Bad incident, take some caution

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
Viktor Jarikov
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Re: Bad incident, take some caution

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you Ms Noodle, for the helpful links and all you guys too. Hmm, there looks to be definitely something to it.

I'd say it'd be easier for me to believe if the use was recent, like within a minute or a few, and copious, then even the methanol hypothesis might gain traction. In 1 minute at room temp I imagine (perhaps erroneously) there would be no methanol left on one's hands, which would be present in trace amounts to start with anyway.

Methanol boils at 65 C or 149 F.

In 30 min I'd say surely forget methanol = technical grade ethanol hypothesis. It was either something else that doesn't evaporate quickly or at all, maybe the PEG = polyethyleneglycol, or your child (and you?) could have santised your hands first thing at home, no? Don't you do it, now especially during the pandemic, as the first thing as you come home - either sanitize or wash with soap?

Plus in 30 minutes an adult but even more so a child would touch and rub and stick their hands into and over great many objects, clothes, hair, body, etc. and likely wipe off most of whatever non-volatile residue was left.

But all in all, I am thankful you brought this up. I'd not want to take chances or experiment with my fish, even though I have no sanitizer in my fish rooms. Perhaps a really curious homemade scientist would study this issue with feeder fish in the name of reporting the findings and saving a myriad of other pet fish around the world. Do you think this'd be a good idea or would animal rights activists rip such a person a few new ones not seeing the forest for the trees?

It also makes me think the interaction of that unknown chemical and a fish organism must drastically differ in the mechanism and/or intensity versus human organism; otherwise, this would have been noted long ago and adjusted but as is, it doesn't present danger to humans. If we are speaking of the usual, non-banned over the counter, government approved hand sanitizers of course... So we shouldn't use personal experience or overall human experience with sanitizers as a guide in thinking this over...
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Lycosid
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Re: Bad incident, take some caution

Post by Lycosid »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:04 pm It also makes me think the interaction of that unknown chemical and a fish organism must drastically differ in the mechanism and/or intensity versus human organism; otherwise, this would have been noted long ago and adjusted but as is, it doesn't present danger to humans.
Well, for us it's on our skin, which is a barrier against chemical harm. For a fish it gets into the gills, which are designed to allow chemicals (primarily oxygen and carbon dioxide, of course) to transfer into the fish's internal organs. I don't know anyone who injects hand sanitizer (or maybe I do and they're just not telling) but I would imagine that would be more comparable.
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MissNoodle
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Re: Bad incident, take some caution

Post by MissNoodle »

Interestingly searching ingredients...
We did use some foam based ones at one store prior to coming home which were not alcohol based.
Screenshot_20201120-194035_Samsung Internet.jpg
Go to the compound page.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzalkonium_chloride

Noted to be toxic
Screenshot_20201120-194440_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20201120-194506_Samsung Internet.jpg
And is actively being used during the pandemic
Screenshot_20201120-194406_Samsung Internet.jpg
Bas Pels
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Re: Bad incident, take some caution

Post by Bas Pels »

This stuff is used without any notification to the user? Incredible!
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MissNoodle
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Re: Bad incident, take some caution

Post by MissNoodle »

Bas Pels wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:42 am This stuff is used without any notification to the user? Incredible!
Its even labeled as nontoxic in their listings lol
https://www.sebocanada.ca/product/alcoh ... zer-550ml/

Marketed for schools
https://store.schoolspecialty.com/OA_HT ... em=1434917


But we DID use a foam one that day at the mall.
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