The great UGF controversy...

[jodilynn]

Hey all. I have a question and was hoping for some input from my fellow fishkeepers.

I have had fish for about 35 years. Now, back in the day, we always, always had undergravel filters.

Now they seem to have really fallen out of favor. Like, I get hollered at if I mention them when at my LFS (it's ok I have been going there since I was a toddler!).

But...hear me out, and chime in. I truly value people's opinions here, and no matter how much I know I also realize there are much more advanced keepers here than I will ever be.

IF the UGF is an auxiliary filter, not the only one, then what harm can it do? My thought is, the gravel is just laying there, why not tap into it's potential as an additional filtration source?

In the majority of my tanks, I run a HOB filter (larger than required), an internal sponge filter with additional biological media (with a moving media bed attachment, just for s and giggles), and a UGF with powerheads.

I also saw on Monster Fishkeepers that there is an "M Moe" technique which involves laying a bonded filter pad (I use Pinky Filter pads) over the plate which allows for even more biological filtration and keeps debris out of the plates, and eases gravel vacuuming.

So, I have a new 18 gallon tall and a 22 gallon extra tall coming to replace my two ten gallon tanks. Should I do the "M Moe" technique with the powerhead (I was only going to run 1 uptake, and I only have a 60gph powerhead because they are not huge tanks), with my Marina S20 HOB and my biological sponge filter?

Please comment.

P.S. This is the sponge filter I use that I can add additional media to (I usually use Fluval)

[Bas Pels]

I've had fishes for 42 years now, but never an under gravel filter. As far as I know, this is something which was hardly ever used in Europe.

Such a filter will, at the least, be harmfull for any plants - and all my tanks have Always been planted, unless they were filled with burrowing (and plant eating) cichlids. Burrowing alone is not a problem, cichlids are rather lazy and never dig from the top of a hill, and that is a good place for putting a plant.

But they will burrow somewhere elsae, and that will end anything the filter does.

On a sidenote, whatever the filter takes out of the water, it is still in the tank. Where you don't want it.

[MarcW]

I remember having an under gravel filter on a tank when I was very young, actually it was my parents tank I suppose! It was the only filter in the tank.

I haven't seen one in the UK for many years. Personally I have just used external canister filters and air powered HMF/sponge filters.

Although not an under gravel filter as such this thread may be of interest to you: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41038&hilit=deep+gravel

[TwoTankAmin]

UGF was, and likely still is the best biological media, possible, This assumes you use the right sized gravel. A UGF works best, imo, with reverse flow and a secondary mechanical filter. A planted tank with a UGF can work as long as one is not using substrate fertilizers.

With an RUGF instead of sucking crud down through the gravel and then under the plate where it can build up and require cleaning, you are tending to blow it back up into the water. By running a second filter set up for mechanical filtration, a lot of this crud will end up in that filter.

I say this having started out in the hobby with a UGF which was soon converted to an RUGF.

However, there is now a comparable solution in the form of a Hamburg Matten Filter )HMF). This use a massive rigid foam. The enables the filter to replicate a lot of what a UGF/RUGF dows, but in a smaller space. It also requires a whole lot less maintenance than any other filter I use. I have had 4 HMFs running for several years on pleco breeding tanks. To date I have only had to remove one to give it a good cleaning.

Of course the most effective filter is a planted substrate. But not every tank can handle nor does every fish keeper want to work with live plants. In this case the next best option would be a RUGF or a Matten. The later is a lot easier, imo and a lot less work. The are two articles on the Swiss Tropicals site which will explain all this better than I can do here:
http://www.swisstropicals.com/library/a ... iltration/
http://www.swisstropicals.com/library/mattenfilter/

The crux of it all is that massive media of the right sort will result in the most effective filter. Plus you can plant the tank as well if you like. But the more plants one has, the less bio-filtration one needs from a filter.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Reverse UGF for a 58,000 gal installed by a professional - Greg Wittstock and team Aquascape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XV24cdDdzY - just installed two weeks ago at Ohio Fish Rescue. This is part 4. If you want to see more, it is total of 6 parts.

[kvnbyl]

there is no reason an undergravel filter won't work but it has to be cleaned periodically and the gravel, unless you vacuum periodically will develop "dead spots" that will result in the formation of suphur dioxide that is very toxic to fish.

the junk that collects under the ugf plates in a traditional ugf has to be removed has to be removed. technically even though it's out of sight it's still in the water column. A high flow pump connected to the uplift tube will work to pull the mulm out.

A reverse flow undergravel is easier to maintain since the pre-filter on the powerhead (usually, but not always, a powerhead fitted for exactly what you want to use it for, most have pre-filters) will ensure that the water is relatively when it goes down the uplift tube be relatively clean.

you could hook a canister filter to it and have the water return thru the uplift tube but i don''t think you will get much bio - filtration from water that has already done it's work inside the filter.

you could also put the uplift tube from the hob filter in the uplift tube.

you seem to have have more than adequate filtration already, why give yourself a potential source of problems?

of course if you want to try it just for the heck of it then go for it.
that is part of the attraction of fish keeping, namely, seeing what works for you and your fish

[TwoTankAmin]

One warning about RUFGs. In order to clean the pre-filter on a reverse powerhead, the easiest way is to lift the whole thing out of the tank and then detach the sponge for cleaning. Which is what I did. (I normally net intake sponges with a fine mesh net to minimize how much gunk lets go back into the tank.) Then one day I decided to look up under the tank (it was on a metal frame type stand) and see what sort of gunk was there compared to when I ran it as a UGF.

When I looked, I discovered several baby panda cory and a few baby swordtails swimming around under the plate. This was the end of my using this type of filter. This problem was caused as the the uplift tube must end a few inches below the surface so the powerhead can be seated on it. I used the Marineland Penguin kit for this. I cannot find them for sale any more. I think this is because so few use UGF/RUGF. You will have to jury rig something to work with parts not to hard to fine. Here is what the old Penguin liked like with the kit:


That elbow sat atop the uplift tube. If you go this route, if you wish to remove the powerhead etc. to clean, have a way to plug the hole. Otherwise, unplug it and drop the water level below the top of the tube before taking it off.

[jodilynn]

Thank you for your input everyone.

Actually I checked under the plate on my 10 gallon and very little gunk is under there.

My 55 heavily stocked tank does have some gunk under the plate but it is not anything a good cleaning won't fix. I have two large 400 gph powerheads that can be reversed on that particular tank. But I also have two HOB, an internal and a moving bed filter in there, so again it will never be the only filter.

I am going to try the M. Moe technique on my 22 gallon high with a single uptake and a powerhead (I found a small one on Amazon that I believe will do the trick, it's rated at 250 gph but the reviews indicate it's not *quite* that powerful), a sponge filter/biological media filter rated for a 60 gallon and a HOB for chemical filtration.

We'll see how it goes!