building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[2wheelsx2]

Iron oxidizes quickly in water and iron oxide is stable in water. Plus iron is not very soluble in water, hence the need for chelates for people with planted tanks, so I wouldn't worry too much about, as you're doing plenty of water changes.

[Linus_Cello]

Did your phaleanopsis bloom on its own, or did you get it in spike/in bloom (they usually need a 55-60 degree F night time temperature to initiate spiking)? I would move the vandas closer to your light out put, as they need much higher light, and consider moving the phalaenopsis further away to make sure the leaves don't burn. And have you considered getting some phragmipedium orchids? You can grow them somewhat in the water ("wet feet.").

[Viktor Jarikov]

I didn't mean anything beyond what I said. Just something to be aware of and keep learning about.

I may be wrong but I think stainless steel almost never gets coated in ordinary applications. Neither does galvanized steel. It's an unnecessary expense and hence higher price tag for the manufacturer. Almost all metal coated in vinyl is the ordinary, lowest grade zinc-plated steel that starts rusting quickly if it wasn't for the coating.

[ElTofi]

anyway, Viktor, I've lifted it up of around 2 inches, right above water level... problem solved...

Linus_cello : considering the orchids...

Phalaenopsis bloomed for the third time in a year, but they indeed do much better from the moment I placed them "in the shadow" of another plant... that said, this "rule" suffers 2 major exceptions : the two pieces on the hanged root... they take full light (14'000 lumen, 6500 kelvin) and never did so well... you can see the future new flowers on the 4th and 5th pictures hereunder...

You're absolutely right saying Vanda need full light on ! they did much better (with a bloom coming mature in a few days-weeks) from the moment I placed them under the right LED spot. I will try to do the same for the 2 pieces on the left of the tank... they do receive full light, but from 5 feet away...

considering other "feet in the water" orchids, it's simply impossible, mainly due to the Myleus, which love to "taste" anything green coming into water...

more info these next days... thanks for your suggestions and comments.

[ElTofi]

@Linus_cello :

talking about orchids, I have :

- Dendrobium spp (picture of July 2012)
- an orchid from Java (which I can't remember the name... something javaensis) which makes wonderful new leaves, but no flower yet...
- 6 pieces of Phalaenopsis spp (hybrid)
- 4 pieces of Vanda spp (hybrid)

and a few other plants, like Tilandsia, Spathyphyllum, Philodendron gigantea ("Monstera"), Rhipsalis, Scindapsus, Asplenium, Echinodorus, Anthurium sp "Columbia" (wild), Bromeliae spp...

it's a fascinating (and new) world for me...

any suggestion for another plant which could cover my wall and give more "thickness" to it ?

[DBam]

I can't speak much to tropical plants. I was wondering if you're planning on adding a UV sterilizer at any point, or if there's a reason you've stayed from using one. Sorry to hear about the 2 rays.

[ElTofi]

I do have 2 UV sterilizers on the filtrations boxes... but the point is that bacteria still are in the sand, on the roots, into the rays themselves... UV sterilizers are efficients on bacteria in water, maybe on smaller volumes...

I had a talk twice with a specialized vet from a swiss importer and he identified the problem based on my descriptions :

- high production of mucus in about 12 hours
- rays stopped eating in 5-6 hours
- 24 hours later, they were dead

he told me it was a signal for a kidney dysfunction (caused by bacteria) and that the only efficient way to cure them was to feed them with "Baytril" shrimps in fact, it's a large spectrum antibiotic. Which I did... after having a talk with the Vet of my village (used to treat cows, horses, cats and dogs, and absolutely not fishes, moreover stingrays)...

but it was too late... the 2 little females were dead...

the other fishes (stingray male + every cichlid, Myleus, Arowanas or L-numbers) never seem to be bothered by anything at any time...

and they go on well...

[Linus_Cello]

Phragmepedium orchids are ladyslipper orchids from south america. You grow them in a plastic pot with drainage holes in the bottom, and submerge the pot part way (1-4 inches in the water) so they grow in "wet feet." There shouldn't be any roots that grow out of the pot for the fish to eat (if this happens, time to repot in a larger pot). About or a little more light than what the phals get.

Another hanging orchid you may want to consider are the brassavolas, specifically Brassavola nodosa. The has a wonderful fragrance that is strongest at night. Amount of light is just a little less than the vandas, more than the phals.

[DJ-don]

Such a magnificent project! it just comes to show what everyone dreams of doing

But just a thought, how have you managed to heat the tank in the first place? your electricity bill must be crazy as well

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Cissus discolor would be an option for the back wall, it is a fantastic climber in warm moist conditions. Another option would be a climbing Lygodium fern, L. japonicum is probably the easiest to find, and would be great.

You could try another Aroid for the back wall, There are some nice Philodendrons that might do. Philodendron scandens is easy and likes it wet, but my first choice would be P. melanochrysum, if you can get it.

I'm a big Gesnerid fan, and there are some lovely Columnea spp. that would do. C x banksii is an easy one or C. microphylla?

This is the Tropical pond in the Princess of Wales Conservatory at Kew Gardens, unfortunately it doesn't have the huge branch any more, but it gives you an idea.


cheers Darrel

[rob rensen]

Great pic of you're tank !! Beautiful !!

[ElTofi]

Phragmepedium orchids are ladyslipper orchids from south america. You grow them in a plastic pot with drainage holes in the bottom, and submerge the pot part way (1-4 inches in the water) so they grow in "wet feet." There shouldn't be any roots that grow out of the pot for the fish to eat (if this happens, time to repot in a larger pot). About or a little more light than what the phals get.

Another hanging orchid you may want to consider are the brassavolas, specifically Brassavola nodosa. The has a wonderful fragrance that is strongest at night. Amount of light is just a little less than the vandas, more than the phals.

Thanks for advice... I'll try to see what I can find in my area... In fact I'm more like looking for something "covering" for the wall... but a few more orchids should be fine too... I'll get 2 more pieces of Hoya spp "variegata" which do quite well under "my" conditions... and grow fast without being too demanding...

Such a magnificent project! it just comes to show what everyone dreams of doing
But just a thought, how have you managed to heat the tank in the first place? your electricity bill must be crazy as well

I admit it's not so easy to find every information if you didn't follow the topic from the beginning... in fact, the tank is heated by a by-pass circuit from my wood pellets home boiler. The 186 meters long circuit runs into the basement of the tank, drowned into concrete (one heating tube each 5 cm)... I have a temperature sensor which commands the opening of the 3 valves of the circuit from the boiler (or shut them). Moreover, I insulated the local which is into the basement of the house... even without heating, I can maintain 16°C (even in hard winter with -18°C outside)... So the need to heat is not so huge... The problem of humidity is regulated by a enslaved fan, which takes "ON-OFF" order from a humidity sensor (I can set up a value of humidity in %). The "wet" air goes directly outside the house, by a ventilation channel.

Hi all,
Cissus discolor would be an option for the back wall, it is a fantastic climber in warm moist conditions. Another option would be a climbing Lygodium fern, L. japonicum is probably the easiest to find, and would be great.

You could try another Aroid for the back wall, There are some nice Philodendrons that might do. Philodendron scandens is easy and likes it wet, but my first choice would be P. melanochrysum, if you can get it.

...cheers Darrel

Darrel,
thanks for your inputs... precious to me... I'll try to see if I can find the species you and Linus_Cello are advising me...

I'll keep in touch soon as I have 2 weeks holidays to "waste" my monney in GArden Center shops around my area... too many good ideas and not enough time to realize them all...

this tank took 15 months from the idea to his "filling with water"... and it goes on with improvement processes all the time... thank God ! that's what makes it so fascinating... sharing and improving...

[ElTofi]

Great pic of you're tank !! Beautiful !!

Thanks Rob, I think so too

[ElTofi]

a few more pictures of the green wall

[ElTofi]

a little video from this morning... ouch, arowanas do have teeth...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Beautiful. Having been bitten by my aros, I always use long twizzers for such feedings. They often seem to have to lounge at food, dead or not. One can use a heavy duty glove too, like a dish-washing glove.

[ElTofi]

handglove trick "approved"... I will... for sure

and they are only half their way to adulthood...

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Your plants look to be doing really well (the Vanda looks good), seeing its open basket makes me think you might like to try Stanhopea tigrina, a real favourite Orchid.

The Philodendron (behind the flowering Phalaenopsis), looks like it is probably P. melanochrysum, which I recommended previously. All vine like Philodendrons are easy to propagate from cuttings, particularly if they form aerial roots. Rosette forming species (like Philodendron bipinnatifidum), will eventually start to climb as well.

I thought of another suitable fern, the leather or Mangrove Ferns, Acrostichum, (either of A. aureum or A. speciosum) would be good.

Another possibility that would be easy to purchase would be the house plant Ficus benjamina, they are really "strangler figs" that start epiphytically and the produce great aerial roots in humid conditions. You might need to put it somewhere where you could remove it (if it became a bit "over-enthusiastic").

cheers Darrel

[Bas Pels]

As I'm thinking of putting a similar 'jungle' above one of my tanks - but Bromilids based and less Orchids - I'm quite curious about the needed lighting.

What lights do you use?

[rob rensen]

ouch indeed


very nice movie....great !!

[ElTofi]

I use Cree LED spots. I have 2, each producing 14,000 lumen at 6'500 kelvin. Each spot is a 2x70 W Led. Cree manufactures the Led and spots are built in China. They cost me around 400 euros each. But they are supposed to deliver light for more than 50,000 hours

[ElTofi]

Darrel,

I won't place here every picture of the "green" part of it, but if you have interest, I suggest you go on my FaceBook album "bac béton, la suite" at this address : http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 586&type=1

you'll find a few more pictures of the actual state of it all...

[Bas Pels]

I use Cree LED spots. I have 2, each producing 14,000 lumen at 6'500 kelvin. Each spot is a 2x70 W Led. Cree manufactures the Led and spots are built in China. They cost me around 400 euros each. But they are supposed to deliver light for more than 50,000 hours

Thank you

Quite a lot of light

[ElTofi]

sure, but just remember those 2 spots are supposed to give light for a 540 cm (wide) and 160 cm (high) "green" wall + the day-night sensation for fishes into 10,000 liters + the indirect light for the whole room...

I have to choose the place I put Vandas or Rhipsalis or "high demanding" plants... and as you may have noticed, the "less demanding" plants are on the sides. Spathyphyllum are on both far side of the wall. Phalaenopsis are on the wall (except the 2 now flowering ones)...

and quite a lot of light, sure, but for a very efficient amount of energy... I have a 1W = 100 lumen ratio which is, believe me, not that bad...

[ElTofi]

@ Bas Pels :

here you can see the spots I use on this tank for the green wall




and a last one from the Net... I didn't buy it on this webpage, but it's the same spot :

[rob rensen]

a little bit of jungle in you're home......

It looks great

[ElTofi]

another short "below water" video : not as pleasant as the yesterday's one, but still...

[ElTofi]

last day of Christmas Hollidays... 3 videos to share :

[ElTofi]

hi you all,

in spring 2012, I took a try on Brachyplatystoma juruense for this tank. I decided to place it first into my smaller 720 liters to avoid predation... I was unable to acclimate it and it died after 7 days of starvation...

Lately, I've been told there was a very beautiful arrival of wild

Brachyplatystoma tigrinum

around 10-12 cm through one of my usual suppliers... I'm going to take another chance on Brachyplatystoma spp...

do you have any good advice for acclimatation of this little guy (or doll), considering I'll place it into my 720 liters again. But this time, there will only be Pterophyllum and Brochis with it... no direct competitors for food or hiding places...

advices are welcome...

[ceh]

Now show us the electricity bill
jealousy is the only thing I feel now,beautiful jungle