What's up Brasilia?

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pleco22
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What's up Brasilia?

Post by pleco22 »

Hi,
well known scientist Heiko Bleher has been arrested in Manaus. Further details:
http://www.ibama.gov.br/2008/08/pesquis ... m-licenca/
I really wonder, about the strategy behind this actions. Biopiracy is really something different in my opinion.

Greetings Felix
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by husky_jim »

I just called Heiko but i cannot find him..I hope he is well....I will update you as i have news about....


They where just fish in alcohol and formol.......
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by husky_jim »

Hi guys!

We contact Heiko's secretary which had no idea about the situation and she reach Heiko's sister and we learned that they keeping Heiko (i don't know if he is still imprisoned) and they don't let him to leave the country.....

I will have more news in the afternoon as we will speak again.

I still cannot understand why they do this, taking into consideration that Heiko is probably the man with the biggest number of expeditions in the area.............
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Bas Pels »

If we would assume IBAMA aims at more than tconservation of nature, it could make sense:

The current rule is that if one would do research after Brasilian species, this must be done together with brasilian scientists, and be published in a brasilian paper

these rules will raise the citation iindex of brasilian researchers, without improving their work, giving them acces to European and American research facilities, without any cost for the Brasilian gouvernment

Smart, for Brasil.

And now Heiko broke these rules :shock:
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by MatsP »

With my synic hat on, I would explain this by "Brazil do not want (foreign) researchers to do research without their knowledge".

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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by sidguppy »

I don't envy him.....the poor bastard

if they tossed him in Sao Paolo prison between the gangmembers and the drugsrunners, he's likely to be killed or raped by HIV positive Sao Paolo street trash.
in short, that would be a death sentence.......all because he likes to study fish.
it's not like he's importing AK47's or running a gang of streetkids dealing drugs and robbing tourists.

incredible. but I can see a clear pattern emerging here. and it's not good.
Brazil has real trouble running the economy, the preservation (or rather destruction rate) of the Rainforest, the propblems with the indeginous tribes wich don't like their home burned out from under their feet, the corruption of the policeforce, the selling out of the environment to big developers, you name it.

what better to avoid unwanted vote-costing attention of the media by diverting it?
looks like they took a leave from the US and EU media wich are pretty good at this.

nationalism is also a symptom of a really screwed up society. it is also a diversion, because it creates an "Us Vs Them" mindset, wich is pretty handy when the elections come around.
politicians hate elections as a rule, cause nothing bothers them more than a bunch of arbeiter sending them home with a negative voting result.
so there's a free-for-all mentality when it comes to playing the national conscience. and showing who's boss to forgeigners is a widely used practice in countries around the globe.
like Mugabe for example. looks like Lula reads the news from Zimbabwe.

there's also another thing wich I already pointed at in another topic.
by stripping scientific research and stopping the export of tropical animals from the rainforest the place looses economical and scientific value. if it is in effect "worthless" it can be destroyed by big multinationals who own the politicians, because the only money to be made is short term profit: hardwood, soja, cattlegrazing, dambuilding; not long term goals like speciesconservation, scientific research and so on.

looks like the Brazilian government is at least as cynic as I am and ofcourse a lot more powerful

makes me sick, really. :(
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by pleco22 »

Hi,
i don't know Heiko Bleher personally, but he is born in my hometown Frankfurt/Germany. I can't believe that he will do anything like biopiracy - he ist addicted to understand nature and especially fishes. These IBAMA officials uses H. Bleher to make an example: Foreign Scientist keep out of Brasil an don't steel the knowledge whitch we are searching for! We don't need your help!

I really hope he's not in jail - but anyway - arresting scientists shows a very poor understanding of what is really on the agenda for Brasil. If there is a law against unapproved research, this law ist just stupid, to enforce this law by criminalizing foreign scientifics is a scandal.

The problem is, somebody told them that nature has material values, and that people can "own" creatures by patenting them. Now these countries act like crazy, to stop this loss of "natural capital". Unfortunately this stupid idea was not born in Brasil!

In my opinion, aquarists all over the wold owes a lot to H. Bleher an people like him, it is now time make sure, that treating people in this way goes much to far … please help to spread this discussion - thankyou

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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by racoll »

I think Heiko knows the rules better than anyone else, so I do wonder what happened here.

Strictly speaking Heiko is not a scientist, but he does publish his own ichthyological journal Aqua, featuring many articles by Brazilian scientists!

The authorities should be working WITH Heiko not against him, as his knowledge of fishes in their natural environment is second to none.

It would be a sad loss if he were imprisoned, and would alienate a lot of people.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by racoll »

Translation: Portuguese » English


Manaus (29/08/08) - Work joint investigation of IBAMA and federal police resulted in the arrest of Heiko Bleher, German researcher based in Italy, while trying to board today to Milan, Italy, Eduardo Gomes at the airport in Manaus, with samples of tissue of fish in alcohol without any environmental permit.

The researcher, which sets out projects, publications and mailings on the Internet, was being investigated for a year by IBAMA and PF that accompanied the steps of German, suspicious of the practice of biopiracy. By knowing that he would leave the country, officials of IBAMA and the police decided revistá it at the time of shipment and made the blatant transport of products of animal life without environmental permit. Heiko and a companion were arrested and driven to the office of the Federal Police of Manaus. At the headquarters of the FP, the couple's luggage was examined. Here, the police found two bags with fish fixed in formalin and alcohol.

According to the Environmental Analyst James Bessa, the Fishery Resource Center of the Superintendency of Ibama in Amazonas, all the material was seized and vai be sent to the National Institute for Research of the Amazon (INPA) for completion of expertise. "They are in most tissues of ornamental fish collected this month, the Araca rivers, the Demini River Basin and the Black River Basin Jutaí of the Upper Solimões." Were also retained expertise to a personal computer, cameras and video equipment for measuring found with the researcher.

Bessa shows that some of the seized are still unknown species of Science. The IBAMA awaits outcome of the report for drawing up the Autos of Violation by collecting and transporting material of wildlife without a license and attempting to leave the country with genetic material not approved, according to the Federal Decree 6.514/08 and 5459/05.

He warns foreign researchers to obtain license of National Research Council (CNPQ) of the Ministry of Science and Technology. If access to genetic heritage has for the purpose of conducting research with potential economic use, as bioprospecting or technological development or involve access to associated traditional knowledge, who is authorizing the Board of Management of Genetic Heritage (CGEN). If access to genetic heritage has for the purpose of conducting scientific research with potential for economic use and does not involve access to associated traditional knowledge, who is authorizing the IBAMA, through the permit system and information on Biodiversity (SISBIO).

Kezia Macedo - Ascom Supervisory IBAMA
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Mike_Noren »

Hmmm. Politics?
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by husky_jim »

Hello to all!!!!

Latest updates....

Still not able to contact Heiko but contacted some local people that knows the situation...Heiko and Natasa are held in prison without being able to contacted by phone.

They are waiting to go on trial but unfortunately the court has not 'issue' the trial date.So up to then both of them will be imprisoned!!!!

As friends of Heiko we created a petition to be send on IBAMA and Brazilian government as the least we can do for him.

http://www.freeheiko.com



Please sign the petition and spread the link among the Fish forums as it is more than URGENT!!!!!


Thansk in advance and will keep you updated,

Jim
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by apistomaster »

There are sure a lot of inconsistencies between what Brazil supposed to have announce regarding the export of scientifically undescribed Hypancistrus spp and their actions.

On one hand we have heard of arrests and fish seizures of these fish yet they seem to still be widely available, albeit at somewhat higher prices than in past year in excess of just the effects of high petrol costs could explain.

Then this story regarding Heiko Bleher. Heiko would be more likely aware than most people of the rules regarding collecting biological materials, fish and the corruption that is so deeply embedded in Latin American Countries.
As Mike Noren suggests, politics are almost certainly behind this. Heiko has been critical of Brazilian environmental policies and practices yet has always praised the Brazilian people.
It is extremely unlikely this incident is a coincidence nor due to the efforts of a diligent civil servant. It is a warning shot fired across the bow of all those who would be out spoken critics of Brazil's lack of real concern for conservation yet still dare visit Brazil and perform any science.
Being held without bail! I am sure they easily made a convincing argument that as an international explorer, Heiko and Natasha presented high flight risks. That is so much a presumption of guilt approach than most Western Common Law.

This is rather similar to the world politely ignoring Tibet by coercion of the Chinese government. The shameless cooperation of international Corporations who bend to the will of the Chinese Government in order to preserve their financial stakes in China by agreeing to remove most materials regarding Tibet from the data bases of companies providing major internet search engines, especially anything a dissident may put out on the web.
Business as usual.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by husky_jim »

apistomaster wrote:There are sure a lot of inconsistencies between what Brazil supposed to have announce regarding the export of scientifically undescribed Hypancistrus spp and their actions.

On one hand we have heard of arrests and fish seizures of these fish yet they seem to still be widely available, albeit at somewhat higher prices than in past year in excess of just the effects of high petrol costs could explain.

Then this story regarding Heiko Bleher. Heiko would be more likely aware than most people of the rules regarding collecting biological materials, fish and the corruption that is so deeply embedded in Latin American Countries.
As Mike Noren suggests, politics are almost certainly behind this. Heiko has been critical of Brazilian environmental policies and practices yet has always praised the Brazilian people.
It is extremely unlikely this incident is a coincidence nor due to the efforts of a diligent civil servant. It is a warning shot fired across the bow of all those who would be out spoken critics of Brazil's lack of real concern for conservation yet still dare visit Brazil and perform any science.
Being held without bail! I am sure they easily made a convincing argument that as an international explorer, Heiko and Natasha presented high flight risks. That is so much a presumption of guilt approach than most Western Common Law.

This is rather similar to the world politely ignoring Tibet by coercion of the Chinese government. The shameless cooperation of international Corporations who bend to the will of the Chinese Government in order to preserve their financial stakes in China by agreeing to remove most materials regarding Tibet from the data bases of companies providing major internet search engines, especially anything a dissident may put out on the web.
Business as usual.

Well said my friend..... :thumbsup:


Let's spread the petition........
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Janne »

Just because Heiko is "famous" in the hobby dont gives him immunity against Brazilian laws, or do you all think he is different then all other people and should be treated different then you or me?

He didnt have any permissions to catch, transport and export any fishes, so what wrong did the federal police made?

He is not the first to be put in jail trying to leave Manaus with fishes without permissions, it happens every year, there are some other famous people from Germany that not longer is welcomed back to Brasil too.
What makes me wonder is why Heiko didnt bother to apply for a permission, I have hard to believe they would deny him to recieve it when he have/had so good conections within the business.

It's not any critic of Heiko, it's just that we all people should be treated equal.

To compare Brazil with China is extremely low, start a political discussion without any objective reasons is to soon...wait until more confirmed facts are put on the table, now it's just silly.

Janne
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Jools »

I have to agree with Janne, let's wait for the facts to come out.

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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Dougall Stewart »

The real facts will never come out and rarely do.

Heiko is different form the average fishkeeper. He puts himself in places where no one else will go and as such runs risks.

The politics of this situation have already been stated.

Personally I would never wish this on anyone.

Our prayers are with him, Natasha and their families.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Birger »

Just because Heiko is "famous" in the hobby dont gives him immunity against Brazilian laws, or do you all think he is different then all other people and should be treated different then you or me?

He didnt have any permissions to catch, transport and export any fishes, so what wrong did the federal police made?

He is not the first to be put in jail trying to leave Manaus with fishes without permissions, it happens every year, there are some other famous people from Germany that not longer is welcomed back to Brasil too.
What makes me wonder is why Heiko didnt bother to apply for a permission, I have hard to believe they would deny him to recieve it when he have/had so good conections within the business.

It's not any critic of Heiko, it's just that we all people should be treated equal.

To compare Brazil with China is extremely low, start a political discussion without any objective reasons is to soon...wait until more confirmed facts are put on the table, now it's just silly.

Janne
Well said
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Bas Pels »

apistomaster wrote:Being held without bail!
Our (Dutch) penal system does not have a bail either. Personally I think the bails system is odd, but that is not the issue here

Of course the Brasil government will see Heiko as a high flight risk. Perhaps a year back, a Dutch childmolester was arrested in Brasil, had to leave his papers with the police and was let loose. He went to the Dutch embassy, got new papers and was on a plane before the Brasil authorities knew it :shock:

This led to questions in parliament, at cetera, but do you think Brasil will trust another high flight risk? I wouldn't
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Mike_Noren »

Just posting to point out that Bleher is NOT accused of smuggling live aquarium fish, but DNA samples.
To keep pharmaceutical companies from plundering the jungles and making billions on substances from brazilian organisms (a practice known as "biopiracy"), Brazil demands that all research be done in cooperation with Brazilian scientists, that all biological material is deposited in Brazil, and of course that the researcher buys the right permits. These demands greatly hamper biodiversity research, as biodiversity/taxonomical research does not generate billions in profits like phamaceutical research does, but regulations much like that are in place in most developing countries.

That said, I find the timing suspicious. Brazil has decided on a number of multi-billion dollar projects aiming to clear-cut and develop about one third of the amazon, and has taken a string of decisions apparently designed to eliminate the risk of environmental objections to those mega-projects. I can't help but wonder if Brazil might not also have started harassing people voicing opposition to those projects.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Yann »

MMm...

I don't want to create a debate of some sort...but I am kind of sick of the cheap shot taken on the Brasilian laws and stuff...
Regarding protectionism I think that North American Countries, Australia, European countries are also very strict regarding such topic too...

Fishing in most of these countries is survey by authorities, you have to have a license...you can not fish any type of fish, some are protected, other are limited in numbers, you can't catch fish under a given size... and I am not talking about trying to take them out of the country...then why so much hate on the brasilian government...trust me things aren't better around here...heavy pollution by industrial companies in OUR country are doing basically the same arm or even worst on our fauna still I ain't seeing nobody raising against OUR proper government
Maybe if we could start defending our own nature first instead of picking on other countries over things we are not better at dealing with our own...

Just my 2 cents...

I respect Heiko, but he knew the law... you play, you lose you pay...that is the same any where in the world

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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by racoll »

More info here and here.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Bleher Heiko »

Hi,

this is Heiko Bleher and I want to make a few comments;

1. I surely thank Husky Jim and all the Greec fantastic guys: Thank you for what you did (and are still doing) and naturally all the people who have signed the pedition (and are still doing it). I want to thank Dougall for is nice (and very correct) words, and also Larry, thank you for your wise words. But I must add, sidguppy (or whatever your name is) did hit it 100% correct - you must know Brazil well and what is going on here... or did you read my book?
I also appreciate everyone else and for Janne: I think she should read what Dougall wrote (and also some others).
And Nidal we will talk in Duisburg, but send me the invitation for my Greec conferences in December to: natashakhardina@libero.it
We still have not our cell. phones returned.

2. I did no wrong to Brazi´s law of environment - preserved fishes are NOT prohibited under o "Lei Ambiental". They also did NOT imprison me on Bio-Pirataria, as the news said, and there are many other errors in the news, like we borded in Belem (is not true, we borded in Manaus), like that we had genetic material (which is not true, just conserved fishes for identification), like there are new species envolved (which they have not even looked at but claim it already), or like they were chaseing me for over a year (a lie, just to make it more interesting for the media, as I have been here several times in between and they all knew, and came to the Amazon more than 300 times, dined several times with the president of IBAMA, flew with him to Barcelos and much more, he has my book on Amazonia, etc.,etc.). Or that from the genetic material can be extract a lot of money... what a choke, from dead small fishes? In addition: IBAMA WAS NOT involved, someone who is (very) jeaulous of my work, has adviced the Federal Police (the power of this country, they can do what they want and through anyone in prison whithout asking, without giving them the right to call an attorney, family, without any cloth hygiene, not even a pencil, or food, nor drink NOTHING). IBAMA was only informed later (actually yesterday).
And now the dead fishes are at INPA to be classified...

3. Anhow, we are still in Manaus for a few days until all is settled and I get my materials (cameras, laptop, cell-phones, etc) back. There is no hearing by the judge (if it ever will be, probably take 5 to 15 years, as ususal) and I have to be at the judges disposal at some time in the future, but that is no problem as I come so often to Brazil and can arrange it accordingly. If I do 2,3 or 10 expeditions, that is no hinder, almost better.

So my work will continue as usual and I will record as much or our global aquatic environment as long as I can and I am sure until my last day, and always (and hopefully) not before it is to late in each place (that is why I go so far and Nidal you do not believ how far I went this time up the Araca...). No one can stiop my work, as I do NOT do anything illigal, although some people want to place me in such a category, of smuggeling, bio piracy, etc. just becaus they are jeaulous, do not like me or are unable to do the same what I do and therefore want to harm me (it seems to be their only satisfaction). And there are some who want to get a rise, a medal also because they are unable to get the real criminals.... (look at sidguppy...)

Nidal and Doufgal wriote me an e-mail, and who everyone else wants,

thanks again you fantastic guys, you are real friends and fish lovers, like me...

Heiko
PS also from Natasha
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by andywoolloo »

I had read that article this morning or yesterday in practical fishkeeping. Incredible!

Good luck to you Mr. Bleher! :thumbsup:
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by sidguppy »

Good to hear you're alive and well, Heiko!

actually, no I haven't been to Brasil yet, been to other Latin American countries neighbouring Brasil, but I know how politics work.
boy, do i know....
I'm a bad tempered cynical old fart and thoroughly disappointed in my fellow man when it comes to money, power, politics or all 3 mixed up.
some folks here must have noticed this already the past few years :lol: :roll:

I hate to be right about stuff like this, but unfortunately I'm right too often for my or anyone else's taste.
wich makes me even more cynical, bad tempered etc
damn damn damn

but it's really good to hear you managed to survive all this hopefully in good health and in 1 piece.

heads up! :thumbsup: :wink:

Alex aka SG
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Richard B »

great to hear you're both ok - good news indeed.
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Janne »

Heiko wrote:I also appreciate everyone else and for Janne: I think she should read what Dougall wrote (and also some others).
I dont regret any of the words I wrote, my point was that no one should be judged before all the facts was on the table, nor Brazil nor you. So, before the debate would turned to judgements and bad politics I thought it would be better to make people think. There are no difference between famous people and common people in my view so if there are no facts backing up either part I cant take anyones positition, so if you want all of us to feel sorry for you before we knew if you break any law...I have no words?? If everything is like you said I feel sorry this happened to you and Natasha, I hope you will be compensated in some way even if that is a long shot.

If I would let the discussion continue without interference, how do you think it would develope? :idea:

And last we met I was a he and not a she :wink:

Janne
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Lutz »

Hi folks

I just want to announce, that on October, 4th, AquaNet.tv invited Heiko and several editors of german fish magazines to a discussion, which will be streamed live at 2 pm German time (CET). The live stream will be in German of couse, two or three days later we will have a repition with english subtitles.

You need not to register (but can if you want to get a reminder), its completely free.

Installation of MS Silverlight is necessary for the subtitles, we are working on it to have them on MS Mediaplayer also.

More information on www.aquanet.tv on TV-Guide / October

regards
Lutz
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Shane »

Heiko,
Glad to see all is well that ends well. This entire discussion reminds of a thread I posted to in 2005.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... ber#p70347

Never underestimate many Brazilian's fear (unfounded or not) that wily foreigners are out to steal the next big thing to come out of Amazonas. I am sure Heiko is well aware of this sensitivity. Given this widespread feeling, I can see how a few well placed whispers could lead to this situation and be rapidly taken on board by the press.

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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Bas Pels »

The sensitivity is understandable, and it might be very easy to smuggle a tiny piece of a plant out of Brasil

Plants, crustacea (shell fish), bacteria, these species might be very valuable. But is anyone aware of fish helping research?

Swordtails have been used, I admit, because their black spots are quite alike to melanoma. In fact this resaerch has developed into a cure for (guess what) prostate cancer - but not melanomas

This is a whole other matter than a toxin form a so and so plant which is a antibioticum - but can be improved. That is where the real money is, and that is where Brasil is, rightfully afraid of

I think they could spend their money better than bothering research after innocent, but interesting, fish
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Re: What's up Brasilia?

Post by Janne »

Bas Pels wrote:But is anyone aware of fish helping research?

They breed them and use some sort of "Gland" from the fish that they sell to a company that extract something from the gland used in some sort of medication for humans. I have no further information about this more then I know the breeder.

Janne
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