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I seem to have found an incubation system that works in this tank.

I treated spawn #7 in the same manner as spawn #5: I left dad in the pipe with his eggs in the aquarium for 7 days, then moved the whole pipe (with dad and eggs inside) into a fry basket with a cluster of oak leaves inside, positioned in front of powerhead outflow. A few eggs hatched on day 8. The remaining eggs hatched on day 9. In total, I counted 150 fry, plus more which I didn't attempt to count as they were hiding in a cluster of oak leaves. Perhaps significant, the dad of spawn #7 is the same dad as spawn #5, the red male.

As an update on spawns #5 and 6, they are growing well but I'm losing 3-5 fry per day. I wouldn't expect all the fry (nearly 200 from both spawns #5 & #6) to survive, but this mortality seems high to me. Maybe not.

Cheers, Eric

With your eggs fungusing when removed from the cave, have you considered meth blue in a separate hatch tank? I have BN and leave the eggs with the male until hatched and egg yoke consumed.

fishguy1978 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 21:12With your eggs fungusing when removed from the cave, have you considered meth blue in a separate hatch tank? I have BN and leave the eggs with the male until hatched and egg yoke consumed.

The eggs are really difficult to remove from the tubes/pipes. When I had the 1st spawn, the spawn where I removed the entire pipe without dad (instead of leaving him in the tube with the eggs), I placed the tube in a 2-2.5 gal aquarium with a sponge filter. That tank did get a dose of methylene blue. But many of the eggs fungused early and all the eggs died eventually. I think it could be worked out, but since my current method has worked well twice (leave dad with eggs in pipe and isolate the whole pipe with dad inside), I'm going to keep on doing this for now.

One thing I've been pondering is why don't the eggs fungus in dad's care? These whiptails are not like plecos - they don't fan the eggs, they don't move the eggs and dribble or tumble them as some dad plecos do. No, rather they just sit on them. I wonder if there are anti-fungal chemicals in the slime secretions from the father's belly which, when combined with (I speculate, since I haven't seen it) occasional cleanings with dad's lips, serve to keep the eggs fungus-free.

I would imagine that methylene blue or some other chemicals might suffice if needed but only it's only needed if you can remove the eggs from dad and maybe even get them free from the tube wall (e.g., using sodium sulfite to dissolve the egg jelly).

Cheers, Eric

Ah, I should have read more closely. Great read.

Spawn #8 2020‐04-29 between 6pm and 9pm.

I'm guessing this is the same male, and maybe same female, as in spawn #6. The couple is in the same pipe, and the eggs are all over the sand. What a mess. So far, I don't see a single egg in the pipe yet. About 90 minutes after the first photo, I returned and found the eggs devastated by other fish in the tank... not eaten, but buried and dispersed. I managed to recover 139 sand-coated eggs. Into an incubation basket they went. Let's see if they hatch (fortunately, the same lost eggs from spawn #6 did pretty well hatching, so hopefully these do too).

The problem appears to be that the male (and/or female) doesn't enter far enough into the pipe. If he stays with his tail hanging out, she can't follow inside #CoronavirusSexyTime

• 21 February: Spawn #1
• 05 March: Spawn#2 (13 day interval)
• 20 March: Spawn #3 (15 day interval)
• 28 March: Spawn #4 (8 day interval)
• 02 April: Spawn #5 (5 day interval, or 13 days if this was the female from spawn #3)
• 06 April: Spawn #6 (4 day interval, or 12 days if this was the female from spawn #4)
• 18 April: Spawn #7 (12 day interval, or 16 days if this was the female from spawn #5)
• 29 April: Spawn #8 (11 day interval since spawn #7, or 23 days if this was the female from spawn #6)

FWIW, there's a second couple together right now also. This happened last time for spawn #7, but the second couple didn't breed that time. Maybe this time?

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 04:40FWIW, there's a second couple together right now also. This happened last time for spawn #7, but the second couple didn't breed that time. Maybe this time?

Success! The second pair finished spawning overnight and they did it the right way, with their eggs in the pipe.

Spawn # 2020‐04-29 between 6pm and midnight. #CoronavirusSexyTime

• 21 February: Spawn #1
• 05 March: Spawn#2 (13 day interval)
• 20 March: Spawn #3 (15 day interval)
• 28 March: Spawn #4 (8 day interval)
• 02 April: Spawn #5 (5 day interval, or 13 days if this was the female from spawn #3)
• 06 April: Spawn #6 (4 day interval, or 12 days if this was the female from spawn #4)
• 18 April: Spawn #7 (12 day interval, or 16 days if this was the female from spawn #5)
• 29 April: Spawn #8 (11 days if this was the female from spawn #6)
• 29 April: Spawn #9 (23 day interval since spawn #7)

Cheers, Eric

Update on oldest fry (from spawn #2, eggs laid 05 March, eggs hatched about 12-13 March; here), now 7 weeks old and over 3cm SL.

The 2.8 spawns per week has stopped in my tanks, but spawns are still happening. Today I found another Rineloricaria eigenmanni spawn, with the red male brooding the eggs!

As to day counts, 20 days since spawn #9. #CoronavirusSexyTime

Cheers, Eric

Three months, 46 mm SL

Nice work Eric. Gotta love those green eggs even without the ham.

I do have one suggestion. Very early on I used those mesh baskets. I lost fish. Years later I discovered the marina hang-on traps which use an air pump to move tank water through the breeder box which is a solid plastic. There is only one caveat when using these, the intake tends to bring in any solids in the water which tend to settle on the bottom of the box. There are two ways to deal with this. The easiest it to put a fine mesh bag over the intake. The other is to use an airline to siphon out the debris once or twice a day.

These boxes hang off of the front of any tank against a wall, but you can hang them wherever they fit. The eggs or fry are safe. I will sometimes pull a cave with dad on wigglers to the trap. When the fry are let out, the cave and dad go back.



https://www.bigalspets.com/marina-hang- ... l?sku=1888
or
https://www.amazon.com/Marina-Hang-On-B ... B005QRDCP2

I have 6 or 8 of these boxes. I also use them to hold fish pending shipping or to sort fish into different size groups when I do a fry hunt.

Surprise discovery of yolk-filled eigenmanni fry this morning. Estimating 8-10 days incubation and hatching yesterday, that puts the spawning date somewhere around 10 June or 11 June, about 22-23 days since last known spawn. I see about a dozen scouting around the tank. Later I found the red male on what I expect are the remaining unhatched eggs. I moved his tube to a fry basket so I can contain the hatchlings. #CoronavirusSexyTime

• 21 February: Spawn #1
• 05 March: Spawn#2 (13 day interval)
• 20 March: Spawn #3 (15 day interval)
• 28 March: Spawn #4 (8 day interval)
• 02 April: Spawn #5 (5 day interval, or 13 days if this was the female from spawn #3)
• 06 April: Spawn #6 (4 day interval, or 12 days if this was the female from spawn #4)
• 18 April: Spawn #7 (12 day interval, or 16 days if this was the female from spawn #5)
• 29 April: Spawn #8 (11 days if this was the female from spawn #6)
• 29 April: Spawn #9 (23 day interval since spawn #7)
• 19 May: Spawn #10 (20 day interval since spawn #7)
• 10-11 June (estimate): Spawn #11 (about 22-23 day interval since spawn #7)

Dad and children

Idiot dad, and the lady shown outside his home, have started spawning in a closed-ended pleco cave instead of in open-at-both-ends pipes/tubes.

Ughh...

3 cm SL

Caught this male near the front of the tank. He was showing off to a lady friend, but there was no pipe or cave nearby. Go figure.

Cheers, Eric

That top one is, in particular, a lovely pic,


Jools

Thanks!

Cheers, Eric

Dude just got the free haircut at the Marines bootcamp.

Babies like to hang out on their new bamboo pipe pieces (each about 3cm long and 3.5cm diameter).

TwoTankAmin wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 13:47 Nice work Eric. Gotta love those green eggs even without the ham.

I do have one suggestion. Very early on I used those mesh baskets. I lost fish. Years later I discovered the marina hang-on traps which use an air pump to move tank water through the breeder box which is a solid plastic. There is only one caveat when using these, the intake tends to bring in any solids in the water which tend to settle on the bottom of the box. There are two ways to deal with this. The easiest it to put a fine mesh bag over the intake. The other is to use an airline to siphon out the debris once or twice a day.

These boxes hang off of the front of any tank against a wall, but you can hang them wherever they fit. The eggs or fry are safe. I will sometimes pull a cave with dad on wigglers to the trap. When the fry are let out, the cave and dad go back.



https://www.bigalspets.com/marina-hang- ... l?sku=1888
or
https://www.amazon.com/Marina-Hang-On-B ... B005QRDCP2

I have 6 or 8 of these boxes. I also use them to hold fish pending shipping or to sort fish into different size groups when I do a fry hunt.

Hi TTA,

Now this box you recommended is what I'm using for both the eigenmanni and for the Rineloricaria lanceolata. So far, only 0-2% mortality after one month.

Cheers, Eric

Nice, Eric.

I also uses those boxes when I am in shipping mode. The average time it takes me to empty a tank of decor, catch fish and put things back together is anywhere from 3 to 5 hours in a larger tank.

So I will start pulling the fish a day earlier and overnight them in one of those traps. I can usually get a small piece of wood and some slate si they are not bare. I also cover the box with a towel so it is dark, that way when I am working on other things in that space and have lights on at weird hours the box is dark.

I actually prefer to use what is now called Maracyn Oxy (previously Maroxy) fir fungus. It is colorless. I was taught to use Meth. Blue by a cory breeder many years ago. He told me that as soon as I saw wigglers to remove the blue as it could damage their gills.

Finally, I am not sure that whips do not actually tend eggs. I had a spawns on the front glass from my farlowella and the dad tended and guarded them and I managed to catch this pic. It sure looks like dadt is cleaning the eggs.

TwoTankAmin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2023, 14:48I actually prefer to use what is now called Maracyn Oxy (previously Maroxy) fir fungus. It is colorless. I was taught to use Meth. Blue by a cory breeder many years ago. He told me that as soon as I saw wigglers to remove the blue as it could damage their gills.

I don't usually do much to treat eggs, but when I use meth blue, I was taught just a dip and the MB will soak into the jelly coat of the egg, then you don't have to continuously treat till hatching. But IDK if that really works so well.

TwoTankAmin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2023, 14:48Finally, I am not sure that whips do not actually tend eggs. I had a spawns on the front glass from my farlowella and the dad tended and guarded them and I managed to catch this pic. It sure looks like dadt is cleaning the eggs.

I've got video of my male black Rineloricaria lanceolata Rio Itaya using his anal fin and pelvic fins to hop up off the eggs and sweep across the eggs with the anal fin. When I've pulled R. eigenmanni eggs from dad, they rarely do well in terms of hatch rate. It's for this reason that I cut my bamboo pipes to a length that fish like (long enough) to spawn in, but short enough to fit easily in the large size breeder boxes as you've shown. Just like you do with caves, I put the whole bamboo pipe in the box now, dad and eggs inside. I try to wait until the eggs have only 5 or fewer days remaining before hatching (sometimes I cut it close and it's the day before) and like you, I cover the box with a towel for privacy.

Cheers, Eric

I to use the Fluval and I also picked up a Ista which is slightly larger than the Fluval and it has a spraybar on the lift tube so you are adding fresh water across the width of the box instead of just one spot, and the Ista is also less expensive than the Fluval, you can find the Ista at amazon

Jeanne

sturiosoma wrote: ↑01 Mar 2023, 20:25 I to use the Fluval and I also picked up a Ista which is slightly larger than the Fluval and it has a spraybar on the lift tube so you are adding fresh water across the width of the box instead of just one spot, and the Ista is also less expensive than the Fluval, you can find the Ista at amazon

Jeanne

Oooo. That looks nice. I've never seen that brand.

Thanks Jeanne!

Eric

Tonight I dumped the (60+) 1-month-old babies out of the breeder box and into the parents' tank so that I could move the dad with his newest spawn (now 8-day-old eggs about to hatch) into the breeder box. No sooner did I move them than the dad started bouncing on the eggs and the eggs started hatching. I don't know if he was actively helping them hatch or just doing his normal thing a little nervously because of my light... although to clarify, he was doing this before I turned on the camera and its light.

Cheers, Eric

Rineloricaria eigenmanni male stimulating eggs to hatch

Pretty cool Eric, I have video of mine in pre-spawn behavior which went on for hours and now anyone that knows anything about you tube it would take me a year and a half to upload 2hr. of video so I took just the best

https://youtu.be/u94zzF5AKks

Jeanne

sturiosoma wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 11:40

Very cool Jeanne! I've never seen mine ever show any behavior like that. My males sit in the bamboo pipes and flip their tails which dangle out of the bamboo, then females approach the bamboo from the male's tail end and enter the cave. Then there are hours or sometimes a day or two of mutual, almost-synchronized, tail-flipping, and then they're finished and she goes her separate way.

Just an aside, I suspect that your video shows two males fighting. I see cheek odontodes on both individuals.

Cheers, Eric

This morning the eggs are all hatched. There are at least 75 baby eigenmanni, but I can't count them accurately because they are scurrying about.

https://fb.watch/j5GfvMoTcO/?mibextid=5hxk5e

Cheers, Eric

OMG! The dad's eggs just hatched 4 days ago and he's brought home another girl!

Correction, no, not one girl... two females were creamed in that bamboo with him overnight.

I am hoping you meant crammed.

Jools