Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

All posts regarding the care and breeding of catfishes from Asia.
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Skinned IDS - WARNING - gruesome pics.

I had made an error placing my three IDS and the Harlequin shark in one tank (4500 gal) initially.

In 2 days, I saw the shark started chasing and bothering the IDSs, suctioning to their body. When I returned by nighttime, the shark would not stop, having ignored the food again. So I rehomed it into the other 4500 gal.

The biggest IDS (2.5') got 95% of the "action". It didn't look so bad at first. Not much of discoloration at all. Looked like soft, very minor, large area, very weak abrasions / imprints. So I thought the Harlequin shark was merely rasping the slime. But in 2-3 days, the affected parts of skin on the IDS crusted up and in a week or two they fell off.

It's been a month now since the attacks and the big IDS has been healing up so far, so good. It got skinned on both sides. Blind IDS rescue got some damage too. The third smallest IDS has not been damaged.

I have not put and two together but I think my two Harlequins were behind the deaths with similar symptoms of my two 2.5' albino channels. Plus 8 large pacu have been biting off channels' fins bit by bit in the same temporary pond.

***********************************************************************************

The big 2.5' IDS:
Attachments
Skinned IDS 1.JPG
Skinned IDS 2.JPG
Last edited by Viktor Jarikov on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Blind IDS rescue, ~20":
Attachments
Blind IDS 2.JPG
Blind IDS.JPG
Last edited by Viktor Jarikov on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

~1' Harlequin shark
Attachments
Harlequin shark 1.JPG
Harlequin shark 2.JPG
Harlequin shark 3.JPG
Thebiggerthebetter
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Just to note that the Harlequins have NOT been able to do anything like this to any other tank / pond mates.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Richard B
Posts: 6952
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 pm
I've donated: $20.00!
My articles: 9
My images: 11
My cats species list: 37 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:47)
Spotted: 10
Location 1: on the sofa, or maybe at work?
Location 2: Warwickshire: UK
Interests: Tanganyika Catfish, African catfish, Non-loricariid sucker-catfish.
Running, drinking, eating, sci-fi, stapelids

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Richard B »

That's incredible Viktor - what species is the Harlequin as it doesn't look like what I know to be a harlequin over here in the UK?
Lou: Every young man's fantasy is to have a three-way.
Jacob: Yeah not with another fu**!ng guy!
Lou: It's still a three-way!

Hot Tub Time Machine: 2010
User avatar
Richard B
Posts: 6952
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 pm
I've donated: $20.00!
My articles: 9
My images: 11
My cats species list: 37 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:47)
Spotted: 10
Location 1: on the sofa, or maybe at work?
Location 2: Warwickshire: UK
Interests: Tanganyika Catfish, African catfish, Non-loricariid sucker-catfish.
Running, drinking, eating, sci-fi, stapelids

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Richard B »

Labeo cyclorhynchus, is what we see over here but yours looks like Barbatulus
Lou: Every young man's fantasy is to have a three-way.
Jacob: Yeah not with another fu**!ng guy!
Lou: It's still a three-way!

Hot Tub Time Machine: 2010
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you, Richard. I always appreciate help.

I bought two of these 3 years ago from Aquarium and Reef Center, Cape Coral, FL, $27 each, at ~3". They came in as calico (AFAIU synonym for variegated) sharks.

Yeah, I am not very sure of the ID as Labeo variegatus or Labeo cf. variegatus or Labeo cyclorynchus (it does have a round nose :) ). My short looking around says these names appear synonymous and the sharks are referred to as Harlequin sharks and vary in appearance.

But you may be quite right as mine don't have the coloration of a calico and these pics by Jean-Francois with a barbatulus look close or closer? More opinions, corrections are welcome. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Thumbnai ... barbatulus

****************************************************************************************

The skinned IDS fed yesterday for the first time since the incident. There is hope.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Richard B
Posts: 6952
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 pm
I've donated: $20.00!
My articles: 9
My images: 11
My cats species list: 37 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:47)
Spotted: 10
Location 1: on the sofa, or maybe at work?
Location 2: Warwickshire: UK
Interests: Tanganyika Catfish, African catfish, Non-loricariid sucker-catfish.
Running, drinking, eating, sci-fi, stapelids

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Richard B »

With good water & diet & the culprit removed, full recovery shouldn't be too difficult
Lou: Every young man's fantasy is to have a three-way.
Jacob: Yeah not with another fu**!ng guy!
Lou: It's still a three-way!

Hot Tub Time Machine: 2010
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you, again. I've never dealt with a fish with half the skin removed, so I was wondering if the IDS'd survive such expansive damage.

Also on a possible explanation of why the Labeo attacks seemed rather innocent or inconsequential, leading to approx. zero external damage (initially): the damage could have been almost strictly internal, i.e., the suctioning by the shark was so strong that it separated all the layers of skin all together from the flesh beneath while leaving the skin looking intact on the outside.

Is that possible? Do the Labeos produce such powerful suction or is IDS's skin is bonded rather weakly to the tissue below or both?

I remember ~7 years ago I was going to get a 2' black shark and our colleague here Linus_Cello (EDIT: or could have been Knifegill) casually mentioned it'd kill everything in the tank/pond. I wonder if the modus operandi of the black shark would be the same. Anyone?

And in general, has anyone observed anything like this? I am earnestly wondering if this is a fluke or a natural consequence. So far I can vouch for two occurrences - involving IDS and channel catfishes.
Last edited by Viktor Jarikov on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Richard B
Posts: 6952
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 pm
I've donated: $20.00!
My articles: 9
My images: 11
My cats species list: 37 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:0)
My BLogs: 2 (i:0, p:47)
Spotted: 10
Location 1: on the sofa, or maybe at work?
Location 2: Warwickshire: UK
Interests: Tanganyika Catfish, African catfish, Non-loricariid sucker-catfish.
Running, drinking, eating, sci-fi, stapelids

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Richard B »

Labeo species have quite variable mouthparts and some are 'aggressive raspers' others far less so.

The Harlequin I've had was a inquisitive bully & when it took an interest in certain species it would not leave them alone & would follow them everywhere making them stressed , but did no physical damage.

We've seen otocinclus & small ancistrus feed on the mucus coating of discus etc & these species do occur together in nature & this event is exacerbated in the confines of an aquarium.

To the best of my knowledge both your fish can be found together in the wild so this may be a 'natural parasitic' occurance not recorded from the wild but witnessed in captivity. I don't think many people actually keep your sort of Labeo Viktor, so captive occurances would be seldom seen & documented?
Lou: Every young man's fantasy is to have a three-way.
Jacob: Yeah not with another fu**!ng guy!
Lou: It's still a three-way!

Hot Tub Time Machine: 2010
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Interesting addition, Richard.

Yeah, I realize 'twas a long shot but I felt I should ask the community.

Let me ask this question then. What symptoms follow the parasitic rasping of slime? I've never experienced it with my fishes, at least I don't think so.

Is the rasping just a kind of sucking action... or gentle, soft scraping... or is it more like the abrasive action of a file (tool) on skin?

Does the skin fall off from the affected areas...
... or is the skin obviously and substantially damaged...
... or is the slime merely replaced and the skin remains as if nothing much happened (as appeared initially in my case)?

I apologize if this appears a stubborn, silly questioning but I'd like to understand and learn.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Shovelnose
Posts: 1182
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:49 am
My articles: 5
My images: 121
My catfish: 4
My cats species list: 60 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 44
Location 2: Madras (Chennai) , India
Interests: Bagrids,Erethistids,Sisorids and most native cats.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Shovelnose »

Labeo are the most aggressive cyprinids I have ever kept in the aquaria or even encountered. I haven't seen rasping, just plain tearing apart of other fish but they always let the smallest barbs alone . I had a C.chagunio that was torn apart in the belly region and there was nothing left inside by one of my Labeo dyocheilus. I still think they are among the most beautiful looking barbs ever (with my favoutire being L.angra).


From another post :
Shovelnose wrote:I haven't kept this particular species but almost all the Indian Labeo I have kept are insanely aggressive and will rip smaller fish apart. I carried two Labeo specimens from north India to my home last week and one had taken out the eye of the other in transit. Both the specimens eventually went to a friend who dropped it in a tank filled with barbs and those poor barbs now look like they belong to an undescribed genus (no caudal fins :-o ).
Balaji

Customer:Not much of a cheese shop really, is it?
Shopkeeper:Finest in the district, sir.
Customer:And what leads you to that conclusion?
Shopkeeper:Well, it's so clean.
Customer:It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese.
User avatar
Shovelnose
Posts: 1182
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:49 am
My articles: 5
My images: 121
My catfish: 4
My cats species list: 60 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 44
Location 2: Madras (Chennai) , India
Interests: Bagrids,Erethistids,Sisorids and most native cats.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Shovelnose »

This was one of the species I kept (and call Labeo cf.dyocheilus).


Image

Image

Image

Image
Balaji

Customer:Not much of a cheese shop really, is it?
Shopkeeper:Finest in the district, sir.
Customer:And what leads you to that conclusion?
Shopkeeper:Well, it's so clean.
Customer:It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese.
User avatar
Scleropages
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:26 pm
My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
Location 2: New Jersey

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Scleropages »

Labeo cyclorhynchus are among the nastiest freshwater fish I've ever kept. Certain species got a pass, but many were ruthlessly hunted down in a few of my tanks before I decided I was not going to put up with it and got rid of the shark.
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

I appreciate the help of those who chimed in. Anyone else?

The IDS has been feeding (much less than usual but nevertheless) and healing. LHS and RHS same as in the pics above:
Attachments
Left hand side
Left hand side
Right hand side
Right hand side
Right hand side
Right hand side
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
Scleropages
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:26 pm
My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
Location 2: New Jersey

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Scleropages »

Viktor, how big is that Distichodus?
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

~10". He's mellowed up a lot in large enclosures. Was aggressive in a 120 gal when it was ~5", e.g., teamed up with a 4" giant gourami to kill a 6" clown knife, bothered two 6" dats, etc.
Thebiggerthebetter
N0body Of The Goat
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:14 pm
My cats species list: 25 (i:1, k:13)
My aquaria list: 5 (i:0)
My Wishlist: 1
Spotted: 18
Location 1: Southampton
Location 2: UK
Interests: Sim racing; cycling (ideally not into the back of stationary dustbin lorries located on blind sweeping bends in wet weather, with rim brakes like chocolate teapots)

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by N0body Of The Goat »

There seems to be very few pictures/videos of adult Labeo cyclorhynchus out there, but the few that do come up, shock me in terms of how different they look to the ~7cm SL babies that sometimes arrive in fish store. There seems to be a massive variance in what is their typical adult size too, some places suggesting ~15cm SL while others talk of ~30cm SL...

If everyone is talking about the same species.

I've got six ~7-15cm SL Distichodus affinis/altus and one much larger ~25cm SL Distichodus which I currently think is a D. rostratus, but they have nothing on the teeth that Distichodus sexfasciatus and lusosso have!

Pretty amazing that the IDS has survived this shredding so far and no doubt you are at least partly responsible for that, Viktor. :)
Dreaming of a full-on 5x2x2 Zaire River rapids biotope...
Viktor Jarikov
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm
My images: 11
My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
Spotted: 4
Location 1: Naples, FL
Location 2: USA
Interests: Big freshwater catfish and Co.

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thanks, mate! Where can I see pics of your disties? I thoroughly doubt I've helped the IDS. I think it is the fish's and its Maker's credit.

On the Labeo... It's interesting to observe its interactions with tank mates. It's one tough fish or at least one with an attitude. It attacks with this suction technique a 1.5' pacu and both TSNs (1.5' and 2') every now and then. They run away skillfully not letting the Labeo attach or the Labeo is not as persistent or earnest as it was with the IDSs. Labeo's appetite, satisfied or not, makes no difference in this behavior.

It respectfully gives way to both large zungaro (2'+) and the RTC (2'). The interaction with a smaller zungaro (2'-) is kind of funny sometimes. Mostly it is the same as with the other zungaro and the RTC but the smaller zungaro is guarding its personal space more aggressively and sometimes chases the Labeo around. It runs away but without losing much dignity, sometimes even challenging the catfish to a stand off, puffing up all fins, displaying itself sidewise trying to look its biggest and meanest. Most of the time, when the catfish stops chasing it (not much, 0.5 -1 lap around a 13'x13'x4.5') and is swimming away to its place, the Labeo follows it immediately, as if chasing the zungaro back but as soon as the catfish stops and turns around, the Labeo stops too and starts passionately (really, that's the word) displaying a feeding behavior, sucking around on the bottom, as if saying "I'm just feeding, minding my own business, no threat here" while clearly it has just displayed a threat a moment ago when the cat was swimming away.

I have not seen once the Labeo to attempt the sucking thing on either zungaros or the RTC. Sometimes it looks like it wants to, it's positioning to try it but has not crossed that line yet.

The only one with no interaction so far is a 2' TSNxLeiarius. Neither one pays attention to the other.
Thebiggerthebetter
User avatar
naturalart
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:38 am
I've donated: $20.00!
My cats species list: 30 (i:1, k:1)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:1)
Spotted: 4
Location 2: Oakland, California
Interests: catfish

Re: Don't house iridescent shark catfish or channel catfish with a Harlequin shark

Post by naturalart »

Victor, maybe this will shed some light on what is going on with the group of fishes. Also, hippos exude a 'red' substance through their skin as a sunscreen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XfdTvL-0oA
Post Reply