ID help, please. What did I buy - L201, contradens, or other?

[pleconut]

Uk prices is £15.00 I've seen some for sale I'm also thinking of getting. But there's often big discrepancies between US and UK when it comes to prices of plecos.
Edit- for a juvenile.

[bekateen]

Mine were retailing for $20 USD, obviously for mature or nearly mature specimens.

Jobro, I kept all three of mine and bought the fourth.

The lesson of this thread is be careful how you choose them.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

So now you got a pretty much safe pair of what you call L201 Big Spots and two oddballs of L201 that remain to be sexed? =D

For 20 bucks I would have gotten another one of the Big Spot females. Never hurtsto have plenty females, especially on wild caught's it's hard to find females.

[bekateen]

About my individual fish, yes - I suspect the new fish will become male, and if its head remains bulky then I will have a pair of big spots, a male L201, and the old small fish, which I suspect will be another female big spot. In that case, I'll sell off the L201 after some time (don't want to mix bloodlines of different types). But if this new fish is female, then I'm going with my logic and Occam's razor - these four fish are all the same type, and females are stockier than males.

About extras, I agree with your logic, except I don't have the tank space.


Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

I'd like to have an idea of the size they are sexable at.
Edit- The minimum size

[bekateen]

Teresa, when I want that info, I look at all the BLOGS for the species. Those list the minimum size of the animals potentially involved in the spawn (although not a guarantee if a large group is involved and some juvies are included).

My fish were obviously in the 50-60 mm SL (w/o tail) range, and I saw BLOGs with fish at 50mm, so I knew I was safe on size.

Be careful, contradens gets longer than L201, so I imagine that minimal sexable size is also longer. L201 "Big spot" appears to reach about the same length as ordinary L201.

Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

They are listed as L201, I could possibly end up in a similar predicament as you were, and the fish are being shipped, so unlike you I don't get to see them first. But the manager knows their plecos, and they have a very impressive stock list ordered in advance by them as the weather is warming up, some are from Glaser, so I have a bit of a shopping list so to speak. Obviously though a lot of research and consideration is going into it.

[Jobro]

Sexing Hypancistrus at 50mm can be quite challenging. If you are lucky and have a big group with some gravid females this may work out. But if they are in poor condition and you only have a few specimen to compare it will get pretty tough. I had really bad experience ordering Hypancistrus online by sexes. They were so wrong. I didn't get a single female... I would want to see them in person.

[bekateen]

Short video of the fish. ID seems to point to L201 big spot, although one male may be just L201 (although the difference in spot size among individuals is very subtle). Fourth specimen is not visible in video.

Cheers, Eric

Hypancistrus L201 big spot, new acquisition

[bekateen]

Here's a still photo of all four fish, all hanging out on the front of my home-made multi-cave stone. It's funny that none of these hypans will fit all the way into any of these caves if they go straight in, but they can fit in if they curl in sideways (the caves are large enough internally to allow this). So I often find all four fish piled into this big stone cave complex, most with a little tail sticking out. There are two "normal" caves available in the same tank, and so far these are mostly ignored. Go figure.

[bekateen]

Fifteen month update: Got nice photos of one of my original males with well developed opercular odontodes. Females are giant (in girth, but still same length as males) and about to burst, but no spawning behavior yet. Today I removed the last of the L066-L400-Rio Xingu hypans from this tank and I added three smaller L201 big spots which I got from Aquarium Glaser last month (here: California received a shipment from Aquarium Glaser! ), now out of QT. That brings my group to 7.

Cheers, Eric

[b.reder]

Eric- Why not go back to L200? 50-50 chance any guess will be correct! Save your fretting for taxes or politics.
Please tell me how you get such great pix!

[bekateen]

Please tell me how you get such great pix!

I do like taking pictures of them. Personally, I don't think most of my photos are all that great, so I really appreciate your compliment. Thank you. I suppose the answer to your question is that I use a Windows phone... As phones go, it's not that great, and certainly among the least popular of major smart phones. But I think the camera and even better the video is terrific!

Why not go back to L200? 50-50 chance any guess will be correct! Save your fretting for taxes or politics.

Yeah, I saw that thread too. Trading one kind of angst for another... I've never had L200, and I'm not ready to start - besides, they grow too big for my tanks. Nope, no thank you, I'm good.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

I do like taking pictures of them. Personally, I don't think most of my photos are all that great, so I really appreciate your compliment. Thank you. I suppose the answer to your question is that I use a Windows phone... As phones go, it's not that great, and certainly among the least popular of major smart phones. But I think the camera and even better the video is terrific!

I take all my pictures with a windows phone as well

[bekateen]

I take all my pictures with a windows phone as well

Johannes, you and I might be the only people on the planet who bought Windows phones.... And that's why Microsoft discontinued the Lumia phone line.

I guess we will need to wait for the Surface Phone to become available before we consider future replacements. Honestly, I wish they'd go back to the old Windows 6.5 phones - the cameras weren't as good, but the phones were awesome. They ran a phone version of Win XP with a stylus. I loved that phone.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

They just need to really get the system more stable I think. It sometimes runs hot and stuff like that for no reason. Or apps just close. But I do see that on our business iPhones as well sometimes, so I guess they all got some issues.

Haha, when they said they discontinued the line, I went straight to get a Lumia 950 before it's too late

[b.reder]

Eric- You're in Stockton and I'm down in Oceanside (San Diego.) I have had good luck ordering from www.freshwaterexotics.com, the wetspot (now that's my sense of humor!), and gunpowderaquatics. Their plecos have been healthy. Where else should I look in the future?
-Barry

[bekateen]

Hi Barry,

I understand that local availability of unusual species can be limiting; I've experienced that too in the Stockton area. And yes, all three of the sellers you mentioned are good and reliable. Of those, I've only bought from WetSpot, but even then I did so while driving through Portland - I didn't place a mail-order from them.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of buying fish by mail. My main put-offs are the high cost of shipping fish when it's done well and also I've had some trouble in the past with the local delivery service: The fish made it to my town safely, but the courier who brought them to my house chose not to leave them; he kept the box and was going to put it in their warehouse over the weekend (which would have certainly killed the fish). Driving all over town and making phone call after phone call, I chased the courier around for almost an hour playing tag with them at different facilities before I finally caught someone (after hours- they should have been closed) and recovered the fish without loss.

If you're trying to get some unusual fish, I would prefer to recommend a different approach for you. What I did was I developed a really good relationship with two or three of my LFS (within 70 miles of my house), and they are now willing to special order novelty fish* for me from importers and wholesalers. Since my fish are delivered with a larger order placed by the LFS, my personal shipping costs are much more reasonable. The final prices I pay in store for fish like

Hemiancistrus guahiborum

,

Hypancistrus debilittera

, the

L201

in this thread,

Panaqolus albivermis

are very comparable to prices on Aquabid, but without the shipping expense and no risk of fish dying in transit. The other element that makes this so good for me is that one of the LFS owners decided to apply for and pay for his own import license. So he is able to place orders from wholesalers, exporters, and breeders all over the world. The shipping is more than within the USA, but there are ways to make even these international orders cost-effective. I'd encourage you to try the same approach. You're in the San Diego area; there must be some good LFS within 60-80 miles of your house. Can you think of any that might fill the bill?

The other thing I did is I joined a local fish club. I've fostered relationships in and out of the club with other catfish keepers, and I actively try to recruit new members who are interested in catfishes as I am. I've been able to purchase some good plecos and corys in the club auctions from other hobbyists who breed or own the species I desire. You have a fish club in the San Diego area. Are you a member?

Does this help? Or did I misinterpret your post?

Cheers, Eric

* By novelty fish, I mean catfish which are not common in LFS but are occasionally available from the big importers/wholesalers. I do not mean the really rare fish that are only available from people who are personally involved in importation or breeding (like some of the super rare corys and plecos). For now, those are still unavailable to me, but since my tanks are brimming with fish, I have no sense of deprivation and I'm really content right now... unless you can get me some male

Centromochlus orca

- yeah, I need those.

[b.reder]

You're in the San Diego area; there must be some good LFS within 60-80 miles of your house. Can you think of any that might fill the bill?

Yes- I have a good relationship with several.

You have a fish club in the San Diego area. Are you a member?

No but I have sent an e-mail to ask if they are still functioning

unless you can get me some male Centromochlus orca - yeah, I need those.

Them Centromochlus- them there's some good eat'en. Seriously, those C. orcas (2") are very interesting. Where did you get yours?
Thanks! -Barry

[bekateen]

You have a fish club in the San Diego area. Are you a member?

No but I have sent an e-mail to ask if they are still functioning

Their website says they had a meeting two weeks ago: http://sandiegotropicalfish.com/meetings/

unless you can get me some male Centromochlus orca - yeah, I need those.

Them Centromochlus- them there's some good eat'en. Seriously, those C. orcas (2") are very interesting. Where did you get yours?

My LFS imported them from Germany, from Aquarium Glaser. I bought all that arrived, but they were all females... Ugh. I'll ask the LFS if they are willing to try again, this time for males. But the shipping is high enough it's not a given on the part of the LFS; the order has to be cost-effective for them too.

[b.reder]

How many can you safely house in a 35 gallon tank?

[bekateen]

I don't know. I have 7 in a 20 gal long and I bet I could raise that to 10 fish safely at their current size, maybe more. But I wouldn't want to risk it as they grow - I read they get about 4" long TL.

[bekateen]

L201 UPDATE:

This morning I woke to find this. It's the first time I've ever found my L201 trapping. Let's see if they can get the job done!

Cheers, Eric

[Kenneth Wong]

Looks very promising.

[bekateen]

Thanks Kenneth. I hope so, but I have reason to doubt. After doing a "head count" in the tank, it's clear the fish trapped inside is one of my recently acquired L201 from Aquarium Glaser. They are much smaller than my older fish and I think they are too young to spawn. So maybe the older larger male is eager, but I don't know if the younger female is ready. If she is, that's terrific. If she's not, I won't be surprised.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

Best luck with the spawning, Eric.

Seems to be the Contradens time. My Pair got me some fry just 1.5 weeks ago while I was on vacation in Spain

My female is enormous, but I only got about 10 youngsters from her. She is still very fat, so I am expecting some more soon.

H. Contradens Fry

[bekateen]

Thanks Johannes, and congratulations on your contradens. Unfortunately for me, it turned out to be a "no go" this time. The male trapped the other L201 in his cave for at least 17 hours, but this morning she was gone and he had no eggs.

The nice thing is that he has discovered how to trap a female. And like your contradens, my females are fat as pigs right now (okay, they always are, but I'm not judging them. ). So hopefully next time the male will pick a mature female and they'll get it done right.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

You should try daily waterchanges of 30-50% for 4-7 days. This is what I did before I left for vacation and it triggered their first spawn and since the fry had already hatched when I came back after 7 days, they must have spawned right after the waterchanges (and not just because I was finally leaving them alone for once )

haha, yeah some plecos are real pigs

[bekateen]

And more good news: Last night I was able to find the fish that was trapped in the cave. Indeed it was one of the smaller specimens, but it was definitely female: It had the same swollen region around its genital papillae that my larger females have, and just like I've seen on my Panaqolus maccus, P. albivermis and L397. So even if she's small, it's great to confirm that she is a she, and that she's getting into condition.

I fed them a big serving of minced shrimp last night (normally I feed them whole shrimp). They were out and about this morning and most of the shrimp was gone. They seemed to eat the minced shrimp more readily than whole (I may make a habit of mincing the shrimp as long as it doesn't result in overeating meat leading to bloat).

Regarding their extra activity... Maybe it's the total eclipse. Maybe it's the shrimp. But hopefully it gets them going.

Will do more intense water changes as time permits. I'm swamped at work right now, so can't do too much. /

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Finally, they spawned!

The male is one of my original four fish. The female is one of the individuals imported from Aquarium Glaser in Germany.

For those of you who've followed this thread from the start, the two females I bought in my original group have grown bulkier and may well indeed be

Hypancistrus contradens

instead of

L201

big spot. Support for this theory is that my males, purchased at the same time as the bulky females, have never shown much interest in the bulky females. But within months of getting the new female L201 big spots from Aquarium Glaser, both my original males got their games on and started trapping this same female at one time or another. I've probably seen her trapped, sometimes for 2-3 days at a time (maybe more), about 6 or more times since last summer.

Needless to say, I'm very happy. This is my first successful Hypancistrus spawn.

Let's just hope dad, as a new, first-time dad, doesn't kick his eggs out or eat them. I'm going to leave him alone and give him some privacy so I don't bother him.

Good luck, little guy!
Cheers, Eric

Direct link to YouTube video: Hypancistrus sp. L201 big spot spawned!