Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

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Viktor Jarikov
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Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

What species am I?
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by yellowcat »

This would be a. occidentalis, the only species found in the Volta river basin in Ghana and Burkina Faso according to my research which includes the latest (3013) study: A re-evaluation of the species-level diversity within the catfish genus Auchenoglanis (Siluriformes: Cloroteidae)-Tom Geerinckx and Emmanuel Vreven. Since this species is found in many countries throughout Africa, the study notes subtle differences based on location such as dorsal fin length and adipose fin depth for example, including other measurements which might help in possible conclusions as far as adult sizes attained in the wild. The reason I mention this is based on anecdotal information that some suggest that the Volta river variety is said to grow to much smaller sizes than other a. occidentalis specimens found elsewhere that grow to a meter in length or so as do a. wittei and a. occidentalis cf. 'bouche' and possibly others. Having kept and sold large growing auchenoglanis, a fave species, I would be very interested to find a variety I could house for life and not have to sell due to aquarium size restraints. Having previously seen this fish for sale on their site I would have ordered it had I a spare tank to house it which I currently don't. So Viktor, perhaps you could get one or two and find out if the rumors are true?
Africa: Claroteidae-parauchenoglanis ngamensis, 2-parauchenoglanis monkei, 3-auchenoglanis biscutatus, 2 notoglanidium macrostoma. Mochokinae-synodontis batensoda, 2-synodontis pardalis. South America: Pimelodids-p. blochii, 2-platysilurus mucosus. Pseudopimelodids-c.fowleri, batrochoglanis sp.? Doradidae-anadoras grypus, 2-rhinodoras dorbigny...
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Many thanks, Kirk. I'll see what I can do ;)

WetSpot currently has Auchenoglanis species from three locations - Nigerian, Volta, and Congo. I asked for pics and here is what I was sent. The photos leave much to be desired but it's a start.

So which species are the Nigerian and Congo, granted that Volta's is occidentalis?

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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by yellowcat »

After reviewing the two latest studies I have on auchenoglanis, it seems that two species exist in Nigeria, a. occidentalis and a. biscutatus. From the Congo basin another two, a. occidentalis and a. wittei. There are the obvious differences between the coloration and markings of juveniles compared to those found in adults given the same species but the three juveniles shown reflect some very interesting differences, especially the Nigerian one. Possibly a. biscutatus? Earlier studies (2010) stated that a. biscutatus was restricted to the Nile basin but later studies (2013) have them in various parts of west Africa as well, including the Niger basin, so…?
Africa: Claroteidae-parauchenoglanis ngamensis, 2-parauchenoglanis monkei, 3-auchenoglanis biscutatus, 2 notoglanidium macrostoma. Mochokinae-synodontis batensoda, 2-synodontis pardalis. South America: Pimelodids-p. blochii, 2-platysilurus mucosus. Pseudopimelodids-c.fowleri, batrochoglanis sp.? Doradidae-anadoras grypus, 2-rhinodoras dorbigny...
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

So many thanks for the teaching and the opinions, Kirk.

FWIW, I've ordered all three, one specimen each, from WetSpot.
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by yellowcat »

Hey Viktor, great, hoping you would do just that! Once you have them in your care it will be much easier to notice the subtle morphological differences among the genus as well as their colors/patterns that will emerge and change as they grow. Looking forward to you sharing your experience and study of these fishes in the future...
Africa: Claroteidae-parauchenoglanis ngamensis, 2-parauchenoglanis monkei, 3-auchenoglanis biscutatus, 2 notoglanidium macrostoma. Mochokinae-synodontis batensoda, 2-synodontis pardalis. South America: Pimelodids-p. blochii, 2-platysilurus mucosus. Pseudopimelodids-c.fowleri, batrochoglanis sp.? Doradidae-anadoras grypus, 2-rhinodoras dorbigny...
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

You must be as special as me :) I too love learning at the expense and labor of others... as you must have noted... even from this thread alone... :)

But seriously, thanks. We can do it but together. I certainly will need help from experts like you and Birger.
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Birger »

the congo fish would probably be wittei, hard to tell from the picture. The other two would be more of the undescribed as explained in the beginning of the revision.

There is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to sizes, people are quoting the revision which explains that the small sizes are from the study using smaller specimens and since larger fish were not available there are no larger sizes documented. Much of the talk of smaller sizes is wishful thinking I think.


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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

A closely related thread that discusses the WetSpot trio among other Giraffe cats: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... 16.680403/
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Tanganyikafreak »

:(( What an utter horror of a tank...
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you for your critical review. Help me improve. What is it you are having a problem with?
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Bas Pels »

What I see, and don´t like is

far, far too much fish
from all continents
without any hiding place

Both the Auchenoglanis and the Doradids need a lot of hiding, further the water the fish need is not the same. For instance, the Doradids come from soft water, the synspilum form hard. I think the Auchenoglanis need soft water too.

The Pangasius further come from rather rapid moving water.

Sometimes mixing fish from different continents is not a problem. Mixing harlequins with cardinal tetras (that is, Trigonopoma species with Ceirodon innesi) will not be a problem - the water requirements are similar, and both species are peacefull.

But when the fishes are not peacefull, chances are they will misunderstand each other, adding lots of stress to the mixture, which reduces the resitance to diseases even further. The fishes which are in wrong water will already have a reduced resistance. And the high concentration of fish will make it worse if something breaks out.

Deviding the contents of this tank over at least 3 similar tanks, according to the needs and adding cover will improve the conditions for the fishes a lot. An awfull lot.

But I might have missed something Tanganjicafreak has seen.
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Dianema »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:26 pm Thank you for your critical review. Help me improve. What is it you are having a problem with?
What is the size of that tank? I get claustrophobia just from looking at it....
can't almost see the water through the fishes.
Are they pets or for consumption? Please give them some space, this is like locking a bunch of cats in a corridor cupboard.
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Dianema wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:06 pm What is the size of that tank? I get claustrophobia just from looking at it.... can't almost see the water through the fishes. Are they pets or for consumption? Please give them some space, this is like locking a bunch of cats in a corridor cupboard.
4500 US gal, 13'x13'x4.5'. They are pets, many are rescues. We are a professional place. The water is drained to 1.5'. I am in the water catching some fish and filming as the rehoming procedure allows. Most everyone is huddled up in the farthest corner and the back wall because they are scared.

Bas Pels wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 pm What I see, and don´t like is

far, far too much fish
from all continents
without any hiding place

Both the Auchenoglanis and the Doradids need a lot of hiding, further the water the fish need is not the same. For instance, the Doradids come from soft water, the synspilum form hard. I think the Auchenoglanis need soft water too.

The Pangasius further come from rather rapid moving water.

Sometimes mixing fish from different continents is not a problem. Mixing harlequins with cardinal tetras (that is, Trigonopoma species with Ceirodon innesi) will not be a problem - the water requirements are similar, and both species are peacefull.

But when the fishes are not peacefull, chances are they will misunderstand each other, adding lots of stress to the mixture, which reduces the resitance to diseases even further. The fishes which are in wrong water will already have a reduced resistance. And the high concentration of fish will make it worse if something breaks out.

Deviding the contents of this tank over at least 3 similar tanks, according to the needs and adding cover will improve the conditions for the fishes a lot. An awfull lot.

But I might have missed something Tanganjicafreak has seen.
This 4500 gal tank is filtered by a 15,000 gal biofilter, the flow is 20,000 GPH, turnover time roughly 12 minutes. NH3 and NO2 are always firmly at zero ppm by an API liquid test kit. NO3 is negligible.

I agree that it is stocked quite heavy, actually to the max. Any more and the NH3 starts to sometimes be readable between 0 and 0.25 ppm.

I don't see a big problem with combining fish from different places. It is not ideal, agreed, but overall, it is not a big deal from my perspective. The fish are adaptable enough if extremes are avoided. Using your examples, Oxydoras niger dH range is ?-25, Auchenoglanis occidentalis ?-28, Vieja melanura 9-20, per FishBase:
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/oxydoras-niger.html
http://www.fishbase.se/summary/Auchenog ... cidentalis
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Vieja-synspila.html

From these numbers I fail to see a reason for much concern. My water GH and KH are admittedly around 8, so it could be a bit of a stretch for the Vieja, if it was wild caught. It is a rescue btw.

All 20,000 GPH come in in the tank in one direction creating areas of strong flow and quieter areas, so the fish can choose what they want now or later.

In my experience, hiding places are not needed for neither adult Auchenoglanis nor adult Doradidae except perhaps an irwini catfish. Others experience may or may not differ. If I gave them hiding places, none of them would use them except the irwini but even this guy after having reached 2' doesn't care that much about hiding.

Peace is a game of balance and constant supervision indeed. Short term (the tank has been running 4 years) I think I've found the balance. Long term, I don't know. There is room for concern indeed as this is a bit gray area (to me anyway) but I rely on the basic thing for now that if a fish feeds well and behaves as expected, I surmise the stress is either absent or negligible in the first approximation.

Can I improve the conditions for the fish a lot or an awful lot? You bet I can. On paper. In reality - no, or not yet.
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Tanganyikafreak »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:26 pm Thank you for your critical review. Help me improve. What is it you are having a problem with?
Exactly what Bas already said :d
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Tanganyikafreak wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:33 pm Exactly what Bas already said :d
I have already answered to Bas, who is by the way the only one of you three Netherland countrymen critics who provided some substance to be discussed and grow from. Anyway, my treasured friend Bas and I have had a long standing understanding of our differences and often remain in a respectful disagreement to each other.

As for your comment and that of Dianema, in my humble opinion you are just destructive and breaking the ToS with your trivial postings that convey nothing much beyond your personal feelings. This worldwide forum doesn't care to know about your feelings or mine or anyone else's.

If you have no fish-related substance to discuss in a polite, respectful, and emotion-free manner, please, refrain from posting in general and in my threads in particular.

*********************************

Back to business:

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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Tanganyikafreak »

I know that I'm a wee bit late in my reply, but this has to be the most polite way of telling a bloke to go intercourse himself.
If it wasn't so entertaining, I wouldn't have bothered to reply at all.
This is an open forum and if you can't handle the fact that someone simply is stating to agree with a previous reply, then what are we really doing here?

Thank you very much for the entertainment and I will promise to let your delicate soul be at peace with whatever thy wishes :-BD
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

I replied to Bas in a long and substantiated post, which I am yet to experience from you. Let's talk fish, not people, I propose.

What we are really doing here is learning and helping each other to grow in the hobby, while obliging by the forum ToS - no trivial posting and keep it on topic as reasonable. My humble take is, anyway...

********

The updated photos of the first fish, the one in the OP - the Volta specimen, obtained from WetSpot in 2016, supposed occidentalis. Currently at 18":
100_9056.JPG
100_9055.JPG
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Re: Auchenoglanis sp. “Giraffe Cat" Volta Wild Caught 5" ??

Post by Jools »

It's a shame to see a lack of tolerance / trolling behaviour in our friendly forum, but sure it's just an isolated incident.

Have locked it as I think this thread has run its course.

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