Corydoras schultzei

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 02 Jan 2003, 02:18

Hi!
I have seen on Ian's website a pic of Corydoras schultzei.
This Corydoras was before put in synonym with Coryodras aeneus but obviously the fish pictured in Ian's website, seem to belong to the Coryodras elegans group and except the colour ain't much looking like Corydoras aenues shape spaeking.
So here is my question: Is Coryodras schultzei hte Corydoras that we were keeping under Coryodras aeneus or not!
If not what is the origine of this "new " Coryodras
Alos Coryodras aeneus is currently a mess with so many colour form. Which one is likely to be kept under that name?
So far I ahve been to see colour morph of Coryodras aeneus, the "schultzei" like and one that look pretty close but miss the " gold line" on the side over that bronze marke!
Secondly what differences is there between Corydoras aeneus " schultzei" ( the one we tought it was schultzei) and Coryodras aeneus Peru Gold Stripe.
Cheers
Yann

Post by **Coryman** » 02 Jan 2003, 21:17

This one is a bit tricky, as you say, C. aeneus is allegedly very wide spread and vary variable in colour pattern, which is something that I cannot quite accept. The picture that I show is what I consider to be the true C. schultzi but I may be wrong.

The type specimens of C. aeneus were described from the Island of Trinidad, the nearest land mass is Venezeula with which has been separated from for something in the region of 50 million years, Those fish that were left on Trinidad evolved from what ever they looked like then to what we have now, or should I say to what was described by Gil, 1858. The fish remaining on the main South American continent in that same length of time would have been spread far and wide by all sorts of methods such as flooding, volcanic/ earth quakes and would have most certainly evolved to take advantage of the environmental conditions they foung themselves in.

Back to your questions. I personally think that the so called 'Aeneus Group' of fishes consists of at least four or even more speciec. I believe that there is some work being done at the moment to sort them out.

I have yet to see any C. aeneus specimens from Trinidad, the nearest are some wild caught specimens I have from Venezeula. http://www.corydoras.pwp.blueyonder.co. ... us_htm.htm
these are not large fish like some we see from Peru and Colombia but because they look similar they are all called C. aeneus I don't think I nave really answered your questions but untill a review of the group is completed we will have to content ourselves with such terms as 'Gold stripe' 'Peru green stripe' 'Laser green' and what ever other names the trade puts on them.

Ian

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 03 Jan 2003, 06:59

Hi Ian!

Thanks for the information.
I have several Coryodras aeneus that looks like the one you have pictured on your website
ARe these from Venezuela, if yes do they live with Corydoras venezuelus
Am I right by assuming that the corydoras you have pictured under Corydoras schultzei belongs to the elegans group!
Cheers
Yann

Post by **Coryman** » 03 Jan 2003, 23:10

As I recall they were cought from different areas. Jools caught C. venezeulanus when he was over there I am sure he can tell you if he say or caught any C. aeneus with them.

The so called C. schultzi came in with some sp cf elegans but I don't think they are quite the same body shape.

Ian

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 03 Jan 2003, 23:42

Hi Ian!

Once again ...thanks for the information!
Just one more question if I may!!!
Under what group would you put Corydoras schultzei
Cheers
Yann

Post by **Shane** » 04 Jan 2003, 00:07

Ian (and others),
I never caught anything that looked like C. aeneus in Venezuela. Just C. venezuelanus and C. venezuelanus "black." I also never saw them in the trade there either. In Colombia I have seen a C. aeneus like fish which is coming out of Leticia (Amazonas). Given the amount of time that Trinidad has been seperated from South America, it seems doubtful that C. aeneus could appear anywhere but on the island. I guess that all depends on how much you lump or split. I do not think we will ever have the answers until someone does some major Corydoras DNA studies. With Corydoras, I do not think it makes any sense to catch a fish from point A and call it a new species and then catch a fish at point B and call it a new species. The studies (and descriptions)should be done using a large amount of material collected throughout a specific drainage. Only then can we put the new species in context. C. venezuelanus is the only highland Corydoras in Venezuela and is never found with other spp. C. venezuelanus "black" can be found in the llanos with C. habrosus and C. septentrionalis.
PS In my avatar I am collecting C. venezuelanus in the Rio Guapo, Miranda State, Venezuela.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 04 Jan 2003, 08:04

Hi!

Thanks Shane for this informations!
I assume that Corydoras venezuelanus "black " is the one known in the hobby under the name Corydoras aeneus "black" or is it another species that have such colour.
Anyway very interesting!
Sure some DNA study should be made for pretty much fish and not only Corydoras. The problem on really close looking fish is to say where and when are we dealing with a new species, a subspecies or the same species. DNA is good but it has to be use in parallel to the common keys use in Ichthyology!
Cheers
Yann

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 07 May 2007, 16:17

yannfulliquet wrote:I assume that Corydoras venezuelanus "black " is the one known in the hobby under the name Corydoras aeneus "black" or is it another species that have such colour.

As you may have noticed I've been moving a lot of Corydoras around of late. This gives me the chance to sort out this issue as well. C. aeneus "black" is a bred form of C. schultzei (which we're just going to go with) it is nothing like the C. venzuelanus "black" which is actually a bit more like dark grey.

Jools

joern · Post by **joern** » 16 May 2007, 10:42

Coryman wrote:...from the Island of Trinidad, the nearest land mass is Venezeula with which has been separated from for something in the region of 50 million years

Hi,

I'm not so familiar in detail with the conditions near Trinidad...but this island is very close to the continent. How deep is the water in between ?
During glacial time sea level was about 100 to 130 meters lower than today...so during these times the tropic climate was still there...and probably a land bridge connecting the island to the continent....

Although, these about 10.000 years (or more, we had several glacial phases) may be enough to generete new, closely relates species...and makes the seperation of closely related species not even easier.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 29 May 2007, 01:49

I was looking at the schultzei entry in cat-elog, and I'm just wondering... is this guy:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... age_id=142
really a schultzei?

Post by **Coryman** » 29 May 2007, 11:08

Here is a picture of C. schultzei. The arched gold stripe can vary in intensity which gives rise to the species other common name of C. sp "Gold shoulder"

Ian

Picture courtesy Corydorasworld.com

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 29 May 2007, 12:11

Ahaaa... Do you know if that is individual or geographical variation?

Post by **Coryman** » 29 May 2007, 12:26

This species are no different to any other in regard to variation of colour pattern. populations can and will vary slightly as will individuals in a population.

Ian