Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

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Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

Hello all,

I just read in the literature something about an "adipose body" on the pectoral fins of sexually mature male Dianema and Hoplosternum. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone have any info on this?

Thanks, Eric
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Bas Pels »

I think you intent us to guess what adipose would mean.

In Dutch the adipose fin is called vetvin, which would translate as 'fat fin'. This would make me translate adipose as thikened, fatty - and in Hoplosternum the first finray in the pectoral fin is thickened.

Problem is, in Dianema I neve saw this. Or did I only see females? I would be very surprized if that was the case. But then, perhaps the Dianema males I was never ripened to full maturity. I have to admit, I never saw a Dianema male which has bred.

But his is only my two cents.
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

Hello Bas,

I didn't mean to be vague, except that I'm not familiar with any "adipose body" on the pectoral fins of some male Callichthyids. But given that the scientific article mentioned that hobbyists call the object ( a lump on the male's pectoral fin membrane,, between the pectoral spine and first ray) an adipose body, I was hoping that one or more hobbyists here would know about it.

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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

Could it mean this....

My male hoplosternum punctatum
20200805_181912.jpg
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

Thanks for the photo. I think it's bigger than that, and closer to the base.

Cheers Eric
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

Okay got another look at my male hoplosternum punctatum 's fins. Perhaps this is what it references? My two females do not have this
20200814_161353.jpg
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

That could be! Thanks!
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

I can provide a photo unmarked too, its like the rays are thickened and form a mass.
20200814_161348.jpg
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

:-BD
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Jools »

I think I know - but going to be cryptic and see if any Whovians can figure it out...
Adipose[1].jpg
Adipose[1].jpg (34.91 KiB) Viewed 1577 times
This picture of a mighty male Megalechis picta I collected in the Amazon should also help illustrate the point I think.

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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

Thanks, Jools and MissNoodle. Yes those are it. The original publication I saw had a b&w photo , but being b&w, it was difficult for me to know what I was seeing.

Now I do.

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

Here's the original photo, in which I struggled to imagine the pad was so large. I was expecting from an older paper a focused, nodular structure in the membrane between the first ray and the spine, or first ray and second ray, rather than a sheet covering so much of the fin's underside. And since the pectoral fins in this photo are somewhat compressed/folded on the large male, it was difficult for me to determine how much of the opaque (whitish) density visible on the large male's pectoral fins was due to the pad, vs. due to the folding of the fin. Jools, your photo clears that up.

Picture from Winemiller, K.O. 1987. Feeding and reproduciton of the currito, Hoplosternum littorale. Env. Biol. Fishes, 20(3)_219-227

@MissNoodle, your man definitely has the beginnings of pads. But clearly, he's got some growing to do. :)). Good luck with your group. :-)

Cheers, Eric

P.S.... I must brush up on my Dr. Who.
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

He is hoplosternum punctatum, shouldn't he be about almost full grown? He is about 3 inches now
20200814_104250.jpg
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by bekateen »

MissNoodle wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:20 pmHe is hoplosternum punctatum, shouldn't he be about almost full grown? He is about 3 inches now
Ah yes, if you mean 3" not counting tail. I didn't mean to say "grow longer to match the size of the H. littorale," but rather to grow in maleness. b-)

That said, I don't assume that the two species will have the equivalent growth of such an adipose pad on the pectoral. I've never seen H. punctatum, so maybe what you have on your male is all he will develop. :-)

Sorry for the confusion - and if it does develop further, time will tell. ;-)

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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:44 pm
MissNoodle wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:20 pmHe is hoplosternum punctatum, shouldn't he be about almost full grown? He is about 3 inches now
Ah yes, if you mean 3" not counting tail. I didn't mean to say "grow longer to match the size of the H. littorale," but rather to grow in maleness. b-)

That said, I don't assume that the two species will have the equivalent growth of such an adipose pad on the pectoral. I've never seen H. punctatum, so maybe what you have on your male is all he will develop. :-)

Sorry for the confusion - and if it does develop further, time will tell. ;-)

Cheers, Eric
Lol was a touch worried haha there isn't a whole heck of a lot of information on this species aside from here and one or two other places, so got a little concerned theyd get much larger. Theyre in a 55 gallon but still with other fish haha

Well if those pads get bigger, I'll post photos here. Honestly these are the best catfish species I've owned, which says a lot because all are awesome but these guys are so active and friendly and not shy whatsoever.

There needs to be more info on them :D
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Jools »

MissNoodle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:05 amThere needs to be more info on them :D
They were quite often mistaken with Dianema longibarbis in the past, but it is a shame there is not more on them. Perhaps you'd consider writing up your experiences and why you like them so much for a Catfish of the Month article? Be happy to run it / assist with writing if that would help.

Cheers,

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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by MissNoodle »

Jools wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:20 pm
MissNoodle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:05 amThere needs to be more info on them :D
They were quite often mistaken with Dianema longibarbis in the past, but it is a shame there is not more on them. Perhaps you'd consider writing up your experiences and why you like them so much for a Catfish of the Month article? Be happy to run it / assist with writing if that would help.

Cheers,

Jools
Id love to! I adore these catfish a lot, its a shame they're not more popular because these have easily become my favourite fish I have.

Where would I submit it?
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Jools »

Email sent. ;-)

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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Birger »

Id love to! I adore these catfish a lot, its a shame they're not more popular because these have easily become my favourite fish I have.
Nice, you can do it!!
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Re: Adipose body on pectoral fins of sexually mature Dianema and Hoplosternum?

Post by Jools »

It shall happen soon.... :-)

Jools
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