building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[matthewfaulkner]

Very impressive, this is something for me to aspire to. Was that two Panaque playing in the video?

Is the filtration only from the Oase box filter? Do you intend to use the planted baskets as a natural filter when it is 100% full?

[ElTofi]

yep, the two tiny things are Panaque sp L191... 13 cm TL... but under 100 cm water level and 160 far from the front glass along the back side of the tank. They do seem ridiculously small, don't they ?

At the moment, the Oase BioSmart 14000 Set is the only filtration media, but in a few weeks, when the reinforcement will be set up, I'll fill the tank to the top (125 cm water level) and the basement of 3 baskets will allow the bigger plants to take nutriment directly into the water. Anthurium, Spathyphillum, Asplenium and indirectly Phylodendron monstera gracilis (by the falling roots). Moreover, there are 3x17 liters of pouzzolane above the Oase pump, which take part to the bio filtration. And, of course, around 250 liters of "living" sand...

when Cichlas, Potamotrygon, Osteoglossum and Myleus will be adults, I'll have to set up a second filter (probably another Oase) on the right part of the tank.

any other question ?

[Viktor Jarikov]

well, not to rub it in, but since you asked: you answered only one question out 4 of mine.

[ElTofi]

Invariably, everything I've read shows that the silicone is applied to the glass/acrylic first and then it is put in place. You are the first example where this steps appear reversed. Is it true and if yes, why? Not that there must be some very scientific reason behind it... I think it is all about air bubbles in the silicone layer and squeezing them out.

Did you insert stops/shims here and there within silicone so that water pressure does not squeeze silicone out with time?

Did you make sure to use fish-friendly silicone?

I thought you'd remove the masking tape right away, before silicone cures. Did you not?

Quick stop and go on PC... and... ooooopssss.... I'll answer later tonight...

[ElTofi]

back on Planet...

considering silicone : in fact I think it's because of where I had to apply the glass. When you apply "glass on glass", you don't have the necessary place to insert your silicone... in my case, I had to place the glasses on the 4 mm shims, block the glasses and then, finally, stick them with silicone. We decided to push the air bubbles from one side to the other. First we attacked from the front, chased all the air on the inside of the tank. Then, we went on from the inside, filling in the spaces. And as the silicone was applied from both side, there is no air in between...

about the masking tape... We made an error... we removed it very quickly, and it was too quickly. Cause once we had finished the front join, doing the inside joint, the pressure on the glass (and on the lower joint) changed, causing a move of the glass on its setting. As the tape was already removed, the silicone overwhelmed on the front wall... Afterwards, we replaced the glass, corrected the pressure of wood sticks (between back wall and glass) and applied a second silicone joint right upon the first, but without masking tape... and that was quite a mess, as you can imagine...

as far as I'm concerned, I'm sure there has been enough silicone to ensure the joints (8 cartridges for the big glass, 3.5 for the small)...

This time, I think I answered each of your questions...

feel free to ask again

[ElTofi]

Hello everyone...

the tank isn't finished yet, but it's going on well. Last Thursday, I received adult Chalceus (3), Myleus schomburgkii (2), Myleus rubripinnis ? (2) and Metynnis argenteus (2) from a friend. Pics and vids to follow :

I tried to shoot them when introducing... but, it moves very wildly not that easy...



then, later, in the tank (sorry, poor light and very deep tank 160 cm wide)

Myleus rubripinnis ?

Chalceus macrolepidotus

Myleus rubripinnis ? (big) and Metynnis argenteus (small)

[sidguppy]

the big ones are Myleus, not Metynnis

the difference is easy:
Myleus has a long dorsal with many rays and a tiny adipose

Metynnis has a short dorsal and a long flat adipose

[ElTofi]

Thanks a lot for this ID key, it's been very usefull...

even if the fins are not very healthy these days (they were with turtles in a much smaller tank), what do you think of the big Myleus ? could they be M. rubripinnis ? I agree it's quite difficult to say with such poor pictures...

[nvcichlids]

lovely tank! super jealous

[ElTofi]

some news of the "big" tank...

I just got my Cichla kelberi and Myleus schomburgkii babies...

here are a few pictures of them, during acclimatation, yesterday afternoon...








And 11 Myleus like this one :


I always have to finish the upper part with the plexiglas doors and the reinforcement on the big front glass. That's why you don't have a complete picture of the tank, as built today... It should be done before Christmas...

I still have to get 3 Osteoglossum ferreirai soon. They should be perfect for me as a Christmas gift (Charly, if you read me )

And, of course, the stingrays, later on Spring 2012... I'll keep in touch, promised

[ElTofi]

Instead of Brachyplatystoma (or Pseudoplatystoma) which seem definitely too big indeed, I'm considering to home Pimelodus albicans.



Does anyone have an idea where I could find this specie ? In Europe, I mean...

[spip]

Hi Tofi,

Some weeks ago, the Pimelodus Ornatus was available in Germany. (still in the Stock 2 weeks ago).

Slightly smaller (only 30 cm) and coming from a warmer area.


I know it is not exactly what you are looking for but it could considered as a nice alterntive. I know how difficult it is to change your mind

[ElTofi]

not that hard, Spip ...

you just have to use the right and smart arguments... and sometimes (note the use of "sometimes"), I can change my mind... remember the Phractocephalus or Pseudoplatystoma dreams...

[mifune]

Hello,

sadly there are no imports from Argentina or Uruguay to Europe anymore, so the chances of getting P. albicans are very small. Since it is a subtropical species, it would not be well placed in your great tank anyway. I would also recommend P. ornatus, a species that will grow way beyond 30 cm - more likely 45cm. It is not very hard to find them, at least in Germany. And a Pinirampus or Sorubim would also be a alternatives to consider.

[ElTofi]

thanks for the input...

Several people already submitted me the Sorubim Genus... and I'm afraid, I don't like it too much... Can't really explain why...

I will go on searching for the right one... Pimelodus seem a good Genus to explore...

[sidguppy]

you can also check out the genus Aguarunichthys!

it's a fish that does get imported, so it's not like never finding it in the trade
it has all the looks of a huge Pim, but it doesn't get too big; with a total lengtth of 40 cm or a wee bit more, these fish are even more managable than the smaller Brachyplatystoma species

check out this beauty:

Aguarunichthys torosus

another species that unfortunately is quite rare in the trade, but is very hardy and has interesting behavior is

Rhamdia quelen

you might not expect it, but this is a freeswimming cruiser that prefers to slowly swim midwater and rarely rests on the bottom
it's quite peaceful, except to fish small enough to be eaten.

a third catfish in the 30-40 cm range is the highly unusual interesting

Pseudorinelepis genibarbis

this is a "pleco" with an active swimming lifestyle that should be kept as a group.
onmce adult, these also cruise the tank, they can do this because unlike most other Loricariids they have a functional swimbladder.
they're also very peaceful and unlike many other larger Pleco's, they're safe with freshwater stingrays!

another genus to look into is Ageneiosus, but these are not so easy to keep as the ones mentioned above.

[ElTofi]

helpfull answer... I'll check all this later this weekend, thanks a lot

[ElTofi]

Thanks again for you input, Sidguppy !

I took time to check your proposals... quite interessting, even if I wasn't smashed with the pictures and informations I could gather... Aguarunichthys torosus seems interesting indeed... I will try to see one "life" somewhere in Germany during my next "fish trip" there (somewhere in December).

I'm not convinced with Rhamdia but Pseudorinelepis looks very interesting... I saw a pair of them in a Potamotrygon tank a while ago and found very strange their way to swim in open waters... I now have the explanation, thanks...

Again, considering the building of my tank, I must take the fish living zone into account. Remember the bottom 50 cm are not immediately visible from the front glass in my tank.

I guess I haven't make my decision for this "additional catfish". I'll keep on searching till Spring 2012... I really prefer to see the fish "life in a tank" before choosing.

thanks again.

[ElTofi]

tonight's babies cichla handfeeding...

enjoy

[ElTofi]

teaser of the "big tank"... not 100% finished yet, but it comes to an end...

coming soon : the Arowanas

[ElTofi]

and another one, just for fun... Myleus & Panaque L191

[MatsP]

Looks very nice!

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

nice tank, great Myleus!

I spotted the Amazonian Carassius auratus in there....
test-fish for ammonia?

[ElTofi]

nice tank, great Myleus!
I spotted the Amazonian Carassius auratus in there....
test-fish for ammonia?

you get it right... at first... and then... I've been unable to capture them again... They were introduced in late September (10 fishes of 10-12 cm) and I could only get back 6 of them I tried the net (no chance in such a tank), the double big nets (impossible to move under 110 cm water level), the flat 1 meter square net (it could work with a 160cm net), the big fishing bottle ( ), a crayfish trap ( ), the simple fish line with a hook and a worm (good success )... But these 4 left are clever than I am ! and they get really big (26°C + good food, they almost explode)

I'll try later with a "carp line" (very thin and discrete)... the point is not to catch the others...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Fishing with hooks without barbs could get the rest of the goldies. Will not harm the fish if careful!

Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

already tried this... I took one of the adult Myleus cf schomburgkii, which is much more quick on living food (earth worms) than the goldies... I will try again, later these next days...

[OlePaulsen]

fish it out by night with a net ? When fish sleep. Just put a net in from of it and poke it on the tail. Then it will swim into the net in escape reflection. I use it on cichlids. Work very well !

[ElTofi]

not a bad idea... Never tried this one... But I guess the goldies sleep deep inside the tank, under the central roots... so they have 3 possible escape ways... left, right and above... I'm not sure it's the good idea ! But I'm gonna think about it... thanks.

[nvcichlids]

how about using corn as a bait? I hear that carp/goldfish go nuts for it as a bait.

[ElTofi]

not such a bad idea... I'll check this next week-end...