L340 Spawn, need help!

[FabianGimdal]

Hi!

For the first time i got one of my plecos to breed, super happy about it. It's the L340 and i need advise on how to care for the fry. I have a tank which i grow out guppy fry until they can go to the main guppy tank and it's currently unoccupied, however it's only 30L and i don't know if that is enough for these fry. The fry tank has a fine sand substrate (ADA La plata fine grain), a piece of horn wood and no plants. A internal filter at 300L/H not air driven.

But what is most concerning to me is temperature and eventual water fluctuations. The PH is about 7.0 in the fry tank and in the pleco tank 6.6-6.8. The temperature in the fish room is 25 degrees celsius, which is the temp for the fry tank since it lacks a heater (I never chose to buy one since the guppy fry did fine at this temp) but in the pleco tank the temperature is currently at 28C. The eggs are two days old now and i've counted them to 10, however it could be more since the male is blocking them quite well.

I'm also worried about the other inhabitants, in the tank i have 8 adult L340, 2 adult L134, 3 adult L034 and 3 juvenile Sturisoma Festivum. The plecos are not my biggest concern however, but a group of 8 Pseudomugil signifier with the largest males at 4 cm in length.

So what would you do in my place, move the male and the cave right now, move the fry when it hatches or do you think they could stay in the parents tank without concern?

I also have 6 amano shrimp and 10+ Cherry shrimp.

Thanks in advance for any help and suggestions!

[stuby]

Your best bet is to use a in the tank fry saver to start or If you use the other tank you need to make sure it is the same as the parents tank. Same temp and water..... you could empty the smaller tank and refill with parents tank water so it was the same and put a heater in it to keep it about the same temperature.

HTH
Chuck

[bekateen]

First, congratulations!

I agree with Chuck. Go with the fry saver. I have three in use right now, for L201 big spot and Ancistrus and a Cory.

Good luck,
Eric

[FabianGimdal]

Hi and thank you both for the response!

I went and bought a in tank fry saver, should i put the cave with the dad in it inside the fry saver right now? I'm afraid i could miss the hatching and when i get home from work they might of left the cave and it'll be to late.

What do you think?

Do you guys have any tips on what to feed the babys?
I feed the adults mostly ''Northfin Carnivore tablets'', and sometime veggie tabs. Is veggie or carnivore preferred over the other in the early stages of life?

Thank you a lot for the help!

[stuby]

You can put the cave in the fry saver now if you want...… he very well may kick the eggs because of this. Worse case he could get upset enough to eat the eggs too...… but you are taking a chance that he may do this anyways. You will have to decide what you think is the best course of action and go with it. As far as feeding the fry.... flake, pellets, some Daphnia or whatever you feed the adults are fine...… just remember you are feeding tiny fish so you don't need much. Put some small pieces of wood in the fry saver as well and a little sand. Make sure you have plenty of oxygen in the water for the fry saver..... a air stone would be a good idea. The fry will not eat for a couple days after you don't see any eggs sack too. So don't feed to soon.

HTH
Chuck

[Jobro]

Like Chuck said, there is no need for hasty actions right now. Even once they hatched, they will stay with the dad for about 10-14 days. I would put them in the fry saver about 7 days after hatching. Start feeding on day 12-14 depending on development.

Best luck!
Johannes

[bekateen]

Yes Chuck's setup sounds perfect.
Good luck,
Eric

[stuby]

Thanks Eric and Jobro!

If it was me I would keep a eye on them..... day 3 to 5 is where it is tricky and he is more likely to kick out the eggs. Day 4 to 5 they should hatch and become wigglers. By day 14 or so they have lost most if not all the egg sack. Temp has a lot to do with all this is why I give different days for hatch and all. By day 14 remove the cave and put it in the fry saver..... if dad kicks the fry out at that time good. Put him back into the tank. But if you see any problems like empty egg shells in the tank before day 4 he is eating the eggs. Take any eggs he may kick and put them in the fry saver.... you will have to keep a eye on things and just go with whatever you think and need to do.... and no torch in the cave. Unless they have been trained that this is normal he may very well eat the eggs.

HTH
Chuck

[TwoTankAmin]

I am one who believes that some or maybe many plecos get some of the needed gut organisms by ingesting adult poop. Many folks noticed their pleco fry seemed to grow best when left in the breeder tank. Now if I have to move newly free swimming fry to a space with no poop from older fish, I will add it to the tank for the fry.

I know some people agree with the above and I am sure there are folks who do not. I have never seen any research into this for the species I keep.

I have never hesitated to shine my "torch" into a cave. In fact, I usually make at least one round a day to see what is going on inside caves. I have never lost a spawn because of this. Of course, I can only say this for the 7 various plecos I have spawned. My biggest problem has been they hide the eggs when I try to see them. Wigglers move and are easier to spot

[stuby]

I am one who believes that some or maybe many plecos get some of the needed gut organisms by ingesting adult poop. Many folks noticed their pleco fry seemed to grow best when left in the breeder tank. Now if I have to move newly free swimming fry to a space with no poop from older fish, I will add it to the tank for the fry.

I know some people agree with the above and I am sure there are folks who do not. I have never seen any research into this for the species I keep.

I have never hesitated to shine my "torch" into a cave. In fact, I usually make at least one round a day to see what is going on inside caves. I have never lost a spawn because of this. Of course, I can only say this for the 7 various plecos I have spawned. My biggest problem has been they hide the eggs when I try to see them. Wigglers move and are easier to spot

I agree Chris...… leaving the fry in the tank is always best and what I would do if I have a choice. Plecs tend to eat the eggs if they are not used to light being shined in the cave from what I have seen...… training them like you do they will not eat the eggs in my experience and yours. Now I don't really train mine and just leave well enough alone for the most part though I have trained some in the past and it works very well. I can always tell when a male is holding so unless I see a problem I don't like to interrupt.... he can raise the fry better than I can anyways, and I am lazy so I don't like to do more work! lol

Chuck

[FabianGimdal]

Hi guys and thanks for all the great input!

Some surprising and sad news today and i probably made a bad decision before i went in here.

When i came home (an hour ago) i shined my torch into the cave. I can't say they're trained for it but i do this daily, have for several months (maybe thats why they haven't spawned before). When i looked into the cave i noticed the dad was missing and the eggs hade hatched, they had small tails and we're moving around in the cave. However there only seems to be about 3-5 left, panicky looked for the dad and noticed hes inside another cave with another adult L340 right now??? There are no eggs in the cave with the two adults.

Stressed out i moved the cave with the fry to the breeder box, what should i do now? Should i place it back in the aquarium where it was or should i let it stay in the breeder?

Thanks in advance,

Fabian

[FabianGimdal]

Ok after reading i decided to move the cave with the fry inside it back to its original spot in the aquarium. The male is still in another cave with another adult L340. I'm a bit worried for the fry, they're moving in there but the Sturisoma Festivum is circling the cave, do you think they could harm the fry?

Should i try to get the father out of the cave he is in right now and get him back to the old cave?

Thanks in advance,

Fabian

[stuby]

Put the fry into the fry saver..... then put the empty cave back into the tank. Sounds like he is about to be a father again so he may or may not come back to the same cave. If he comes back he very well may eat the wiggles so you are best off with them in the fry saver at this point.

Chuck

[FabianGimdal]

Thank you Chuck!

I put the fry in the fry saver, should i put some food in there as well?

Should i also put some moss in there to give them some cover?

Fabian

[stuby]

No food for now..... when you can't see any eggs sack left and their tummies aren't yellow anymore from the egg yolk wait two days..... then start to feed. If you have some aged wood in the fry saver they can eat on that as well.

Chuck

[FabianGimdal]

Sad news, woke up, went to the fish room and the breeder box were empty. The reseller used this specific box for his pleco breeding projects, they must have somehow been able to fit between the bottom tray and the grills that let water in. Sad, i guess they won't survive in the tank since there are adult fish there who could eat them.

[cat_allergy]

Just this week I discovered L340 fry hidden between the caves, and quite big too (some close to half an inch). After tearing down the tank I managed to dump 3 fry out of a cave and into a fry box. The next day I noticed there were others in the breeder tank so I decided to release the ones in the fry box back with the adults. Given their size I'm confident they're finding food w/o problems, mainly a variety of pellets, paste food and a selection of frozen foods.
Good luck with your fish.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1267Wk ... xA0M8Z-DX-

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xb1qc ... iZE_iMsSRq

[Desauron]

Hello, what are you feeding your L340 with? how active are they? whats the temperature of the water? how often you feed them and with what?
I got L340 also, I had 5 of them and now i got 3 left, im not sure why 2 of them died.

[bekateen]

Hello, what are you feeding your L340 with? how active are they? whats the temperature of the water? how often you feed them and with what?
I got L340 also, I had 5 of them and now i got 3 left, im not sure why 2 of them died.

Hello Desauron,
I have not kept L340, but I keep L129 which is similar. I keep the babies in a fry net/fry saver basket and I feed the babies a mixture of crushed freeze-dried blood worms or crushed freeze-dried brine shrimp, and crushed spirulina flakes. As they grow I add shrimp pellets and live black worms.

Good luck.

Eric

[cavefish]

Hi Desauron,

it's cat_allergy here but forgot the password to my account so I had to register as a new user. A friend I sold some L340 youngsters to lost one of the fish to bloat. I keep mine at 26-30C and feed them a German brand of granules/paste food. Like most catfish they're nocturnal so you'll have more success spotting them out and about at night or in dim light. Having multiple caves helps them settle in and hopefully spawn in them. Feel free to pm me if you need more info/pics.

Regards

Karl