Wigglers mixed with fry

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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AmazonTank
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Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Hope everyone is doing well!
Can I mix new wigglers with 1 month old fry? I got a double spawn here with my L306 😃
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by sturiosoma »

Can you hold the wigglers till they're free swimming, and make sure they have plenty of cover where they're gonna go

Jeanne
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Hi Jeanne!
The winglers are in an egg tumbler and the 1 month old fry are in a breeder box!
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bekateen
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by bekateen »

AmazonTank wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:03 pmHope everyone is doing well!
Can I mix new wigglers with 1 month old fry? I got a double spawn here with my L306 😃
With various Panaqolus and Ancistrus species, and also with Dekeyseria, I routinely mix wigglers and fry, up to 3 months old, in a fry basket. I put about a 6-10 oak leaves (or other suitable leaves) to create layers for hiding places in order for the fry to find some separation. I do this because I prefer to leave fry in the fry basket for 3-6 months so I can focus feeding to them and it makes cleaning easier. I get fewer babies that appear to be undereating if I do this.

My only warning is watch for bent tails. I've had some Ancistrus sp. Rio Ucayali get so crowded in a fry basket that they started fighting each other (same size, not different ages) with slaps of their tails. The result was about 50 (out of 200) fry had what I think were damaged (if not broken) spines with the tail bent off permanently at a severe angle. However, I've never had that problem with either L397 or Panaqolus maccus.

Good luck!
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AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Thanks for the message that's excellent information!
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by aquaholic »

I don't mix batches of fry as different sizes means the larger fish out compete the smaller for food and it's impossible to recognise/ cull the runts. Also very labour intensive having to size sort when harvesting for sale.

You can make temporary tanks out of plastic totes, polystyrene fish boxes or 20L buckets. All can be stacked several layers high if space becomes an issue and the fish are easily "poured" into next larger size growout container as required.
AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Thanks for your message and the insights that makes sense!
I been lining up ziss breeder boxes across my tanks to separate the stages of the growouts!
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Does everyone have better luck raising the fry in ziss breeder boxes or letting loose in a smaller growout tank?
My plan was to have a 50 gallon grow out tank and divide it into 3 by fry size with matala pads!
AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

I been lining up Ziss breeder boxes on my tanks now with 2 batches of fry in each basket so about 100 babies in each breeder box.
I have a few grow out tanks now with 6-8 month olds I wondering how long 100 can stay in the box 🤔
Any advice moving forward I'm feeling overwhelmed with babies 😃 😕
aquaholic
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by aquaholic »

It's going to depend on your water change regime. If your able to keep food and fresh incoming water regularly replenished, the growing fish fry can be kept in those breeder boxes longer - similar to cage culturing food fish in rivers.

What are your plans for all the fish? I wouldn't recommend those breeder boxes for long term. It's just as easy to make your own tanks and implement constant drip water change. You may soon have several hundred tanks and several fish rooms though...
AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

aquaholic wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:53 am It's going to depend on your water change regime. If your able to keep food and fresh incoming water regularly replenished, the growing fish fry can be kept in those breeder boxes longer - similar to cage culturing food fish in rivers.

What are your plans for all the fish? I wouldn't recommend those breeder boxes for long term. It's just as easy to make your own tanks and implement constant drip water change. You may soon have several hundred tanks and several fish rooms though...
Thanks for your message I appreciate it! I sell to pet stores and also wholesale.
I'm setting up these big acrylic tanks in a 180 so hopefully it will buy me some time.
I'm having issues with PH being to low, I'm in Miami Lakes so my water is warm and do massive 50% water changes every week.
I started running purigen I'm thinking of getting seachem ph buffer since my ph is low!
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aquaholic
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by aquaholic »

Having warm water is great. You are very fortunate.
I would raise and buffer the water hardness with coral rubble chunks (or similar) which will keep your pH higher and steady. Perhaps others can offer water chemistry advice.

On newly hatched fish, I use small glass tanks (30cm x 15xm x 15cm) on vertical shelf racks containing lights and water change only from established water (proven safe) taken from broodstock racks. Once they are eating well and deemed safe, I move them into growout racks. As per previous post, I don't mix batches of fry. These small tanks are easy to move about even when full, scrub clean and transfer fish by pouring into a bigger tank.

I have attached some older photos of a fish growout rack of mine to spark you with some ideas.

This rack has several 500 L cylindrical tapered tubs with a pipe sleeved over a central standpipe (two pipes) and a tangential water return on each tub. This gently swirls the water clockwise which concentrates all the detritus into the center where water is removed from the center bottom - so these tubs are self cleaning. I ended up painting the tub bottoms a white colour later on to make it easier to see fish.

As this is the growout stage, I feed small amounts but very frequently - multiple times every day, extend day lengths and do 50% water changes daily however all done automatically. Small high protein pellets are dropped via fish feeder into the central sump and the water pump which can handle particles up to 8mm - pushes these pellets through the water return pipes to each tank - flood feeding. The water is changed by simple displacement via an overflow drain.

To harvest fish, I pull both these pipes as the drains increase in diameter downstream and wide enough to carry the fish and water to the sump which has a fish collection net waiting. Just replace the standpipes and the tank will refill.

Actually I just realised this system is actually for my finfish growout however I have already written this post up so I might as well continue. For L numbers I would use same tubs or used 55 gallon plastic barrels with a floated plastic mesh basket made from 3mm diamond oyster mesh. Similar to https://www.oyster-mesh.com/oystermesh/ ... -mesh.html . So harvest by lifting the basket out. I can buy used fish safe barrels for $8 each in volume quantities.

I no longer breed L numbers but I kept a small fish room of L numbers as species only tanks. Instead of constantly checking ceramic logs for eggs which was extremely time consuming, I kept the whole room constantly night and used clear drinking glasses for the fish to spawn in. I used a small headtorch inside the room but could see the egg clusters immediately and used these same container as egg hatchers. No photos, the room was constantly dark but I am sure everyone knows what a fish room filled to the brim with racked tanks looks like.

This is what I do, everyone finds what works best for themselves. However reducing tank maintenance as much as possible allows you to keep more fish. Try to keep this as a fun hobby as there are easier ways to make money.
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AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

Thanks so much some amazing insights into a fish breeding system!
I appreciate you taking the time!
AmazonTank
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Re: Wigglers mixed with fry

Post by AmazonTank »

I have this piece of Coral I'm wondering how much to use for each 80 gallon tank?
I was gonna break off a branch for each tank and add to sump?
I am working with many aquariums with very low KH and PH from almond leaves and driftwood.
Thanks in advance breeding pros!
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