Using sand as substrate

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:52 am

Hi,

I have several tanks and use use gravel for all but the corys, they have sand. I have notice that the media of said tank need to be cleaned, changed or whatever we all do. And it gets really filthy, not as much as the others. Some how all the detritus found on the gravel on other tanks get to the filter and as I rake the sand to get the gas out, it doesn’t cloud the water.

Does anyone know why is this happening?

Thanks.
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:58 am

Hi Reindas,

If I understand your problem, I think the answer is that the sand is so compacted, that the detritus doesn't settle down between the sand grains, but rather stays on top of the sand and then gets sucked into the filter so that your filter gets dirty faster than it would in a tank with gravel.
I have that experience.

I will give you a warning. I've killed fish before while stirring sand because it released sulfur gas. If you are smelling rotten eggs or other sulfur smells, or if your sand is thick and you see lots of bubbles coming out, I recommend you stop immediately from stirring the sand and remove all the fish to a bucket so they are not poisoned. After removing fish, then stir the sand and release the gas.

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:52 am

Hi Eric,

The filter media is not a problem because I can see it’s working. Figured it was good, I didn’t know why, so thanks a lot! :-BD :-BD

I only have about 1 1/4 inch of sand (3cm). Because the corys move the sand while scavenging for food I guess that causes less gas accumulate, but also I notice that the gas only forms on certain corners of the tank. Anyway I don’t let much time pass between stirring all the sand. Also you level the sand and then in a few days it’s shifts and you get a lot in a corner and little on the other, so I try to keep it the same.

So, is it too much or does it need more sand?

Thanks.
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:24 am

Three cm of sand is plenty for the corys. :-)

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:44 am

Perfect, I’m glad no changes are needed.

Thanks!
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:51 am

Reindas wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:44 am
Perfect, I’m glad no changes are needed.
Certainly don't add more. Myself, I have very thin sand layers, maybe 1 cm max, sometimes less. But if your fish are healthy and you aren't poisoning them, you should be okay with your setup.

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:47 am

For what I can see I don’t need to poison them. All I need to do is to clean the sponge filter. I took the sponges out and clean them on fresh water treated with prime several times until the water didn’t cloud. It just took a few minutes, ah but when I put it back. There was one of aeneus belly up dead just under the frame of the filter.

It was an adult, but not older the 2 years. Maybe it got stressed or scared and darted and hit the glass or maybe it was sick and didn’t notice.

Well we all know how it works. Guy see fish and falls in love, takes it home care for it and then no matter what you do, it dies. Is time to get 2 few more now I guess I only have males.
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

kvnbyl
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:01 pm
I've donated: $401.00!
My cats species list: 45 (i:0, k:6)
My aquaria list: 7 (i:1)
My BLogs: 1 (i:0, p:13)
My Wishlist: 5
Spotted: 5
Location 1: VA
Location 2: usa
Interests: catfish, especially synos, Rainbowfish, South American cichlids

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by kvnbyl » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:37 am

i too have Cory tanks and i use black sand, since i am using it for a foraging place i only use 3/4 of an inch.
i would guess that with a layer that small there is relatively little bio filtration done, also doesn't trap larger particles, in fact they do sit on top of the sand so it makes sense filters would have to work harder.
my experience is that the Cory tanks' canister filter has to be cleaned more often but i'm not sure it's because of the sand thing or because i have probably 75 of them in a 150 gallon tank. on average they seem to be less " dirty" fish but much of that is i think because they tend to be smaller

Froeschli
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:45 pm
My cats species list: 1 (i:0, k:1)
Spotted: 1
Location 1: Toronto
Location 2: Canada

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Froeschli » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:16 am

I have about an inch of (pool filter) sand and not noticed any smells or bubbles. How long does it usually take for it to start doing that?
I've been meaning to get some trumpet snails to sift the substrate but not really a fan of snails. And if I add cories, the plecos will likely go on strike....

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:24 am

Froeschli wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:16 am
I have about an inch of (pool filter) sand and not noticed any smells or bubbles. How long does it usually take for it to start doing that?
I've been meaning to get some trumpet snails to sift the substrate but not really a fan of snails. And if I add cories, the plecos will likely go on strike....
My tanks need a few weeks to build up gas. I don't stir gravel every water change, but I do about once per month.

Trumpet snails will stir the gravel but they'll also take over the tank, and they'll eat cory eggs. I would NOT recommend trumpet snails.

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

Froeschli
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:45 pm
My cats species list: 1 (i:0, k:1)
Spotted: 1
Location 1: Toronto
Location 2: Canada

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Froeschli » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:13 pm

bekateen wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:24 am
Trumpet snails will stir the gravel but they'll also take over the tank, and they'll eat cory eggs. I would NOT recommend trumpet snails.

Cheers, Eric
Good to know. I've only had the sand in there for about a month. Stirred it maybe once, here and there. If I run into issues, i may just have to re-scape the thing so the sand is more accessible for cleaning.

Thanks,

Karin

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:26 pm
I've donated: $2918.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:48)
Location 1: USA
Location 2: Mt. Kisco, NY
Interests: Fish and Poker

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by TwoTankAmin » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:43 pm

For what it is worth. Unless a substrate is planted or there is something in the tank that burrows, there tends to be insufficient oxygen for aerobic bacteria to thrive as the depth approaches 1 inch. I try to keep my sand depth under 1 inch to prevent issues of anaerobic pockets forming.

Another observation here. I never stir my sand. I do use a tank vac pushed down to the bottom glass every few weeks. This prevents any possible gas from getting into the tank water. The gas goes up the siphon and comes out in the bucket end of the vac hose. It may be stinky, but it is not released into the tank only into the bucket. I have seen the bubbles come out of the sand and go up the tube.
No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:45 am

I have learned a lot here about keeping sand. Thanks a lot. I have a question, when you siphon how do you avoid getting sand on you bucket right?
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:54 am

Reindas wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:45 am
I have a question, when you siphon how do you avoid getting sand on you bucket right?
:)) I always get some sand in my bucket. A small amount. I try to wash it back into the tank, but if it's just a small amount, I let it go. Here's a photo (taken right now) of my bucket... sand. :))
Attachments
20190731_175240[1].jpg
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:51 am

I'll try that way next time I do it.

Thanks!
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

dw1305
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:57 am
Location 2: Bath, UK

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by dw1305 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:09 am

Hi all,
Reindas wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:52 am
I have several tanks and use use gravel for all but the corys, they have sand. I have notice that the media of said tank need to be cleaned, changed or whatever we all do. And it gets really filthy, not as much as the others.
That is actually one of the great advantages of sand, all the organic waste sits on top of the substrate.

You need to syphon out the waste, this is really important. Ideally you don't want any bulky organic matter ending up in the filter, you only want oxygen and ammonia entering the filter.

I use the flow pattern to produce an area of low flow where the waste will collect. Put a tile, or piece of slate, in that location and syphon the waste out from on top of it.

For me the real issue is using the filter as a syphon. There is a finite amount of dissolved oxygen that enters the filter, it can't be replenished whilst it is in the filter and you can't see what is happening.

I'd strongly recommend a pre-filter (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45788&p=309846&hili ... el#p309846) on the filter intake to perform all of your mechanical filtration outside of the filter body. I like a large sponge block, of the type sold by our sponsor (https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/ad ... ?ad=swiss7).
bekateen wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:24 am
Trumpet snails will stir the gravel but they'll also ....eat Corydoras eggs.
I'm not sure, all my tanks have a few Malaysian Trumpet Snails and I still have plenty of fish eggs (http://www.swisstropicals.com/filtratio ... -supplies/), but there maybe a lot more that are eaten before I ever see them.

Ingo Seidel (in the "Back to Nature guide to L-Catfish" (https://www.planetcatfish.com/books/boo ... cle_id=371)) mentions using MTS as "egg janitors" and this is from "Manual hatching of..... (https://www.suedamerikafans.de/en/manuelles-ausbrueten/)".

Pond (Lymnaea) and Assassin Snails (Clea) are definitely both great egg eaters.

cheers Darrel

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:02 pm

dw1305 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:09 am
I'm not sure, all my tanks have a few Malaysian Trumpet Snails and I still have plenty of fish eggs (http://www.swisstropicals.com/filtratio ... -supplies/), but there maybe a lot more that are eaten before I ever see them.

Ingo Seidel (in the "Back to Nature guide to L-Catfish" (https://www.planetcatfish.com/books/boo ... cle_id=371)) mentions using MTS as "egg janitors" and this is from "Manual hatching of..... (https://www.suedamerikafans.de/en/manuelles-ausbrueten/)".

Pond (Lymnaea) and Assassin Snails (Clea) are definitely both great egg eaters.
There's a whole thread on here about using ramshorn snails as "egg janitors," to adopt that phrase.

MTS don't eat guarded pleco eggs, but I don't know personally if they eat stray loose eggs.

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

dw1305
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:57 am
Location 2: Bath, UK

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by dw1305 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:14 pm

Hi all,
bekateen wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:02 pm
There's a whole thread on here about using ramshorn snails as "egg janitors," to adopt that phrase.

cheers, Eric
We do (viewtopic.php?t=42862), and, like many on PC, it is an excellent thread.
bekateen wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:02 pm
MTS don't eat guarded pleco eggs, but I don't know personally if they eat stray loose eggs.
That is really what I'm interested in.

My guess (and also based on limited personal experience) is that they don't eat viable eggs.

I'd be interested in whether that is always true or not. This is a quote (from "@Elko" https://www.suedamerikafans.de/)
.......In order to keep the eggs as clean as possible, I put a few trumpet snails (Melanoides tuberculata) in the incubator. These also eat dead eggs and these do not destroy the “living eggs”. Dead eggs are a source of infection and endanger the “good” eggs.......
cheers Darrel

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5617
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 52
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:46)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:104, p:1590)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 123
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by bekateen » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:57 pm

Would be good to test thst in the same way we've been collecting data on ramshorn snails. New thread, anybody? ;-)
Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Reindas
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm
I've donated: $25.00!
My cats species list: 6 (i:5, k:6)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
My BLogs: 1 (i:5, p:52)
My Wishlist: 4
Spotted: 7
Location 1: Bayamón
Location 2: Puerto Rico
Interests: Catfish , Photography, Computers, Star Trek.

Re: Using sand as substrate

Post by Reindas » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:06 am

All I know about ramshorn snails is that I hate them. The first plant I got, came with a bonus. Ramshorn snails, it was an odyssey to get rid of them.
Regards.

I love my Corys! (*)

Post Reply