The L134 pleco is NOT about to be banned, it has not been banned recently, it is not in consideration for ban, and it's not exactly rare, either. They are still being shipped out of Brazil by the hundreds. So seeing this is frustrating! All of these people claiming they are about to be banned to justify higher prices need to STOP. It's really making me mad to see them trying to take advantage of people like that! Finding an actual list of species banned from export isn't easy. I once tried to look it up a few years ago and spent HOURS following links, only to get some broken Portuguese translation that barely mentioned anything.
So these sellers are taking advantage of a lack of public information, and using it to charge over $150 for a fish they paid $18 to get (AFTER fees). Grrr....
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, in the use of the attributions
confer on items I and II of the sole paragraph of art. 87 of the Constitution, and
the provisions of Law 10,683, dated May 28, 2003, Decree No. 8,975, dated December 24,
January 2017, and Portaria no. 445, dated December 17, 2014, and that contained in the
Process 02000.002782 / 2014-51, resolves:
Art. 1 The restrictions set forth in art. 2 of Ordinance 445, of December 17,
2014, shall enter into force on April 30, 2018, for the species listed below:
I - Cardisoma guanhumi (guaiamum);
II - Lutjanus purpureus (snapper);
III - Sciades parkeri (gurijuba);
IV - Genidens barbus (white catfish);
V - Scarus zelindae (parrotfish);
VI - Sparisoma axillare (parrotfish);
VII - Sparisoma frondosum (parrotfish);
VIII - Scarus trispinosus (blue buddha);
IX - Leporacanthicus joselimai (acari, cascudo, ounce);
X - Parancistrus nudiventris (acari, cascudo, blue ball);
XI - Scobinancistrus aureatus (acari-da-pedra);
XII - Scobinancistrus pariolispos (acari-da-pedra);
XIII - Peckoltia compta (acari, cascudo, picota oro);
XIV - Peckoltia snethlageae (acari, cascudo, white flap); and
XV - Teleocichla prionogenys (stone ladybird).
Paragraph 1. In this period, their catches are accepted, the landing and the respective
marketing, provided that they are carried out in accordance with current regulations,
under the terms of § 6o, art. 27, of Law 10,683 of May 28, 2003.
Paragraph 2. Existing stocks or stocks of the species listed in items I to XV of art.
1 of this Ordinance shall be declared until May 5, 2018, in any unit of the
Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources-IBAMA.
§ 3o Specimens, parts, products and by-products contained in declared stocks
according to the previous paragraph may be marketed until June 30, 2018.
Art. 2 This Ordinance shall enter into force on the date of its publication
Erica Masters, aka Ltygress is not particularly well informed. Funny she also claimed to open a pet store, import fish from Brazil, yet she lives month to month by selling 'stuff' on Ebay. Now she is pre-selling L134 on Ebay. I wonder how many hobbyists she is trying to scam this time.
gehandylan wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 19:50
Paragraph 1. In this period, their catches are accepted, the landing and the respective
marketing, provided that they are carried out in accordance with current regulations,
under the terms of § 6o, art. 27, of Law 10,683 of May 28, 2003.
Taking the first paragraph out of context and not including the second paragraph is extremely misleading.
Yes they are legal to export now. But that ends June 30, 2018 (6.5 months from now). So it is entirely reasonable that the prices would go up for a highly desirable fish that has a limited (and soon to be extremely limited) supply.
It is all supply and demand. Buyers are anticipating a lack of supply so demand is going up. The fish is only worth what people are willing to pay and right now there are enough people willing to pay high dollars for them.
My guess is that many of them are anticipating even higher values for captive raised specimens in the near future and are looking to obtain breeding stock as a possible money maker. There are plenty of precedents in the hobby for this.
The only thing the entire second paragraph states is that all of those fish need to be "declared" and are allowed to be marketed until June 2018. So if anything, this is a statement saying they are on an "allow" list, not vice versa. Furthermore, Article 2 states that it should be entered "into force" on the date of it's publication. That actually means that IF a ban were to come of this, it would already be enabled, as of the date this law was typed up.
But I did more digging and asking around with the importers (as well as one Brazil native I know of that isn't in the fish industry, but can look up and translate a lot for me) and there is one more issue. It's already three years old. While it states December/January 2017 in part of it, the actual date it was typed up and published is 2014. Back THEN there was a lot of talk of the L134 pleco being banned. But since then there have been modifications and changes to the list - as well as the law itself.
They are still allowed until June 30, 2018. After which they are banned. The market is responding to an anticipated shortage and prices are going up.
If there have been modifications to the law I have not seen them. But please feel free to research and post the changes here. The market can only respond to public information. If all the public information says that they are going to be banned, it doesn't matter if the law has been changed removing the ban. The market only responds to the public information.
Existing stocks or stocks of the species listed in items I to XV of art. 1 of this Ordinance shall be declared until May 5, 2018
This seems to say that although sales are allowed until June, that only applies to fish declared as inventory by May 5. If that's correct, then May 5 would be the last legal date to capture and declare new fish. No new fish can be collected after May 5.
TBH, L134 are the most breed peckoltias and there should be plenty of tank breed available. I hope people will go for the tank raised rather than trying for illegal imports and putting huge hardships on these wild plecos like they do with L46.
This boils down to Caveat Emptor. Fish buyers who fail to educate themselves properly will find themselves overcharged or scammed.
Social media will foster such scams while sites like Planetcatfish will have the facts that can prevent them. When folks become too lazy to do their homework, when they rely on fast answers on social media for their knowledge, they will get exactly what they are "asking" for, and that is screwed.
It is not our job to police all of this stuff, we are hobbyists for the most part. If I am asked my opinion concerning the price of something, I am happy to put my 2 cents in when I am asked, but I am unwilling to become the fish police.
Somewhat off-topic
I consider the authorities in Brazil, especially the elected government to be extremely corrupt and self serving. I feel sorry for the Brazilian people having to live with the system in place there. The result is I neither respect nor trust the government's judgement and regulations. This is especially true in relation to the native peoples and to the wildlife and ecosystems that were in place for a very long time and are being ravaged. There can be a difference between what is morally/ethically right or wrong and what is legal or illegal. As always, this is just this person's opinion.
“No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Okay, basically, what I've been trying to say about that entire law that was copied and pasted, is that the law is not banning the fish at all. It is ALLOWING them. This is because Brazil does not work with ban lists. They only work with "Allow" lists. Any actual pleco importer will know this. So any fish NOT on that list, is not allowed to be caught , sold, and exported. The fact that L134 is ON that list, means they are NOT banned - quite the opposite actually. That's why I said in my post further up that the one paragraph states everything.
But again, it is three years old, and the law and list have been changed and updated since then. That's why I can get things like L059 (Ancistrus Hoplogenys) and L273 (Pseudacanthicus Sp.) - neither of which are on that list shown above but are allowed NOW. And if this list - created in 2014 and "took effect immediately" - does not expire until next year, then the most up-to-date law/lists won't expire for a while yet. That being said, we are totally safe from the L134 being "banned" anytime soon. The ONLY fish they are thinking about removing from the list at all, is the L014.
You seem to be very misinformed about how legalese works.
The regulation went into effect when it was published in 2014. The implementation date of May for the end of catchments, and the June 30th date of end of export are within the regulation.
Nobody is debating that they are not legal to export now. We have already established this and I am not sure why you keep bringing it up.
What the regulation clearly says is that they will be illegal to export as of June 30, 2018.
If there have been changes to the law saying that they will not be removed from the IBAMA white list then please provide it. Because otherwise, all we have is your word on it which is in opposition to the published government regulation. And that simply is not good enough.
