What do I have

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fishguy1978
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What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

I purchased two plecos from my LFS and was told that they are clown plecos. They do look like L104 Panaqolus maccus. I just want to confirm. Same fish in both pictures. I will catch them and take better.
Also I have a Farlowella sp that I'm unsure which sp it is. I know it's not acus.
Clown_Pleco2.jpg
Clown_Pleco.jpg
Farlowella_Sp.jpg
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Hi fishguy 1978,

Yes, your pleco is a clown pleco. Most are sold as (L104), but I'm told that is more often what is imported.

There's not enough of the body shown in your photo to confirm ID. But there is a key to the Farlowella species here: viewtopic.php?p=322799#p322799

Cheers, Eric
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Here are the side and belly
591CA9F8-A56A-49D7-BF59-E246B8A0862D.jpeg
DF1F52CB-579F-417C-9FF9-7281EE2F8B82.jpeg
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fishguy1978
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

bekateen wrote: 13 May 2020, 18:53 Hi fishguy 1978,

Yes, your pleco is a clown pleco. Most are sold as (L104), but I'm told that is more often what is imported.

There's not enough of the body shown in your photo to confirm ID. But there is a key to the Farlowella species here: viewtopic.php?p=322799#p322799

Cheers, Eric
Perfect, I will endeavor to interpret the list. Thank you
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Some more pictures of the clowns:
60EF87CA-66B2-437F-9412-5A4E0758CE82.jpeg
1DF03E6E-6334-45AE-A57E-61DA8F790D8C.jpeg
11C69B3B-33A0-4DB6-9C32-D44C91BF3B84.jpeg
7A665F49-65DE-476C-824C-F95AB94F1BA0.jpeg
44C63370-D453-4DA1-8B2B-EA84821DC245.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Here are some more of the Farlowella:
9E038300-1D0F-450D-9F28-EF57187E5D62.jpeg
78057A8B-13D8-46ED-8F67-0387B66F113D.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Don't have a good comparative photo from overhead to get inerorbital distance, neither a good pic of tail coloring . But estimating that your snout is relatively long, I'd say you have .

Cheers, e
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

1a. Median row of abdominal scutes incomplete; 2-5 anterior scutes present (Fig. 6b) .......2 (I get the scutes on the belly)

I don't see the odontodes on the side of the head,
2a. Breeding odontodes on side of head long, second row (Fig. 6d) of anterior lateral scutes thickened and forming a smoothly keeled ridge .....9
2b. Breeding odontodes on side of head short, second row (Fig. 6d) of anterior lateral scutes flat and smoothly keeled ridge absent ......3
Question.jpg
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

No, you're misinterpreting step 1:

1b. Median row of abdominal scutes absent (Fig. 6a) or complete (Fig. 6c); 0 – 1 anterior median scutes present .........4
Retzer & Page fig 6~2.png
Retzer & Page fig 6~2.png (109.74 KiB) Viewed 5755 times
4b. Two rows of abdominal scutes (Fig. 6a) ....19

19b. No median abdominal scute at base of pelvic fins (Fig. 6a) ......23
591CA9F8-A56A-49D7-BF59-E246B8A0862D~2.jpeg
591CA9F8-A56A-49D7-BF59-E246B8A0862D~3.jpeg
23b. Snout-mouth length/interorbital width (Fig. 2) > 1.9 in adult male; outer rays (except outermost ray) of lower caudal fin lobe darkly pigmented from fin base to tip but may be interrupted by clear ocellus bar ... (without ruler measurements, I'm estimating this)
Retzer & Page fig 2~2.png
Retzer & Page fig 2~2.png (40.83 KiB) Viewed 5743 times
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding. Do I understand this statement "Snout-mouth length/interorbital width" to mean divide the "Snout-mouth length" by the "interorbital width"?
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

:-BD Yes :-)

Your remaining choices, if SML/IOD is <=1.8, are , , , or . I'm not listing any of them on likelihood, but only that they remain in the key at this point. I know you've stated they aren't F. acus; I'll take your word for that, but so far in the key it could not be ruled out.

Regardless of step 23, your fish could also be , which is a recently described species and therefore does not appear in the key. F. yarigui differs from these other species by having the median anterior lateral row of plates diamond-shaped, instead of hexagonal.

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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

I don't think it's an F. Acus based on length of snout by comparison of images on the site.
Using the image above with the ruler the distance between snout tip and mouth is 5/8in or 0.625in, so if interorbital width (distance between eyes) is say 0.25 then SML/IOD= 2.5. Then: "23b. Snout-mouth length/interorbital width (Fig. 2) > 1.9 in adult male; outer rays (except outermost ray) of lower caudal fin lobe darkly pigmented from fin base to tip but may be interrupted by clear ocellus bar ...Farlowella vittata." I will need to check caudal fin

If IOD is 0.375(3/8) then SML/IOD= 1.666r then: Step 24 ff. Which will require a little more visual exploration of current F. sp attributes
Realistically, though, I think a narrower IOD is more likely <0.25in leading to the F. vittata determination.

People ask "What do you do for fun?" Me, "I keep fish." Perception is a 10g with neon gravel and a goldfish. I should spend my time studying for a PhD in ichthyology so I can id my fish. :))
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

fishguy1978 wrote: 14 May 2020, 17:43People ask "What do you do for fun?" Me, "I keep fish." Perception is a 10g with neon gravel and a goldfish. I should spend my time studying for a PhD in ichthyology so I can id my fish. :))
#Lifegoals! ;-)
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

@fishguy1978, in your photo above, the structures you circled are not odontodes. Those are the keels along the lateral plates. The odontodes, when present, are on the face and snout; they can look like whiskers or like fuzz along the sides, like this:
https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/im ... ge_id=2644.

Cheers, Eric

P.S., I've revised the key to the genus to include all more recent species (HERE). If you can get a better view of the sides (perfectly horizontal, not angled up or down), we can eliminate F. yarigui.

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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Ok, measured the IOD= 0.25
F. sp. tail
F. sp. tail
8884FE34-D5DC-4E0D-872C-E2A48D396BA8.jpeg
FD1130F9-BC8C-4F91-AD5F-6420AAD18025.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

More pictures:
4BD02C09-158C-4281-BE13-840DE224B565.jpeg
EEE4F1E8-0760-4550-BEFF-7019397AE56A.jpeg
C34EC147-2601-4E22-AF42-F72D1687861F.jpeg
2D655494-A889-4565-819B-EDBA15CFC00B.jpeg
E08DD1BC-18C2-47E2-9A0B-89192CA0EFB9.jpeg
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Location 1: Puget Sound
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Here is a better side shot:
F55346C2-DD94-4183-8C20-3CF91867D2BA.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

28a. Snout-mouth length/interorbital width (Fig. 2) > 1.9 in adult male; outer rays (except outermost ray) of lower caudal fin lobe darkly pigmented from fin base to tip but may be interrupted by clear ocellus bar ...Farlowella vittata

Fairly certain.
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Agreed. :-BD
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Spotted: 36
Location 1: Puget Sound
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

@bekateen thank you for your help
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Anytime. :-)
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Can you tell if I have m/f/mm/ff from these pics of my p. maccus.
B214618A-9983-4479-A341-4CD1F3A1BAFA.jpeg
6F388665-7A7D-4A59-982C-E96A2C8DBDD6.jpeg
C68C371C-4836-4054-AF33-93C97220B7DF.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Probably too young to tell. Largest fish has slight roughness along caudal peduncle and might be male, and likewise the smaller fish already has a rounded midsection - might indicate female. But I wouldn't bet on it for either fish.

See this photo comparing mature male and female: https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/im ... e_id=19895

My males get almost as fat as the females, so I can't sex them by body contour or taper.

Image

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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

I will take a look at the nether regions when I get home. Thanks
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Here are their nether regions:
29D756A8-D057-498D-B575-5FD500BEA095.jpeg
233E8F78-C191-4B66-8896-CA742B17720B.jpeg
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Yes I believe the bigger fish is male, and the smaller female. Even so, I wouldn't be 100% confident yet.... maybe 90%.

Cheers, Eric
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Well, sadly, I lost the Farlowella. I didn’t see any trauma, I have been supplementing agle tablets.
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Re: What do I have

Post by bekateen »

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully better success next time.

Regards, Eric
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Re: What do I have

Post by fishguy1978 »

Picked up another Clown.
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Did you say “CATFISH!?” I’m in.
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