"aged beef"?

[b.reder]

I was brought up with the belief that catfish like old (spoiled) meat. Take a hot dog, age it in the back yard a few days, wipe off the maggots, and you have the best catfish food. If true, does it apply to plecos too?

[Lycosid]

I was brought up with the belief that catfish like old (spoiled) meat. Take a hot dog, age it in the back yard a few days, wipe off the maggots, and you have the best catfish food. If true, does it apply to plecos too?

This probably attracts ictalurid catfishes (our North American variety) pretty well because it gives off a strong odor. However, plecos are loricariids, a totally different family with a very different digestive system. Notably, many loricariids are far more herbivorous than most other catfishes, so some aren't even meat eaters.

[bekateen]

No, I wouldn't feed that to plecos. Can't validate independently, but many here and elsewhere have advised me that plecos should not be fed regularly with meats other than fish or invertebrate (shrimp, clams, etc.) in origin. Historically, I believe this focused on beef heart, which was a favorite back in the 1970s. Supposedly, a chronic diet of beef heart, etc., can lead to digestive problems, bloat, etc.

A few people suggested that the amino acid ratio in the proteins might be the cause, others have told me it had to do with iron content. I don't know.

Cheers, Eric

[Bas Pels]

It could be more, but warm bloaded meat has at least 1 problem - the fat in it will not melt properly.

Around our cells we have a membrane, which consist of mostly modified fatmolecules, with some additions, such as cholesterol and proteins - but in order to funtion, this system needs te be on the edge of solid and liquid.

Mammals have a bodytemp of 37 C, bird higher, and our fish might be living in water of 32 C, but most are far cooler. A membrane that is near liquid @ 37 C will, obviously, be fully solid @ 30 C or less. And thus harder to digest.

I don´t think the amino acid ratio will be of much importance, generally speaking, this ratio in beef will be more like what a pleco needs than one will find in algae. That´s why our body is able to convert many aminoacids into others.

Proteins are made from 20 different aminoacids, and only 8 of them are essential, that is, we are unable to make these, so we need to eat them. But we can convert them into any of the other 12. I´m rather certain this also goes for fish.

[Jobro]

It could be more, but warm bloaded meat has at least 1 problem - the fat in it will not melt properly.

Around our cells we have a membrane, which consist of mostly modified fatmolecules, with some additions, such as cholesterol and proteins - but in order to funtion, this system needs te be on the edge of solid and liquid.

Mammals have a bodytemp of 37 C, bird higher, and our fish might be living in water of 32 C, but most are far cooler. A membrane that is near liquid @ 37 C will, obviously, be fully solid @ 30 C or less. And thus harder to digest.

I don´t think the amino acid ratio will be of much importance, generally speaking, this ratio in beef will be more like what a pleco needs than one will find in algae. That´s why our body is able to convert many aminoacids into others.

Proteins are made from 20 different aminoacids, and only 8 of them are essential, that is, we are unable to make these, so we need to eat them. But we can convert them into any of the other 12. I´m rather certain this also goes for fish.

appreciated information, thank you.

[Lycosid]

Proteins are made from 20 different aminoacids, and only 8 of them are essential, that is, we are unable to make these, so we need to eat them. But we can convert them into any of the other 12. I´m rather certain this also goes for fish.

While this may be what you meant, it's probable that plecos have essential and non-essential amino acids but they probably don't find the same set essential and non-essential. Rats have ten essential amino acids, and they are one of the few animals where it's been studied.

This is an entirely pedantic aside with no actual practical value. However, if anyone has data on essentiality of amino acids in non-human taxa that could be interesting.

[Bas Pels]

Lycosid, while I don't like you using pedantic, you are right I was humanizing

[pleco_breeder]

In fish, the essential amino acids vary based on species. Even within trout and salmonids, easily the most heavily studied, differences in dietary requirements exist. This is one of the reasons it's often easiest to recommend a well-rounded diet. Having said that, Bas Pels is correct in his mention of fats in the diet. Not so much based upon the biphospholipid cell wall, but in the fat cells themselves. Not only are they more dense than the fish will be able to digest, they also oxidize much more quickly than the oils which are more predominant in cold blooded fishes, insects, etc... This puts a heavy strain on the digestive system which in itself is substantially different than most terrestrial beings. There are very few species of fish which have a true stomach, and most of those known are deepwater oceanic.

I hope I didn't put too many details into this, but wanted to make sure that it was understood why it's not a good idea to feed mammalian meat. If you want to add meat to the diet of a fish, the best recommendation I can give is to use aquatic species such as shrimp, fish, scallops etc... Anything which would not be included in their natural diet is only likely to lead to digestive problems as their body won't really be accustomed to how to digest it properly.

[Lycosid]

Lycosid, while I don't like you using pedantic, you are right I was humanizing

I meant that my aside was pedantic, not that your note was. I guarantee you that this is a word that many people believe describes me.

[b.reder]

O.K. So let's throw out beef. Are aged shrimp or gold fish more attractive to plecos then fresh ones? I have been toying with this in that in the morning I remove partially eaten shrimp (L240 tank), allow it to mellow outside of the tank and then refed the next night. So far I have no results to mention.

[pleco_breeder]

I don't expect that aging is going to work in your favor, and may actually have an opposite effect of what you're wanting. It definitely can't be doing any wonders for water quality. As for L240, I had rather good results with feeding them, as well as other Leporacanthicus, with scallops. Don't overdo it though because scallops do have a rather high oil content. A couple of times a week really does bulk them up though.