddball's informative (to me) info on stunting and its link to brown-blood disease / methemoglobinemia and the possibility of re-growth. Post #3 http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ng.658913/
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

https://aqadvisor.com/

Intelligent Freshwater Aquarium Stocking Calculator to help you setup correct stocks and filters for your aquariums and tropical fish.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Birger
Expert
Posts: 3869
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:04 am
My articles: 10
My images: 113
My cats species list: 49 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 35
Location 1: Edmonton,Alberta
Location 2: Canada

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Birger »

What I dont like about the big fish syndrome....I was at Ohio Fish Rescue awhile ago when a young man brought in a fish that was too big for his current aquarium, the thing is he was excited to get rid of that fish because he fully intended to go out and get another of the same to raise up. He and his father liked that there was somewhere they could dump it so they could go out and get another.
Birger
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Short,efficient (deflective) answer to the same old question

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

I don't know to such nitty gritty detail how Ohio Fish Rescue operates but this kind of reproach is sometimes thrown into our face too - that we are not a solution but a part of the problem and we are the encouragers of such practice.

The solution to this seems trivial, as we see it, albeit the implementation may be less trivial.

Our Fish Story Rescue's policy is that we aim our best to not aid and abet such practice. We take in fish once from someone and make sure the person understood their lapse of judgment, and if not, we explain it. Second time we would not take their fish. Believe it or not, the second times have never happened yet in our 13 years of rescuing, even though we most usually don't state it to their face that we won't help them the second time.

Overall, our experience leads us to believe that the case you describe above is exceedingly rare. If one out of 100 or 1000 peers is that abusive and dense-headed, it doesn't make the big-fish rescue practice ineffective, misdirected, or morally wrong whatsoever.

The exceptions to our theoretical practice (it is theoretical because we have never had to refuse a peer attempting the abuse you describe above) are not theoretical and do occur.

[1] They include peers who were already growing out other tank busters at the time of surrendering their rescues and who asked us to take the current grow-outs when they outgrow their tanks and we agreed.

[2] Another exception is peers who honestly had a plan A to upgrade properly and we agreed to be their backup plan B, in case life interferes.

[3] Final exception is peers co-sharing raising rare, expensive, and desirable fish for our Public Aquarium exhibition purpose.
Thebiggerthebetter
Post Reply