building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[ElTofi]

so, everyone... I'm taking a couple of minutes to feed this topic with the job done until now... the complete topic is in French on AquAgora... Here are a selection of the highlights of this on going project...

In mid-May, remove of the 1600 liters (which I was unable to sell, even at mean price : too big for common people in my area )












Game Over for this one...

[ElTofi]

Then, the electrical work begun...




first bills...

[ElTofi]

a bit of thermical improvement was necessary... Wedi plates, very expensive !!!




Set up of the "overflow" for water...


to avoid the bad waste waters smells...

[ElTofi]

a bit more "isolation job" to prevent too big heat loss through the ground...




the heating system, coming from the heater of the house (4th part of it, one for each flor and the 4th for the tank) : 80 meters on 8.6 m2


mitigation valve...

[ElTofi]

the work goes on with covering it all by a liquid concrete...



2 weeks later (this Thursday), we begin to built the front wall...


left side...


right side...


here we are for today...


next week, the end of the coffer of the front wall, including the front glasses places... I must admit it's the first "delicate" work, as it must be very precise work and I won't be here to check it before filling it with concrete... I'm kind of stressed

some more pics next week...

[MatsP]

Very interesting.

--
Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Wow... You really put everything in on this one!

[apistomaster]

As a license structural construction inspector, retired, if I could not be present before and during concrete placement I would hire an inspector. The inspector's job is to verify correct placement of reinforcing steel, including minimum concrete cover, no unauthorized additions of water just to make the contractor's work easier and sample and test the compressive strength of the concrete mix design for assurance of compliance with the Engineer's approved concrete mix design and project specification.
I would use concrete plasticizers on a high strength,low water to cement ratio mix design. Use low slump concrete and add the plasticizer just prior to placement so the concrete will flow well and be easy to consolidate. You will produce a very dense, low porosity concrete that was still easy to place and reach every part of the form and be uniformly consolidated by internal vibrators.
The plasticizers are also called water reducing admixtures.
You can begin with concrete with only a two inch slump but after adding the water reducing admixture the slump will be increased to at least six inches without adding any water and end up with extremely dense and strong concrete of extremely low permeability to water. It will also increase it's resistance to wear and will provide an excellent surface to coat with nontoxic, two part epoxy of whatever color you desire.

[ElTofi]

thanks for your advice... It would probably be a good idea to proceed so...

I don't worry about the concrete quality (we agreed on a water-resistant-concrete, with fibres inside it), just about the places for the front glasses... I made plans, he read and understood, he has several pictures of what it should look like... And I'm not sure my presence would increase the job's quality...

it's just that I'd like to be here... just in case... And I probably will take dispositions to be at home when the work should be done...

[ElTofi]

front wall done ! A few pictures of the "wet work"... it's not easy to understand what it's all about, but anyway, I should have better pics of it in his "final form" after the removal of the coffer, from Friday night... maybe next Monday, at worst...

right part :


left part :


the tiny piece of wood to create the place to stick the glass (left part of the right glass, the small one 70x70 cm)


the right part of the left glass (the big one : 320x70cm)


the "inside" of the tank (behind the big glass) :


the "inside", right part...


And a last detail of the complex coffer with 3 wall sections on the length and 2 glasses inserted... The guy told me on the phone "very interesting, but thank God, it's not everyday"

[Champ-BKK]

very nice project.
Can't wait to see your fish.

[ElTofi]

removal of the coffer done !

from outside... a unbelievable quantity of nails...


from the inside



from the inside, the place for the big left glass


a close up of it, still have to clean it up well... and to correct a few details :


the small glass place, from the inside

[Blackhawker]

This looks like a cool project! Nice!

[ElTofi]

The guys finished the "concrete" work today...


with waterproof bands on the bottom of the pond


a perfect preparing job for the glasses places...


nice finishing on the front too...


Very glad of their work... 6 weeks to wait for drying completely, then :

- waterproof epoxy inside
- fix the glasses
- set the lights (LED spots, still to choose with Lumirium)
- set the gravity filters
- set the "arowana anti-jumping system"
- set the hardscape...

it should be going further from mid-August...

[apistomaster]

Do all the concrete wall joints have internal water stops embedded within the middle of each wall joint?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Larry, why would one need that? From all I've read, people speak of these at the bottom perimeter but never heard about the wall joints. Guess, I should read more. I don't think the OP could that anyway - there is only one wall that has been built - the 3 others are the existing walls of the basement, aren't they?

They say epoxy adheres the best to fresh concrete. Otherwise must etch it. I think 6 weeks is still fresh, right?

[apistomaster]

Hi Viktor.
Placement of water stops would be problematic where some of the supporting walls are CMU construction but at concrete to concrete it would have been possible to work them into the design. It is always best to incorporate water stops into new reinforced concrete structures designed to retain or prevent the intrusion of water. I would have used a different design in the first place but that does no good now. I would not have used the CMU wall and would have made an all new reinforced constructed tank.
The structural epoxy will bond well with six week old concrete. I have been called in to literally hundreds to a thousand of projects to supervise and inspect the installation of reinforcing bars that were left out, or improperly located and in seismic upgrades to masonry buildings using structural epoxies. I have written the technical specifications for a project involving the application of a protective coating of special hydrophilic epoxy coating in a major active component of a sewage conveyance system in the Seattle/King county area.
I do not think the age of the concrete matters so long as it is a sound concrete substrate. Most of that epoxy is actually an epoxy and silica sand blend.
Protective coatings or waterproofing epoxies are applied more like paint. The important factors are to have clean and dust free substrates. There are some which are designed to bond well to damp surfaces and have been used in projects like the one I mentioned, swimming pools and even major hydroelectric dams. The one i am most familiar with was called Aquatapoxy but I imagine that company has been bought out and the product renamed plus there are products of equivalent performance available by now.

[ElTofi]

Thanks for your concern and implication, it's very precious to me, even if I don't have the "specific" vocabulary to understand it all...

as Viktor wrote, the only "new" wall is the front one. The others have only been thermic isolated...

considering the wall joints now. On the joints of the floor level (horizontal), they have a silicon joint all around to allow a light move of the ground (heating will probably make the whole move a little). Above this silicon joint, there is a first coating of epoxy resin which "glues" a water stop band in fiber, embedded with another coating of epoxy to fix it.

That's what I try to show with this picture. You can guess the fiber band under the epoxy coating :


In a few weeks, I'll do the same "water stops" on the vertical joints, without the silicon under it, as the vertical joints are less demanding, as far as I know... I was unable to realize them yesterday as the both side have just been "reworked" with a final layer of finishing cement.

and I will use a product called "Mapelastic Smart" to realize the "waterproof" coating
http://www.mapei.it/referenze/Multimedi ... _TD_EA.pdf

I think 3 coatings will be enough for the underwater level, particularly on the joints. The abovewater level will only receive one coating layer.

This method was applied on the ponds and tanks in Papillorama in Kerzers, TierPark in Bern and Tropicarium in Servion, in my area... it seems to work from 5 to 12 years, depending on which set up...

The biggest "tank" I've seen with this method is the "Penguins pond" in Tropicarium. We are talking about a 60'000 liters tank, with cold water and a 2.5 m deep water column.

Apistomaster : your opinion would be appreciated (others too, of course)

[apistomaster]

Sounds to me like you are using a well time tested method and you should not have any problems.
Thermal problems are not an issue. Too small to worry about.

[Viktor Jarikov]

the concrete swimming pools are waterproofed with another layer of high-cement-content concrete coating but I don't know how they'd handle the areas around the glass windows exactly as I imagine there is more than one way

also, I've read about this too: http://www.sanitred.com/WaterFountain.htm

some say this does not work well at all despite big company claims, warranties, etc. Hard to find something that most would say is a real good stuff.

[ElTofi]

Again, I feel more confortable to use a product "used by others before me"... and with the Mapelastic Smart, I have at least 2 concrete ponds (tanks, pools) to show me it worked quite well...

this one, Tropicarium Servion, was made in 2005 with cement and "simple" white silicon :


this one, Papillorama Kerzers, was made in 2006, with Mapelastic and Sika Silicon :


I must admit I like others to do mistakes and experiences before I try myself... and sometimes (read it carefully ) I try to learn from others, more experienced and wise... not to do the same mistakes they (may) did before me...

[apistomaster]

I know that there are many patching and or smoothing concrete products are hyped a lot and often do not live up to the claims as many other products that are miracles in a can or bag so often don't.
The epoxy based products are usually the best. Some are designed to create a smooth surface to be covered with a more UV resistant epoxy coating. These leveling types bond especially well to a surface with a relatively high profile.

[ElTofi]

latest news...

yesterday, we put the main (and big) glass in place... Jesus, it was a big and good job !

a few pictures...










On Monday, I'm doing the same for the little right glass and I'll fill the lower concrete part, just to wash it from the dusts and chemical elements...

Somewhere around next week-end, I'll fill it to the top for washing and then again to begin the N2 Cycle... and first fishes will be in around late October...

that has been an adventure (almost done considering building)... and it will go on for years !

[Viktor Jarikov]

Invariably, everything I've read shows that the silicone is applied to the glass/acrylic first and then it is put in place. You are the first example where this steps appear reversed. Is it true and if yes, why? Not that there must be some very scientific reason behind it... I think it is all about air bubbles in the silicone layer and squeezing them out.

Did you insert stops/shims here and there within silicone so that water pressure does not squeeze silicone out with time?

Did you make sure to use fish-friendly silicone?

I thought you'd remove the masking tape right away, before silicone cures. Did you not?

[AleGer]

Great Job

[Matt30]

wow that is some project ,carnt wait to see it completed.
good luck mate

[Sam]

Wow.. this is a fascinating read

[ElTofi]

thanks everyone...

I had a few waterproof problems 2 weeks ago, because I had choosen not to install the MapeBand (waterproof bands on the corners)... Very bad idea ! I had to call a professionnal to make it all allright My job was good on plane surfaces, but the corners and the part behind the waterflow was such a mess... The pro corrected it very well (and for not that much)

Saturday, we placed the big glass, yesterday I put the "hardscape" elements into the tank while it's not "closed" with the last glass, much easier to access... and today, I'll place the small one.

From yesterday, I filled around 3000 liters just to see if this time, it's waterproof... it seems all right... the OASE BioSmart 14000 is running well...

considering silicone, it's not a "fish friendly" because it has a anti-fungus component inside... based on the advice of the waterproof professionnal (who is also an angler and a aquarist, lucky me ) this is not a problem... even if the first water will need to be changed, considering the total volume of it (more than 10000 liters) versus the little volume of silicone (10 tubes), it's safe... I used SikaSil-C and 3 persons told me it was "food grade" :

1. the Sika man
2. the waterproof professionnal (who built such a tank at home a few years ago)
3. another crazy aquarist in France who used the same product...

Next pictures and explanations in a few days, with the complete fill in...

see you...

[NielsV]

Ow my god. What a huge tank!

[sidguppy]

apart from waterchanges to get rid of the chemical residu, using a carbon filter is a good way of avoiding toxifications

both fungicides and the stuff that wafts out of hardening silicon glue are large organic molecules

these are easily mopped up with active carbon.

if you combine both methods (waterchanges and carbon filtration), you're quite safe

don't forget to replace the carbon on a regular base the first few months.
carbon's cheap; stingrays are not
;)